Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[1137]

Thought I would pop back in with this little gem:

I often hear people say that teaching (or forcing) religion to (or down the throats of) children is brainwashing, and all of a sudden you have a rumble on your hands. People see brainwashing as a term suggesting that they are doing something evil and harmful, and perhaps brainwashing is not the right term. However, it simply would seem unethical and questionable to push religion (ANY religion) onto children.

The problem with forcing such a solid system upon a child is a psychological one. One of the main reasons is the connection that children have with their primary caregiver. So much rides on this relationship throughout one's entire life, it affects all relationships and one's functioning in the world. If a child sees, from an extremely young age, that their shared belief in their parents religion is so important, it may stifle future questioning out of the fear of losing that connection. Of course the reverse is also true, during adolescence when a teen rebels against their parents and becomes more influenced by their peers, it may cause extreme rifts in families if the child chooses to use this fundamental connection against the parent (for example, LaVeyan Satanism make most of its profit off of this rebellion). It can, and often does, lead to regret on one side or the other.

This is hardly the only problem. Children cannot even think abstractly or question themselves and what they know until around the age of twelve. Think of, on average, how ingrained the family religion is by age twelve. I can see why families may want this, they believe they are correct and want their kids to be locked into the religion. I don't see the hate for the term "brainwashing" here, it sounds about as unethical as the process to me.

Now, many people argue that it has to do with morals and community. Well, I do not see why eternal and supernatural punishment is needed except in the case of lazy parenting. A simply understanding of punishment will suffice just as well. Condition your kids, use reinforcement and punishment and they will learn not to do what is "wrong" simply because there is punishment. There is not need to say "now Suzie, remember if you lie to mommy and daddy you will suffer for eternity", again it seems rather unethical.

So, I guess it comes down to a choice. What seems ethical is to try and raise your child in a realistic and open world, sharing your ideas with them as they enter adolescence and allowing them to reflect and make the decision for themselves. The only reason to do otherwise is to lock in a child's mind with the religion you wish them to have, but if that is the route you choose stop getting ***** when people use the terms "brainwashing" or "unethical".

 

[ChristineES]

If teaching a child there is a God is brainwashing, then so is teaching your child that there isn't a God- depending on how you look at it. Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

If we go by what you say, what about teaching your child to say "please", "thank you", "sir and ma'am", etc? Is that brainwashing, as well?

I don't think any of us has the right to stifle what a parent teaches a child, including religion (and don't bring up abuse, that is a whole different topic) There will come a time in nearly every child's life that the child will question what the parents have taught. Despite the fact that I am a Christian and my husband says he is a Christian and my son knows my faith, he has decided for himself that he is an atheist- he is special needs, as well.

Children will learn from their parents religion, tradition, culture, manners, etc. And with a few exceptions, I see no problem with it. And what right would any of us have to tell a parent how he or she should raise his or her child?

 

[Me Myself]

You are going to teach them stuff as their caregiver, its unavoidable.

They will know about your religion and if you exclude them of it they will feel you are, of course, excluding them from it. If you treat it like sometng dark they cant know yet you are still "brainwashing" them.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

If teaching a child there is a God is brainwashing, then so is teaching your child that there isn't a God

Sure.

Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

That may well be, but doing so at a later age allows them to evaluate the matter for themselves rather than simply take their parents word for it. And since old habits die hard, having been brainwashed as children assures that even those that do question it will have a hard time rejecting it, if that were the conclusion they came to, because by then it has acquired the force of habit.

If we go by what you say, what about teaching your child to say "please", "thank you", "sir and ma'am", etc? Is that brainwashing, as well?

Basic manners and adequate are not controversial factual claims.

There will come a time in nearly every child's life that the child will question what the parents have taught.

No, not necessarily, and even so, it removes the possibility of a level playing field. Regardless of how far-fetched the religious beliefs, for most people having been taught by their parents (who they look up to, especially as a child) at an early age (making it ingrained by the time one reaches an age where one can question) creates a pretty large presumption in favor of those beliefs.

Despite the fact that I am a Christian and my husband says he is a Christian and my son knows my faith, he has decided for himself that he is an atheist

He's one of the lucky ones, then. As was I. We're the exception, not the rule.

