Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[lewisnotmiller]

An atheist may see teaching a child about God as brainwashing or indoctrination, and a theist might see an atheist as not teaching about God as some kind of indoctrination, as well. I am not saying that I necessarily see it that way, but just that some might.

Wouldn't the parallel be a theist teaching their children that God exists, and an atheist teaching their children that God doesn't exist?
(rather than not teaching them about God...)

 

[ChristineES]

What about when a parent intends from the outset to raise a child to believe in a particular religion? For instance, in Catholic baptism, the parents and godparents make a public declaration that they'll do their best to raise the child to be a Catholic.

Would you say that this crosses the line from "teaching a child about God" to "indoctrination"?

Call me crazy, but no. Besides you are speaking more of indoctrination. I still say there is nothing wrong with a parent teaching their child their faith and hoping the child will remain his or her faith. That's been going on since time began. Parents always taught their children their religion for thousands of years and humanity has survived it.

 

[ChristineES]

Wouldn't the parallel be a theist teaching their children that God exists, and an atheist teaching their children that God doesn't exist?
(rather than not teaching them about God...)

When I was a child, my mother told me that "God doesn't exist". That isn't really teaching it, it was stating it (semantics, maybe?). I see the same between lesser religious parents who state to his or her child that God exists and an atheist telling his or her child that God doesn't exist. That isn't really the same as "teaching" it. And then there are parents who believe in God, yet follow no religion.

 

[ChristineES]

I think the true problem is when parents might reject a child if the child decides not to follow the same faith- that happens too often. But, in reality, I don't see that happening as much anymore, it's happening less and less.

 

[Koldo]

That's been going on since time began. Parents always taught their children their religion for thousands of years and humanity has survived it.

That in no way helps your case though. Just saying.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Call me crazy, but no. Besides you are speaking more of indoctrination.

It's not indoctrination, but it's indoctrination? I'm confused.

I still say there is nothing wrong with a parent teaching their child their faith and hoping the child will remain his or her faith. That's been going on since time began. Parents always taught their children their religion for thousands of years and humanity has survived it.

Arranged marriage has been going on for thousands of years, too. Does that make it good?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

When I was a child, my mother told me that "God doesn't exist". That isn't really teaching it, it was stating it (semantics, maybe?). I see the same between lesser religious parents who state to his or her child that God exists and an atheist telling his or her child that God doesn't exist. That isn't really the same as "teaching" it. And then there are parents who believe in God, yet follow no religion.

Yeah...I think telling kids what they should believe without context is...well...unhelpful. And if they're not old enough for the context, they're not old enough for the lesson.

 

[metis]

I have long felt and still feel that organized religion can and often does have positive effects on both the person and society.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have long felt and still feel that organized religion can and often does have positive effects on both the person and society.

I'd hypothesize that the positive effects have more to do with being taught morals, respect of elders, and a sense of community. Perhaps organised religion is a path to those, in your opinion?

 

[ChristineES]

That in no way helps your case though. Just saying.

No, I didn't think it would.

But, at the same time, I see no problem with religion. People are turning it into some kind of scapegoat for the world's problems, it appears to me. The world's problems are caused by humans- religious and non-religious, etc.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well it's more of the fitting in process. A persons religion and faith is also their place in society. People will teach their kids about their religion because it's their way of providing the child with a greater sense of purpose and belonging. When you are part of a religion you are part of a large group of people, so you have people to turn to, to talk to, to communicate who are like you and it makes it easier to go through life. Perhaps it is brainwashing, but it's not necessarily malicious.

 

[ChristineES]

Yeah...I think telling kids what they should believe without context is...well...unhelpful. And if they're not old enough for the context, they're not old enough for the lesson.

It's not really teaching kids what they should believe, at least not the way I did it. When my kids were little kids, they couldn't have possibly have understood my faith. It would be the same, at that age, as teaching about Santa Claus or watching TV and thinking the characters might be real. It isn't until they are older when they start to question things. (My kids were about 6 or 7 or so when they started to question things like that, or at least my son did).

People aren't giving children enough credit here. Except in extreme cases, children are not brainwashed. Most parents might be disappointed if their children followed a different faith than the one they follow or no faith at all, but the majority of parents would not reject their children.

