Why Jesus is a God

[syo]

1. Where specifically?

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2. Where does it say he is God The Son or God our Son specifically?
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3. Why specifically does the verses not deny that Jesus is not Lord God therefore not the only true God?
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4. Can the commandments of God specifically Deu 6:4, not be understood without the New Testament?

In all the New Testament that Jesus speaks of God he says ''Father'' and ''my Father''. he says he is the Son. He says that someone should be baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. In the prayer which taught us it begins ''Father who are in heaven''. The keyword is ''my father''.

 

[syo]

Because all five versions of Jesus ─ Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's, Luke's and John's ─ never once claim to be God, and instead expressly deny that they're God ─ as a sample, try:

Paul, 1 Corinthians 8: 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Paul, Philippians 2: 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:28 [...] I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
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And there are more where those came from.

Of course, you're free to believe that Jesus is God if you wish; but I don't see how you can say the NT supports that view. Bear in mind that neither Jesus nor his followers had ever heard of the Trinity doctrine, which wasn't invented till the 4th century CE.

The Trinity exists in the NT. Jesus says clearly the three persons of the trinity in the baptize ceremony. In the name of father son holy spirit. the word ''trinity'' was later added for academic reasons.

 

[syo]

To me, John 10:36 is a reason Jesus is NOT God.
Jesus answers as to who he is and does NOT say he is his own God.
Plus, I find at Psalms 90:2 that God had NO beginning.
So, God was ' before ' any beginning or start.
Whereas, at John 1 Jesus was " IN" the beginning, and NOT ' before ' the beginning.
Revelation 3:14 says about pre-human heavenly Jesus being the 'beginning' of the creation by God (a created Jesus )
So, pre-human Jesus was NOT before the beginning as his God was before the beginning.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

I think you reject the Trinity. I am a trinitarian though. In the OT God promises to send his Son. Isn't the Son God?

 

[blü 2]

The Trinity exists in the NT. Jesus says clearly the three persons of the trinity in the baptize ceremony. In the name of father son holy spirit. the word ''trinity'' was later added for academic reasons.

With respect, no he doesn't. Any mention of Father, Son and Ghost adjacently in the NT is coincidence, and certainly nowhere implies that Jesus is God (simply the Son) or that the Ghost is God (simply the office boy). The Trinity doctrine is a very specific doctrine, deliberately designed in the 4th century to overcome the problem of making Jesus God (despite his many denials) without ending up with more than one God. Christian theologians say the doctrine's "a mystery in the strict sense" ─ which they define as something "that cannot be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed." Think that through and you'll see a "mystery in the strict sense" is something that makes no sense.

As I said, nowhere in the NT does Jesus claim to be God, and on a number more occasions than the ones I mentioned he says outright that he's NOT God. Anyone who wants to call the NT in aid to show that Jesus is nonetheless God will, in the process of doing so, show that Jesus is a persistent and methodical liar and deceiver, no?

 

[frbnsn]

Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

May not He be a good person?
Why not is He a human commissioned by god?

 

[stvdv]

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Some define God as omnipotent to start with

Some Christians claim God created earth in a few days

So could Jesus change gravitation on earth from 9.81 to 6? Then He gets pretty close to God I think

It depends on how you define "God" I think,before you can make any sane claim about "Jesus = God"

If you give me the True Definition of God and of Jesus, then I can tell you if "Jesus = God"

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Jesus is God, but not THE God. Because I'm human my son is human.
Because Jesus Father is God, Jesus also is God.

There is only one God, and God is a Spirit. John 4:24 God said there was no God before him, and neither would there be one after him.

God didn't turn into a man. He simply made himself, a human body to dwell in, and sacrifice for man's sin. He was the Father of that body, so he called it his son. (So, the Father is the Spirit, and the son is the flesh) The eternal Spirit could not die, but the fleshly body he was dwelling in could. So it was God himself that came down and shed his blood for our sins.

 

[syo]

With respect, no he doesn't. Any mention of Father, Son and Ghost adjacently in the NT is coincidence, and certainly nowhere implies that Jesus is God (simply the Son) or that the Ghost is God (simply the office boy). The Trinity doctrine is a very specific doctrine, deliberately designed in the 4th century to overcome the problem of making Jesus God (despite his many denials) without ending up with more than one God. Christian theologians say the doctrine's "a mystery in the strict sense" ─ which they define as something "that cannot be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason once it has been revealed." Think that through and you'll see a "mystery in the strict sense" is something that makes no sense.

As I said, nowhere in the NT does Jesus claim to be God, and on a number more occasions than the ones I mentioned he says outright that he's NOT God. Anyone who wants to call the NT in aid to show that Jesus is nonetheless God will, in the process of doing so, show that Jesus is a persistent and methodical liar and deceiver, no?

The trinity makes perfect sense. And there is no coincidence. Baptism is for salvation. Do you think they take baptism lighthearted?

 

[syo]

May not He be a good person?
Why not is He a human commissioned by god?

No way. Humans can't complete God. Humans are all equal below God.