Children will learn from their parents religion, tradition, culture, manners, etc. And with a few exceptions, I see no problem with it. And what right would any of us have to tell a parent how he or she should raise his or her child?

The fact that it seems like coercion, given the inherent power disparity between children and their parents, and looks alot like brain-washing, which is distasteful if not outright immoral.

I for one will not be teaching my children ANYTHING about religion until they are old enough to understand and evaluate the concepts involved and make a decision for themselves. There is no good reason to indoctrinate ones children, and as I, and the OP, have pointed out, some pretty good reasons not to.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

What seems ethical is to try and raise your child in a realistic and open world, sharing your ideas with them as they enter adolescence and allowing them to reflect and make the decision for themselves. The only reason to do otherwise is to lock in a child's mind with the religion you wish them to have, but if that is the route you choose stop getting ***** when people use the terms "brainwashing" or "unethical".

Well said, spot on.

 

[1137]

If teaching a child there is a God is brainwashing, then so is teaching your child that there isn't a God- depending on how you look at it. Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

If we go by what you say, what about teaching your child to say "please", "thank you", "sir and ma'am", etc? Is that brainwashing, as well?

I don't think any of us has the right to stifle what a parent teaches a child, including religion (and don't bring up abuse, that is a whole different topic) There will come a time in nearly every child's life that the child will question what the parents have taught. Despite the fact that I am a Christian and my husband says he is a Christian and my son knows my faith, he has decided for himself that he is an atheist- he is special needs, as well.

Children will learn from their parents religion, tradition, culture, manners, etc. And with a few exceptions, I see no problem with it. And what right would any of us have to tell a parent how he or she should raise his or her child?

I didn't say to teach them there is not a God either. Why even touch on the subject? Young children are not even capable of understanding that someone may believe something that is not true. Neither "God exists" or "God does not exist" is inherently true, there is no way of knowing, so why even touch the subject? I understand the idea of letting parents raise their kids how they want, but lines must be drawn. I have seen generation after generation of first graders become more aggressive, lazy, disrespectful, etc over the past 16 years. Why? Because that is the world we live in. Lazy parenting is going to lead to undisciplined children. What is it if not lazy that, instead of teaching your children realities to function in the world you simply pass it off as "God did it" or "follow rules or burn in hell" or "don't **** off God because he is vengeful". How about teaching children about the benefits of society, the limits of understanding, etc. You cannot raise your kid to grow up in a, say, Christian world they need to grow up in a confused and divided world. Why force them into one situation when they need to be able to handle many? And why create discrimination and elitism?

As far as "abuse", how about we talk about ethical vs non-ethical? How is it ethical to force something upon children that should be their own decision before they can even question? Do you know how hard it is to leave behind such teachings? Even ex-Christians who are utterly convinced Christianity is false still struggle with intense psychological scars like the fear of Hell or unworthiness or sin. It causes life long damage.

You are going to teach them stuff as their caregiver, its unavoidable.

They will know about your religion and if you exclude them of it they will feel you are, of course, excluding them from it. If you treat it like sometng dark they cant know yet you are still "brainwashing" them.

You don't need to exclude them. The inability to say "mommy thinks this" instead of "this is what is true" is a choice, plain and simple.

 

[LuisDantas]

If you want to get all technical about it, teaching one to speak in the first place is just about as "brainwashing" as it gets.

There is such a thing as brainwashing one's faith into one's children, and it must be avoided. But there is a fine line here, and acknowledging that children need to learn some values is in and of itself just plain common sense.

 

[1137]

If you want to get all technical about it, teaching one to speak in the first place is just about as "brainwashing" as it gets.

How is teaching language so a child can function in the world on par with limiting a child's view of the world before they can even question? Being able to communicate is going to help in life, unmendable fear of eternal suffering or a sense of Us vs Them is going to create barriers in life.

There is such a thing as brainwashing one's faith into one's children, and it must be avoided. But there is a fine line here, and acknowledging that children need to learn some values is in and of itself just plain common sense.

Values can be taught without religion. This is also plain common sense.

 

[ChristineES]

I have to say that some parents just might well brainwash their children, but, as far as I can tell, only a very few do. Most parents teach their children to think for themselves.

All I am trying to emphasize is that parents have a right to raise their children the way they please, outside of abuse, of course.

