Why Mormons hate gov't welfare

[Katzpur]

A handout is a handout -- plain and simple

You lost me. How is a handout a handout when it's not a handout?

 

[Katzpur]

I should clarify, though, that what I find repugnant is the practice of making the "charity" contingent on coming to services and the like. If you want to stick an informational pamphlet in a food box, that's one thing. Making addicts sign statements of faith to stay in rehab is another.

When charity is contingent on receiving something in return, it isn't charity at all. We don't work that way. As a matter of fact, when the Tsuamni stuck Southeast Asia the day after Christmas a few years ago, we not only deilvered food and clothing to the predominently Muslim population of the affected area, we also delivered hundreds of copies of the Qur'an.

 

[Storm]

We don't work that way.

Glad to hear it.

As a matter of fact, when the Tsuamni stuck Southeast Asia the day after Christmas a few years ago, we not only deilvered food and clothing to the predominently Muslim population of the affected area, we also delivered hundreds of copies of the Qur'an.

OK, now I'm impressed. Beautifully done. :clap

 

[Eraser Salad]

We do not agree with government welfare because we believe that people should work for it. How is that a problem?

Pardon my harshness, but a lot of the people on welfare have worked harder than you ever will. "We believe people should work for it," sounds like the poster child for opinions of the privileged.

 

[Bishka]

Pardon my harshness, but a lot of the people on welfare have worked harder than you ever will. "We believe people should work for it," sounds like the poster child for opinions of the privileged.

Don't ever assume anything. Besides, that is my opinion on it and you should (as I did) defer to Kathryn's and Jonny's answers for official LDS teachings/statements on this subject.

 

[nutshell]

Pardon my harshness, but a lot of the people on welfare have worked harder than you ever will. "We believe people should work for it," sounds like the poster child for opinions of the privileged.

I don't think the question is whether people worked hard - it's if they worked for what they received from the government.

 

[Eraser Salad]

Don't ever assume anything. Besides, that is my opinion on it and you should (as I did) defer to Kathryn's and Jonny's answers for official LDS teachings/statements on this subject.

The facts and the LDS response to the facts are separate things. I'm not asking you to represent the LDS position, I'm discussing your personal understanding of the economic situation of America's poor.

I've worked part-time retail to pay for college, and I know that the men and women who've made careers out of those crappy jobs work extremely hard and receive welfare because they're not paid a living wage. Calling them lazy is incorrect, and imo immoral.

I don't think the question is whether people worked hard - it's if they worked for what they received from the government.

I didn't infer that.

 

[Bishka]

Calling them lazy is incorrect, and imo immoral.

Point out where I called them lazy, I didn't, I'm just saying that maybe in return for something they could help others out, is that a problem? You speak to me as if I'm a spoiled brat, yet you know nothing about me. I too am working my way through college with no help from the parents and 10K in debt.

So you just want free handouts without having to do anything?

 

[jonny]

Right, and since non-Mormons don't matter, it all works out.

One thought that occurs to me are the fundamentalist polygamous Mormons in Northern Arizona whose multiple wives and children live off TANF because they officially have no husband. They would be an exception, I suppose.

They're not "Mormons." They are FLDS. Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Non-Mormons do matter. I just think that the LDS Church proves that private welfare works better than government welfare.

 

[jonny]

Yeah, I did, and I got something very different out of it. He's saying that maybe you don't believe in government welfare because you have a Church that takes on that obligation.

Which is great for you, but leaves non-Mormons high and dry. How is that fair?

I don't think that non-Mormons should be left high and dry. I think most Mormons believe that people's families should take care of them before the government steps in and that local communities should provide resources before the federal government does.

Do you think that people in your local community would donate their time and money to a "community farm" or "community cannery" that exist to help feed those who are poor in your community? Do you think that those who are poor would be willing to donate their time in return for food and essential household items?