 

[syo]

Some define God as omnipotent to start with

Some Christians claim God created earth in a few days

So could Jesus change gravitation on earth from 9.81 to 6? Then He gets pretty close to God I think

It depends on how you define "God" I think,before you can make any sane claim about "Jesus = God"

If you give me the True Definition of God and of Jesus, then I can tell you if "Jesus = God"

I can give you definitions according to Orthodoxy. God is the immortal being who creates everything. God thus is a Father. Now, between the father and the creations there is a medium who connects all. That's the Son. The father wants to save the creations so he gives orders. The Son takes the orders and applies them to the creations by showing the way. The father is invisible, while the son is visible and he is the communicator.

 

[Seek truth]

Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Could you give me 1 verse from the Bible where is being said that Jesus is god?

 

[syo]

Could you give me 1 verse from the Bible where is being said that Jesus is god?

When jesus was baptized, god said that's my son.

 

[stvdv]

I can give you definitions according to Orthodoxy. God is the immortal being who creates everything. God thus is a Father. Now, between the father and the creations there is a medium who connects all. That's the Son. The father wants to save the creations so he gives orders. The Son takes the orders and applies them to the creations by showing the way. The father is invisible, while the son is visible and he is the communicator.

Thank you, very clear.

Then I would say:
"Jesus = God"
"God <> Jesus"

 

[Iymus]

He says that someone should be baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

1. Both the Holy Spirit and Son came in the Father's name /authority, because only his will alone be done, because only he is Lord God and the only true God.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

2.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

3. A lesser lord is not Lord God who is our God and Lord of Heaven and Earth.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

[syo]

1. Both the Holy Spirit and Son came in the Father's name /authority, because only his will alone be done, because only he is Lord God and the only true God.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

2.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

3. A lesser lord is not Lord God who is our God and Lord of Heaven and Earth.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Umm... the son and the holy spirit aren't creations like we are. They are god.

 

[Iymus]

When jesus was baptized, god said that's my son.

1. his only begotten son.

But references in Genesis and Job of God having many sons

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
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2. Issac was Abraham's only begotten son but references of Abraham having many sons also

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, .
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3. No son should be used to deny a Specific God.

 

[syo]

1. his only begotten son.

But references in Genesis and Job of God having many sons

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
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2. Issac was Abraham's only begotten son but references of Abraham having many sons also

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, .
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3. No son should be used to deny a Specific God.

I don't deny god. I just say there is the Son, and the Son is god too. The son wasn't built. The father gave birth to the son/god.

 

[Iymus]

Umm... the son and the holy spirit aren't creations like we are. They are god.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[syo]

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

They aren't independent gods. Father gave birth to son, and the holy spirit comes from father.
You and I are built.
Can you see the difference?

 

[Kenny]

As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthian 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." That is, Jesus is the maker of the material universe, but Jesus is not God.

As I quoted other versus, you might have to synthesize your position. Only God creates, ergo Jesus is God.

Equally, as John 1:2 puts it, He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him. NOnce again, Jesus is the maker of the material universe but Jesus isn't God.

Again... it is very specific... And the Word WAS God. Can't bypass the statement

As you know, both Paul and the author of John were Gnostic Christians.

No, you are wrong on this one.

"More specifically, the heresy taking root in Colosse was a form of gnosticism, which taught (among other things) that humans could transcend evil and the corruptions of the world through asceticism and their own strength of will. Gnostics believed that they could essentially ignore the world and follow their own desires and impulses. Paul wrote to the Colossian church to warn them away from error and reiterate the importance of the Christian ethic."

Letters to the Church: Paul's Epistle to the Colossians - Bible Gateway Blog

As you also know, the author of Mark holds no such views.

Again.... no

"
The fact that Mark is putting Jesus in the place of Yahweh is confirmed when we consider the second OT citation from Is 40:3 :

Mark 1:3 (citing Is 40:3 ): “the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.’”

Is 40:3 : A voice cries: “In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.”

Notice again that in the original context of Is 40:3 , it is the LORD who is coming. And Mark applies this verse to Jesus. Moreover, notice that Mark offers another Christological change to his citation. Originally, Is 40:3 read “make straight…a highway for our God” but Mark changes it to “make his paths straight.”

Once again, Mark uses this little textual change to show that the coming of Yahweh, promised in Is 40:3 , will be fulfilled by another coming in God’s place. And that person is Jesus.

In the end, Mark’s use of these OT passages is rather stunning. Rather than seeing Jesus as merely human, Mark wastes no time presenting Jesus as the fulfillment of Yahweh’s promise to come visit his people.

Thus, for Mark, Jesus is God."

Does the Gospel of Mark Present Jesus as God?

Yet despite this diversity of kinds of Jesus, none of the five major versions ever claims to be God, and all five expressly deny it.

Again... no.

I understand that you don't agree. I won't go through every scripture and explain because I believe that you are already set in your position thus we would be just spinning our wheels.

I respect your viewpoint... just don't agree with it.