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Why Jesus is a God

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
This verse clearly says that there is no human God.
No. It doesn't. Would you like it in every translation?

I have a question, doesn't God have the power to take the body of a man?
Angels can do it, but God not?
He could, but He has not, and would certainly not ask people to worship Him as a man. What is it about the quoted verse that escapes you? The quote says 'Nor is He the son of man', which is exactly what Jesus called himself.
 
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Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
Jesus is God, but not THE God. Because I'm human my son is human.
Because Jesus Father is God, Jesus also is God.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If the creator created man to be an medium for god to come to god, then I wouldn't limit god what he can do despite ones feelings otherwise.
In the understanding of the revelation given to us, It isn't that I limit God... it is what God determined that was going to be regardless of one's personal feelings.

It makes sense to be human because as god one cannot relate. If Christ was god, it would be the same. But if god made Christ human without consequence of the flesh, he would still be a savior given his devotion to god.
There is a truth to what you are saying -- applying it to the understanding of the New Testament, God could not relate.. but in that The Word portion of God became fully human He can now relate.

That's the beauty of it. Now the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob fully relates to mankind.

He also fulfilled His standard in that He said in Genesis that man is the legal entrance for operating in this world. He now has fulfilled His own statement that as man, Jesus has full authority as both God and man.

His faith in God let him accept his father's plan. He "said yes" and did what his father said. People then look to him as Messiah because that was the only way they were told they can come to the father: through christ.

Yes... Agreed... as man he did do that.

Making him god changes the who scenario where Christ as incarnation/medium means nothing.

It's like mistaking Christ for god because Christ used similar words of his father because of his faith in him.

It's an insult. I'm sure given Jesus day it would be as well.

Not in context of what was written in the Gospels and in the Epistles.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There aren't temples dedicated to the Father as temple of the Father, or simply temple of the God. Or temple of Yhvh.
It's a strong indicator that Jesus was an unknown off the radar, or not really interesting enough to establish temples in his name.
 

Iymus

Active Member
Jesus is God, but not THE God. Because I'm human my son is human.
Because Jesus Father is God, Jesus also is God.

"Deu 6:4" is not speaking about a son; therefore any son is not our God; therefore any son is not Lord God the only true God.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In the understanding of the revelation given to us, It isn't that I limit God... it is what God determined that was going to be regardless of one's personal feelings.

When I read the bible, I pretty much read as is since I don't have a personal connection with it to see it any different.

So, when I read "christ is an intermediary to god" and "incarnation" that's pretty much the bare bones of it. Intermediary between a middle man (to put it bluntly) and incarnation being flesh.

I'm not sure how to read it or take it any other way?

There is a truth to what you are saying -- applying it to the understanding of the New Testament, God could not relate.. but in that The Word portion of God became fully human He can now relate.

"God became man" isn't the same as "christ is the medium between god and man".

Unless there is a lot of mysticism involved, how do you relate the source to the medium of it?

And. Why would one be wrong and the other right? (It doesn't change the context of the message it just makes it more distinct-to the point).

I guess another way to put it I heard a while ago is christ is "the first Adam" before they sinned.

That's the beauty of it. Now the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob fully relates to mankind.

He also fulfilled His standard in that He said in Genesis that man is the legal entrance for operating in this world. He now has fulfilled His own statement that as man, Jesus has full authority as both God and man.

Why define human beings by their sin when jesus coming down as a human to bring christians to his father doesn't need to have sin in order to fulfill his father's mission?

Not in context of what was written in the Gospels and in the Epistles.

When you call christ god and christ never refer to himself as god but a medium to him (and other common pointers) it's an insult to christ and to his father.

But, my question is, though, if the creator sent the human jesus to be his/creator's intermediary between god and man, why is that wrong?

How does jesus being human make him "like us"?

I'd assume because he is like us (without the sin like Adam) and he died and you "see his blood" christians will know that since jesus went back to his father, so will they.

But why does he need to "be" god to do this?
I know it's "because he said..." but that's not explaining why one is right or wrong
 

syo

Well-Known Member
1. ok. seems you prefer not to go into the mechanics of the old and new testament.



2. Messengers and servants receiving authority of God and doing his will.

Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;



3. whether flawless or imperfect; a man is not our God. Adam was flawless at one point.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.



4. Yet do we love him and are we his friends following his commands?

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



5a. A lesser lord is not Lord God

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


5b. neither is the Son Lord God himself.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


5c.
Neither is our lord "a lesser lord" the only Lord God; but his God and Father is.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.


5d.
Lord God is the God of the Old Testament and should be of the New Testament who his son declared.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


5e.
Most Importantly, The Duty "Mission" of Men and The Will of God are not of The Son.

1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


5f. Also all things are of God himself first and foremost ; and God himself is the Head or Lord of Christ therefore above all.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Thank you for the quotes of the Bible. But the thing is, the Bible is being interpreted differently. These quotes may show clear that Jesus is the Son. Jesus makes distinction of God/Father and God/Son. Jesus is not God/Father. He is God/Son. The quotes don't deny that. Also, Jesus has a dual role. The role of God/Son and the role of the human/Christ.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

I must be a God. Who else is going to complete the word of God, if not myself?

Also, I'm flawless. My mother sees this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than me?

Lastly, the message I bring (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason I'm NOT God?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

To me, John 10:36 is a reason Jesus is NOT God.
Jesus answers as to who he is and does NOT say he is his own God.
Plus, I find at Psalms 90:2 that God had NO beginning.
So, God was ' before ' any beginning or start.
Whereas, at John 1 Jesus was " IN" the beginning, and NOT ' before ' the beginning.
Revelation 3:14 says about pre-human heavenly Jesus being the 'beginning' of the creation by God (a created Jesus )
So, pre-human Jesus was NOT before the beginning as his God was before the beginning.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
 

Iymus

Active Member
Jesus makes distinction of God/Father and God/Son.