 

[jonny]

Okay, so you don't like government welfare, as conservatives you want as small a government as can be, makes sense to me. You can also take care of your own, great! Does this extend to people of your community that are not LDS? If not, why do the LDS in your community get this kind of help whereas the others have no where else to turn but to the government?

I don't think this has anything to do with Mormons being conservative. Those who are in the "Mormon culture" tend to be very skeptical of the government in general. I don't think this has anything to do with being conservative. I think these are attitudes passed down from times when the government screwed the church members over.

 

[Storm]

I don't think that non-Mormons should be left high and dry. I think most Mormons believe that people's families should take care of them before the government steps in and that local communities should provide resources before the federal government does.

And in a perfect world, that's exactly what would happen. Unfortunately, not everybody in need has a family they can turn to.

Do you think that people in your local community would donate their time and money to a "community farm" or "community cannery" that exist to help feed those who are poor in your community?

I think so, yes. Portland's pretty good about such things. I wouldn't swear to it, though.

Do you think that those who are poor would be willing to donate their time in return for food and essential household items?

Yes, but depending on how much time, they're not always able. There's another soup kitchen that runs on that principle, and they do a great job.

 

[Gentoo]

I don't think this has anything to do with Mormons being conservative. Those who are in the "Mormon culture" tend to be very skeptical of the government in general. I don't think this has anything to do with being conservative. I think these are attitudes passed down from times when the government screwed the church members over.

I was merely working off of your OP. Meant nothing by it, just typing what I was thinking...

 

[Inky]

I think that the Mormon church's charity work is admirable, but community help like this can't fully replace government assistance. The poorest families are often in trouble specifically because they don't have good connections. They don't have friends, family members or groups like this who are able or willing to help them out. Also, since we're talking about the U.S., remember that every person has a lifetime limit of five years of welfare (including people with serious disabilities and so on), so anyone getting it has to be preparing for what they'll do when it runs out; it's not a long-term supplement.

 

[Katzpur]

I think that the Mormon church's charity work is admirable, but community help like this can't fully replace government assistance. The poorest families are often in trouble specifically because they don't have good connections. They don't have friends, family members or groups like this who are able or willing to help them out. Also, since we're talking about the U.S., remember that every person has a lifetime limit of five years of welfare (including people with serious disabilities and so on), so anyone getting it has to be preparing for what they'll do when it runs out; it's not a long-term supplement.

I agree, and I really don't believe that the Church is pushing for the abolition of government welfare. We've got a great system that works, and when anyone starts bashing it, it's clear to me that they are simply uninformed. I find it amusing more than insulting.

 

[wizanda]

My mum reminded me Tithes, are not as they have always been....we didn't have wages, so food would have been the earnings given to the churches and so is that a continuation of this?
If so, do like that and the sense of community support often seen from young Mormons, volunteering to travel and help peoples....

 

[nutshell]

My mum reminded me Tithes, are not as they have always been....we didn't have wages, so food would have been the earnings given to the churches and so is that a continuation of this?
If so, do like that and the sense of community support often seen from young Mormons, volunteering to travel and help peoples....

If you're the new Messiah, why do you have to ask questions about the program? After all, you set it up through latter-day prophets.

 

[wizanda]

If you're the new Messiah, why do you have to ask questions about the program? After all, you set it up through latter-day prophets.

Don't start please, i asked hinting at, that all churches should be doing that....

Though i remember what i have been shown, it is up to God to allow or disallow....

 

[Eraser Salad]

So you just want free handouts without having to do anything?

I'm assuming you're planning on returning your social security checks.

 

[Katzpur]

My mum reminded me Tithes, are not as they have always been....we didn't have wages, so food would have been the earnings given to the churches and so is that a continuation of this?
If so, do like that and the sense of community support often seen from young Mormons, volunteering to travel and help peoples....

We tithe, but tithing money is kept entirely separate from funds that support the Church Welfare System. Tithing money goes towards a number of other things, such as the building of churches and temples, the printing of copies of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, Church Universities, etc. The Church's Welfare and Humanitarian programs are not funded by tithing.