I kind of resent someone saying my son was "one of the lucky ones' just because he's an atheist. Are you saying that my daughter, who follows Christianity is unlucky or am I making a leap with that.

 

[LuisDantas]

How is teaching language so a child can function in the world on par with limiting a child's view of the world before they can even question?

A child will be limited by its raisers' values and beliefs. The only way to avoid it is by making a point of getting lots of additional raisers with varied viewpoints.

Being able to communicate is going to help in life, unmendable fear of eternal suffering or a sense of Us vs Them is going to create barriers in life.

Undoubtedly. And it should be avoided. If that is what you are warning about, then sure, fine, I agree.

Values can be taught without religion. This is also plain common sense.

Not for me, no it is not.

 

[ChristineES]

How is teaching language so a child can function in the world on par with limiting a child's view of the world before they can even question? Being able to communicate is going to help in life, unmendable fear of eternal suffering or a sense of Us vs Them is going to create barriers in life.



Values can be taught without religion. This is also plain common sense.

I don't see how teaching your child your religion is limiting a child's view of the world. You get the same education whether your parents follow a faith or not. Children still meet people of other faiths, other traditions, etc. Unless you keep a child away from peers then you really can't stop them from learning anything.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If teaching a child there is a God is brainwashing, then so is teaching your child that there isn't a God- depending on how you look at it. Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

l absolutely don't teach my kids 'atheism' (for want of a better description). I have tried (mostly with the older girl) to teach some understanding of diversity. We have close Christian friends, and (in one case) the fact that they don't teach their children the same is a potential issue.

I guess I see it slightly differently. Modelling of behaviour means if you are overtly religious, your kids will pick up on it, and believe that's right. It behooves ALL parents to teach their kids that the world is diverse, and they will encounter differences and how they should see those differences.

In simple terms, 1 want my girls to treat people as they come. I also try to teach them critical thinking. That's a long-term process. They aren't in a position to handle what they think about the Creation of the world. But personally I'm okay with other kids learning this as long as they are also taught that the world is diverse, to think for themselves, etc.

If we go by what you say, what about teaching your child to say "please", "thank you", "sir and ma'am", etc? Is that brainwashing, as well?

It's part of teaching empathy, recognition and respect for those around them.

I don't think any of us has the right to stifle what a parent teaches a child, including religion (and don't bring up abuse, that is a whole different topic) There will come a time in nearly every child's life that the child will question what the parents have taught. Despite the fact that I am a Christian and my husband says he is a Christian and my son knows my faith, he has decided for himself that he is an atheist- he is special needs, as well.

Children will learn from their parents religion, tradition, culture, manners, etc. And with a few exceptions, I see no problem with it. And what right would any of us have to tell a parent how he or she should raise his or her child?

I agree, but would return to my point that any good parent must teach them context...not merely what to 'think'.

Kinda sounds like that's what you try to do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

Actually, I didn't find out what my Dad's beliefs were until after he died. I was 28.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't see how teaching your child your religion is limiting a child's view of the world. You get the same education whether your parents follow a faith or not. Children still meet people of other faiths, other traditions, etc. Unless you keep a child away from peers then you really can't stop them from learning anything.

I actually disagree a bit here, Christine. Faiths and beliefs are supposed to have some effect on people and on what they teach their children, intentionally or otherwise. That is neither avoidable nor dangerour or wrong in and of itself.

I think it is in fact worse to attempt to hide one's beliefs. That would send the message that you don't trust your own judgement enough to share it. Hardly a good message to teach children...

In fact, I think it is a good thing to teach personally about as many faith and beliefs as you feel confortable about. There is not nearly as much awareness of variety of belief as there should be.

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually, I didn't find out what my Dad's beliefs were until after he died. I was 28.

That sounds almost unbelievable to me. Then again, my raisers would not let me forget or even refuse to share their beliefs.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I have to say that some parents just might well brainwash their children, but, as far as I can tell, only a very few do. Most parents teach their children to think for themselves.

Actually, the majority of religious folk teach their children their own religion, and start doing so at a young age. And I'd imagine the majority of people who are religious, belong to the same religion that their parents did (we could likely look up some figures on this if need be). Both these facts belie claims you've made on this thread.

