Why the Bible?

[Beaudreaux]

There are many evidences that the Bible is inspired by God.

I propose to you that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Bible is inspired by God. You present none because there is none to present.

However, I don't believe the scriptures to be God's inspired Word. Jesus is the Word become Flesh. Again, reading the first chapter of the Gospel of John would clarify this for you.

If you do not believe that the Bible is God's Inspired Word, then why do you believe what you read in John about Jesus being the living Word?

 

[Beaudreaux]

If it truly were as "simple as that," then you would be able to sincerely believe anything you 'know' to be absurd.

Suppose I claim that every movement I make is the result of being pushed around by invisible control-freak badgers.

They're after you too?!?!

 

[Beaudreaux]

It was gods idea to get his children into heaven. So even if christians read the bible and do good deeds, the descision to award eternal life to them and to give them a heavenly home was not their idea. So you cant exactly say to them...'you read the bible because you want to get into heaven'....like that is what will get them there. What makes a christian go to heaven is god. That was HIS idea.

heneni

Indeed! God makes it clear in the Bible that there is nothing anyone can do to ensure a place in heaven. He decides who will go and that is not based on ANYthing they do on earth.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Scuba Pete]

If you do not believe that the Bible is God's Inspired Word, then why do you believe what you read in John about Jesus being the living Word?

What you fail to grasp, is the meaning of "revealed".

But that's "OK"... you simply don't get it and you don't understand evidence either.

 

[ayani]

Whenever I talk to Christians about....well, almost anything, they refer to the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. If you are a Christian reading this, I am curious why you selected the Bible to believe in? You were not born believing this, so there must have been a time in your life when you didn't believe the Bible was God's Word. What caused you to start believing in the Bible over other texts that claim to be holy?

actually, i was raised Christian... i was raised hearing the Bible read weekly, and never really cared. i remember once our mom announced to us in the car on the way to church that she was reading the Biblefor herself, and my sister and i found that profoundly weird.

what lead me to the Bible... was the Quran. what lead me to embrace and practice Islam devotedly was the text of the Quran, and its literary style, scope, and perspective which i found remarkable, believable and unique. i believed that this text is of and from God, and that Islam could bring me to a life of nearness to God, and inner peace.

what lead me away from Islam was the realization that, though a sincere and faithful Muslim, i was still thirsty for God. what lead me to re-consider Christ, called Isa al-Masih in the Quran, was the fruitful, simple, personal spiritual lives i saw in the Christians around me, and not in myself. after prayerfully seeking Him, and coming to believe that He is, yes, the Son of God and the One whom God wants us to follow, believing in the inspiration of the texts from which we learn about Him (the Gospels) came naturally.

noticing that this Man was quoting from everything from Genesis to Malachi lead me to understand that these texts, as well, are God-inspired, and saying true things about God, His role in human history and lives, and what He has to say to us.

so for me, coming to faith in the Bible as the word of God went Quran--Islam--Jesus of Nazareth--Gospels--Bible.

 

[Mister Emu]

Ok Scuba, the reason you follow the bible is do to the fact that you want to get into heaven and not burn in hell.

I know Scuba already answered that this is not so, but I'll add another voice here... I follow God because I love Him and He loves me, I'd follow Him hell or no.

You should talk to some Christians around here about this. Some of them (dawny, lindsey loo, mister emu) just cannot get it into their skulls that having a non-belief in Christianity is not voluntary. Of course they have to keep apparently believing this though, otherwise Christianity wouldn't make sense. But, even if we can choose which religion to truly believe in, whether or not we are right is still nothing but pure luck.

You can't have it both ways, if beliefs are involuntary, as you say you believe, then we cannot help that we believe them to be voluntary... as you put it, 'it doesn't feel right, and therefore I do not believe it;... and 'whether it feels right or not, is not up to me'...

Not according to Christianity.

No luck involved in Christian beliefs...