1. Where specifically?

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He is God/Son.

2. Where does it say he is God The Son or God our Son specifically?
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He is God/Son. The quotes don't deny that.

3. Why specifically does the verses not deny that Jesus is not Lord God therefore not the only true God?
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4. Can the commandments of God specifically Deu 6:4, not be understood without the New Testament?
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Because god appointed Jesus to be his intermediary. Nothing more complicated but him saying he does his father's will not his own.

I don't know why Christians want to call him god as if god can't make a person to speak on his behalf. Kind of limiting god.

It also seems like an insult to Christ and his father to say Christ is god.

Other than it being both blunt and contextual in scripture, a Christian would have to challenge his thinking to be open that god may make it clearer than what they see now.

I'm not sure why Jesus needs to be god in order to go through him as a savior. Was god wrong.

Yes I am not sure I agree with a belief in Jesus yet but I could see accepting a Messiah type interpretation of Jesus . The bible says there is only one God...........
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?
Because all five versions of Jesus ─ Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's, Luke's and John's ─ never once claim to be God, and instead expressly deny that they're God ─ as a sample, try:

Paul, 1 Corinthians 8: 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Paul, Philippians 2: 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:28 [...] I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

And there are more where those came from.

Of course, you're free to believe that Jesus is God if you wish; but I don't see how you can say the NT supports that view. Bear in mind that neither Jesus nor his followers had ever heard of the Trinity doctrine, which wasn't invented till the 4th century CE.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
When I read the bible, I pretty much read as is since I don't have a personal connection with it to see it any different.

So, when I read "christ is an intermediary to god" and "incarnation" that's pretty much the bare bones of it. Intermediary between a middle man (to put it bluntly) and incarnation being flesh.

I'm not sure how to read it or take it any other way?
It is getting a little too large a subject so I thought we would narrow it down since it is the foundation.

What you are reading is correct... the problem is that it is at the expense of all other scriptures.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

Phil 2:5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

John 20:28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

There are many more...

I'm not asking you to believe as I do.. all I'm saying is that you are committing those scriptures that declare that He is God. I agree with the position, as you say, that Jesus is our mediator.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yes I am not sure I agree with a belief in Jesus yet but I could see accepting a Messiah type interpretation of Jesus . The bible says there is only one God...........

Yeah. It's a pretty simple understanding of creator, jesus, and spirit but because it is a personal relationship and each person comes about it differently, they see something different than what I see from a non-believer/objective point of view.

I wouldn't knock it if you want to believe in jesus. I'd just keep in mind, personally, that if you're going off the bible, it's creator first and jesus second.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Yeah. It's a pretty simple understanding of creator, jesus, and spirit but because it is a personal relationship and each person comes about it differently, they see something different than what I see from a non-believer/objective point of view.

I wouldn't knock it if you want to believe in jesus. I'd just keep in mind, personally, that if you're going off the bible, it's creator first and jesus second.

I do not worship Jesus because he is not God.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I do not worship Jesus because he is not God.

Not a lot of people believe jesus is god/creator. That's just the majority but each person sees it differently based on their personal experiences and understanding of the word god, spirit, human, human nature, and even the word creator.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Joh 1:1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.
As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthian 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." That is, Jesus is the maker of the material universe, but Jesus is not God.

Equally, as John 1:2 puts it, He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him. NOnce again, Jesus is the maker of the material universe but Jesus isn't God.

As you know, both Paul and the author of John were Gnostic Christians. In that view, Jesus pre-exists in heaven with God, as the demiurge, the one who indue course creates the material universe because God is absolutely pure spirit and therefore would never do such a thing. And having done it, Jesus / the demiurge mediates between God and Man. This is also why Jesus says (John 8:58) "Before Abraham was, I am."

As you also know, the author of Mark holds no such views. His Jesus is a straightforward Jew until John the Baptist washes his sins away, and at that point God adopts him as his, just as he'd adopted David as his son (Psalm 2:7 and elsewhere; and see Acts 13:33). The authors of Matthew and of Luke held no such views either ─ their Jesuses had God's DNA, or at least God's Y-chromosome, but they didn't pre-exist.

Yet despite this diversity of kinds of Jesus, none of the five major versions ever claims to be God, and all five expressly deny it. Just to remind you of what you already know:

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;"

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

and that's by no means all.

I freely acknowledge your right to believe as seems best to you. I just point out that the text of the NT doesn't support that idea. If the idea existed in early Christianity, it didn't find its way into the gospels, and it didn't become church doctrine till the Trinity doctrine was invented in the 4th century CE.
 

Iymus

Active Member
1. 1 Cor 8:6 is a great verse because it shows God authorized creation and not Jesus

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
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2.
God himself is still Head of Christ after his Resurrection and being declared Son of God. Paul preached after the Resurrection.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
----------------

3.
A lesser lord cannot be God therefore Jesus specifically is not Lord God who is the Lord of Heaven and Earth.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
----------------

4.
Lord God is the specific God who is the only true God who alone made everything of his will and authorization / authority. Lord God is the God of Abraham and his descendants mentioned in Deu 6:4.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
 
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syo

Well-Known Member
I must be a God. Who else is going to complete the word of God, if not myself?

Also, I'm flawless. My mother sees this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than me?

Lastly, the message I bring (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason I'm NOT God?
Haha!!! Maybe my reasons I think Jesus is God are silly!
But I really believe them :D
 
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