 

[ChristineES]

It's not indoctrination, but it's indoctrination? I'm confused.


Arranged marriage has been going on for thousands of years, too. Does that make it good?

Sorry, I was in hurry when I wrote that- I had to take my son to his bus.

I don't think arranged marriage is the same as religion. As I said earlier, religion is becoming a scapegoat of the world's problems, as I see it.

Although there is a problem with brainwashing, I see no problem with indoctrination. I am not sure why I would need to keep my religion away from my children. I am not ashamed of it and I don't hide it from anyone else. My children, however, felt comfortable following their own path- I made sure of that in my household (although my husband does not).

 

[Koldo]

Although there is a problem with brainwashing, I see no problem with indoctrination.

Are you using the same definition as me?

'Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.' - Indoctrination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I think what Christine is saying that, Parents want to share their beliefs with their children. It's a way to bond with your child. It's not the only way, but it's a good way. The connection that a parent has with a child is more than just the Genes shared, and because of that one way parents connect with their children is sharing their religious beliefs. Also some parents believe in an afterlife (one with heaven and hell), and want their children to be in heaven with them. It's not just a worry for this life but also their childrens afterlife. They want to one day be able to sit down everyone in the family together in heaven laughing about memories and all that good stuff.

 

[ChristineES]

Are you using the same definition as me?

'Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.' - Indoctrination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Probably not. I am using indoctrination the same way we used it in the Navy. Indoctrination is the term we used to teach new people at our duty station the ropes of the command. I assumed that it is the same as with parents and religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, I didn't think it would.

But, at the same time, I see no problem with religion. People are turning it into some kind of scapegoat for the world's problems, it appears to me. The world's problems are caused by humans- religious and non-religious, etc.

I don't think that's it... at least for me, anyway. For me, it's that respect for the individual means respecting a child's right to discover his or her own path. And this hold not just for religion, but for things I think are positive: for example, I think that political engagement is a good thing, and I'd encourage my (hypothetical) children to explore the issues and learn about policies and candidates, but I wouldn't try to dictate their political affiliation.

That's the difference: it's one thing for your child to see that you've put an election sign on your lawn. It's another for you to insist that they get a lifetime membership in your political party. In the same way, it's one thing for your child to know you go to mass; it's another thing to declare to the world when he's a baby that you'll make him a Catholic for life.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think what Christine is saying that, Parents want to share their beliefs with their children. It's a way to bond with your child. It's not the only way, but it's a good way. The connection that a parent has with a child is more than just the Genes shared, and because of that one way parents connect with their children is sharing their religious beliefs.

If a parent bases the bond with their child on a shared religion, what would happen if the child decides on a different religious path?

Also some parents believe in an afterlife (one with heaven and hell), and want their children to be in heaven with them. It's not just a worry for this life but also their childrens afterlife. They want to one day be able to sit down everyone in the family together in heaven laughing about memories and all that good stuff.

A person's career or spouse can have a huge impact on their happiness if not their well-being. If a parent cares about what will happen to his child in the future, shouldn't he choose these things for his child, too? After all, the parent is the one with the greater life experience and maturity; he's more likely to make a better decision than the child... no?

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think that's it... at least for me, anyway. For me, it's that respect for the individual means respecting a child's right to discover his or her own path. And this hold not just for religion, but for things I think are positive: for example, I think that political engagement is a good thing, and I'd encourage my (hypothetical) children to explore the issues and learn about policies and candidates, but I wouldn't try to dictate their political affiliation.

That's the difference: it's one thing for your child to see that you've put an election sign on your lawn. It's another for you to insist that they get a lifetime membership in your political party. In the same way, it's one thing for your child to know you go to mass; it's another thing to declare to the world when he's a baby that you'll make him a Catholic for life.

It doesn't always work that way. For example, some Catholics do 1. Lose their faith, 2. convert to a different faith or denomination, 3. stray away from teachings. No matter what we teach children, they have their own minds and will learn to think for themselves and will question whatever they are taught. As I said, we are not giving children enough credit. I became a Christian before my mother found any faith, if I just followed what she taught me without question, I would have remained an agnostic.

 

[ChristineES]

If a parent bases the bond with their child on a shared religion, what would happen if the child decides on a different religious path?

I would hope that parents and children bond with more than just one thing.