All I am trying to emphasize is that parents have a right to raise their children the way they please, outside of abuse, of course.

No one is disputing that parents have that legal right. But whether it is a right in an ethical sense is far from obvious. As I said, it just looks like coercion, and unnecessary coercion at that.

I kind of resent someone saying my son was "one of the lucky ones' just because he's an atheist.

No, not because he's an atheist, because he managed to avail himself of his reason and independent thought and come to a conclusion of his own. As for your daughter, we likely can never say for certain because even if she tells you that she did her own personal evaluation of the matter and being Christian is the conclusion she came to, the possibility remains that she was simply unable to resist the force of habit or implicit presumption of the truth of the religion of her parents.

Are you saying that my daughter, who follows Christianity is unlucky or am I making a leap with that.

Well, I probably would say that as well, because I think anyone who follows Christianity is unlucky, but for entirely different reasons- in any case, that was not what my previous comment meant.

***

It should, however, be pointed out that in the grand scheme of things, indoctrinating ones children isn't any great or terrible evil- it is small potatoes compared to many other things. But a small potato is still a potato nonetheless (and an unnecessary one, so far as I can tell). Its also a potato that probably isn't going anywhere any time soon- but these facts don't make the OP's argument any less sound.

 

[LuisDantas]

It should, however, be pointed out that in the grand scheme of things, indoctrinating ones children isn't any great or terrible evil- it is small potatoes compared to many other things. But a small potato is still a potato nonetheless (and an unnecessary one, so far as I can tell). Its also a potato that probably isn't going anywhere any time soon- but these facts don't make the OP's argument any less sound.

It can actually be a very big potato. It was in my case. Not everyone is as respectful with their children as Christine is.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

If you want to get all technical about it, teaching one to speak in the first place is just about as "brainwashing" as it gets.

:areyoucra

But there is a fine line here, and acknowledging that children need to learn some values is in and of itself just plain common sense.

Not sure what that has to do with indoctrinating ones children with your religious beliefs... Not only are values not necessarily related to any religious beliefs, most religious ethics are pernicious, either explicitly or implicitly. The world would be a much better place if children stopped learning morality from religion.

It can actually be a very big potato. It was in my case. Not everyone is as respectful with their children as Christine is.

As big as rape? Murder? Theft, even? That's more what I had in mind- clearly there's a spectrum, and some cases are more egregious than others; but even at its worst, brainwashing ones children probably is nowhere near as morally wrong as rape or murder.

 

[ChristineES]

For the record, I didn't actually teach my children my faith, they just know that I followed it. My daughter became a Christian on her own and my son decided there was no God on his own. But where do we draw the line? Just teaching religion? What about teaching values, different cultures will have some different values. I could go on and on

I never meant to say that anyone teaches "atheism" but I can see why people would see it that way. I was trying to focus on different people: An atheist may see teaching a child about God as brainwashing or indoctrination, and a theist might see an atheist as not teaching about God as some kind of indoctrination, as well. I am not saying that I necessarily see it that way, but just that some might.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

If teaching a child there is a God is brainwashing, then so is teaching your child that there isn't a God- depending on how you look at it. Children are going to learn the religion their parents (if they follow one) are following even if the parents don't teach it to them.

If we go by what you say, what about teaching your child to say "please", "thank you", "sir and ma'am", etc? Is that brainwashing, as well?

I don't think any of us has the right to stifle what a parent teaches a child, including religion (and don't bring up abuse, that is a whole different topic) There will come a time in nearly every child's life that the child will question what the parents have taught. Despite the fact that I am a Christian and my husband says he is a Christian and my son knows my faith, he has decided for himself that he is an atheist- he is special needs, as well.

Children will learn from their parents religion, tradition, culture, manners, etc. And with a few exceptions, I see no problem with it. And what right would any of us have to tell a parent how he or she should raise his or her child?

Teaching them skills and social functions are different than religion. Religion is not essential. We have learned manners as we are a social species and therefore require complex rules in our society to maintain order. Teaching morals is an innately good and functional purpose. Its possible the religion developed from this as a concequence creating axiom to keep people in line.

Its common practice to make up stories to get children to behave. The boogyman is one for example. What makes the boogyman any different than Satan ?