 

[Beaudreaux]

actually, i was raised Christian... i was raised hearing the Bible read weekly, and never really cared. i remember once our mom announced to us in the car on the way to church that she was reading the Biblefor herself, and my sister and i found that profoundly weird.

what lead me to the Bible... was the Quran. what lead me to embrace and practice Islam devotedly was the text of the Quran, and its literary style, scope, and perspective which i found remarkable, believable and unique. i believed that this text is of and from God, and that Islam could bring me to a life of nearness to God, and inner peace.

what lead me away from Islam was the realization that, though a sincere and faithful Muslim, i was still thirsty for God. what lead me to re-consider Christ, called Isa al-Masih in the Quran, was the fruitful, simple, personal spiritual lives i saw in the Christians around me, and not in myself. after prayerfully seeking Him, and coming to believe that He is, yes, the Son of God and the One whom God wants us to follow, believing in the inspiration of the texts from which we learn about Him (the Gospels) came naturally.

noticing that this Man was quoting from everything from Genesis to Malachi lead me to understand that these texts, as well, are God-inspired, and saying true things about God, His role in human history and lives, and what He has to say to us.

so for me, coming to faith in the Bible as the word of God went Quran--Islam--Jesus of Nazareth--Gospels--Bible.

A most excellent answer! Thank you. Your approach to scripture is inspirational. What a thought! To read the texts and see if they inspire you. I know many people who steadfastly believe that the Bible is God's Word and I know they have not read much of it at all.

 

[HoldemDB9]

You can't have it both ways, if beliefs are involuntary, as you say you believe, then we cannot help that we believe them to be voluntary... as you put it, 'it doesn't feel right, and therefore I do not believe it;... and 'whether it feels right or not, is not up to me'...

So just because I think your beliefs are involuntary, I shouldn't try to change your mind and convince you of what I believe is true? From what I've seen the vast majority of people on this forum (even Christians) agree that non-belief is not voluntary. What are we supposed to do? Just not talk any more? And since you are still saying that my non-belief is a choice, do you just think I'm lying when I say it is not?

No luck involved in Christian beliefs...

You should not speak for all Christians. There are plenty of Christians that believe if someone tries their best to find truth, but comes to the conclusion that Christianity is false, then that person will be punished deservedly. And also that all of the Christians who did not try very hard, but who came to the conclusion that happened to be true, will be rewarded deservedly. This means that effort has absolutely nothing at all to do with your afterlife - just sheer luck.

There are also plenty of Christians who say that people who have just as much faith as them will be punished, just because they "picked" the wrong religion. So to be "saved" you have to pick the religion that just happens to be true - once again, sheer luck.

I'm not sure what you think of these matters, but plenty (Id say most) of Christians think this way.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I know Scuba already answered that this is not so, but I'll add another voice here... I follow God because I love Him and He loves me, I'd follow Him hell or no.

Ok, so you've given a reason for why you follow God, but is this reason a choice? Do you honestly think that love is also a choice? There has to be something involuntary behind your beliefs, otherwise they are nothing but complete guesses.

 

[rstrats]

Mister Emu,

re: "...if beliefs are involuntary, as you say you believe, then we cannot help that we believe them to be voluntary..."

Are you saying that you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Ayani, hi!

Something else to consider is that we Bahai's accept and revere both Christ and Muhammad!

Best,

Bruce

 

[Beaudreaux]

What you fail to grasp, is the meaning of "revealed".

But that's "OK"... you simply don't get it and you don't understand evidence either.

Well, I thought it meant "to make something known." Can you help me grasp what I'm not grasping?

 

[Beaudreaux]

But that's "OK"... you simply don't get it and you don't understand evidence either.

Dude, no offense but how dare you! Several times in this discussion you have claimed there is evidence that the Bible is inspired by God and several times I have asked you to present ONE instance of that evidence. You give us NOTHING to consider and then claim that I don't understand the evidence?!?!?!

Look, you obviously want to believe something you are not capable of defending or even explaining. Good luck with that, but you should know that understanding and explaining your position are kind of expected in a forum called "Religious Debates".

 

[tomspug]

Whenever I talk to Christians about....well, almost anything, they refer to the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. If you are a Christian reading this, I am curious why you selected the Bible to believe in? You were not born believing this, so there must have been a time in your life when you didn't believe the Bible was God's Word. What caused you to start believing in the Bible over other texts that claim to be holy?

First, I was told that the Bible was good. Then I grew up, and I had the ability to decide for myself. And I decided that it is, very good.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi Holdem,

Just to illustrate, you think that if you were to come to the illustrated fork in the road, you would have no choice which path to take?

Of course you would have a choice. However, whether that choice is right depends on how accurate the sign was, which is something you have no way to figure out in advance. Without a rational basis, it's basically a coin flip.

Actually, it's worse than a coin flip: at least with a coin, you can be sure you have one head and one tail. The fact that someone can nail up a sign saying "to God --->" doesn't necessarily mean that there is a God at all.

I guess this makes it like a coin flip, but one where we can't tell if the coin is fair or if it has two "tails".

 

[Falvlun]

If you do not believe that the Bible is God's Inspired Word, then why do you believe what you read in John about Jesus being the living Word?

Excellent question! I too would be interested in having this answered and I didn't want the question lost to those who might not flip back a couple of pages.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

lunamoth,

I came up with a response to your drawing, but I don't think I'd be able to do it justice in a picture.

Your two roads diverging in the woods is overly simplistic, I think. The real situation is more like a large clearing with many roads branching off it and hundreds of signs plastered all over the place pointing to them. Some say "this way to God!" others say "whatever you do, don't take this path! It leads to the Devil!", all referring to the exact same paths. Then, in the middle of the clearing, there's another group of signs, some saying "take whatever path you want; they all go to the same place." and others saying "go back the way you came; none of these paths lead anywhere."

In that situation, what path do you pick? It's not enough to go by the signs, since they all say different things.

I think this is a good metaphor for the original question of this thread. So you picked the Bible to follow; why? It can't be just because it claims itself to be the truth; there are lots and lots of books that do this that Christians don't accept (as is true for anyone).

 

[Beaudreaux]

First, I was told that the Bible was good. Then I grew up, and I had the ability to decide for myself. And I decided that it is, very good.

Cool! I have a couple of follow up questions. Have you read the entire book? I understand if you haven't. It's friggin' huge!

Also, do you imagine you would have come to the same conclusion had you been raised in the middle east and told the Koran was good?

Thanks for your post.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

First, I was told that the Bible was good. Then I grew up, and I had the ability to decide for myself. And I decided that it is, very good.

All of it? There are parts I think are good, but parts I vehemently reject. Do you feel like accepting the Bible is an all-or-nothing proposition?

What I mean is that it seems like you're saying that following the Bible can be justified by the merits of the Bible as a whole. If that's the case, does that mean that we're somewhat free to judge each part of the Bible and follow or not follow it on its own individual merits?

For instance, I've got no problem with the "love thy neighbour" message, so I have no problem following the Bible in that regard (though I consider it more following my conscience than following the Bible). OTOH, I have big problems with the "slaves, obey your worldly masters" part. Do the merits of the positive parts of the Bible have any bearing on whether we should accept the more apparently negative parts?

Or does this question even apply in your mind? Do you consider everything in the Bible to be "very good"?

 

[Mister Emu]

So just because I think your beliefs are involuntary, I shouldn't try to change your mind and convince you of what I believe is true?

I was just reminding you of your own beliefs on the matter... you seemed a tad... frustrated... what with the: "can't get it into their skulls" bit

And since you are still saying that my non-belief is a choice, do you just think I'm lying when I say it is not?

Do you not remember the thread you made on this subject? Go look it up, I already answered this... several times if I recall correctly...

Also, just because you throw the word luck around, doesn't mean it is involved in Christian beliefs. Outside, what I would hazard to guess is, a tiny minority, I would say that no Christian beliefs encompasses luck as having anything to do with our eternal status...

Finally, in regards to this post, you are wrong about what most Christians believe. Numbers don't lie, assuming that most Catholics are in line with what the Church teaches, most Christians are Catholic. Not to mention the Eastern Churches, which teach that we all end up in God's love and how we react to it determines whether we experience bliss or torment.

There has to be something involuntary behind your beliefs, otherwise they are nothing but complete guesses.

False dichotomy, my beliefs, as far as self-reflection has shown, are not based on anything involuntary, neither are they "complete guesses" more 'informed assumption'

Are you saying that you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true?

I believe that beliefs are ultimately voluntary...

-I choose to accept my friend's statement that there is a storm coming tomorrow, therefore I believe a storm is coming, therefore I believe that I will need an umbrella tomorrow after work.-

While the belief that you need an umbrella for work tomorrow after work is not a conscious choice, is it ultimately founded on the choice to accept the friend's report on upcoming weather.

Not saying it is quite that simple, but the general idea is captured...