Why Jesus is a God

[Iymus]

They aren't independent gods. Father gave birth to son, and the holy spirit comes from father.
You and I are built.
Can you see the difference?

1. I see no difference which would deny Lord God our Father in being the only true God himself.
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2. Lord God who is Most High possessed all of Creation himself.

Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
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3. God is himself first and foremost apart from any other.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[syo]

1. I see no difference which would deny Lord God our Father in being the only true God himself.
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2. Lord God who is Most High possessed all of Creation himself.

Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
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3. God is himself first and foremost apart from any other.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

I simply say the Son and holy spirit are Not built. their essence is god.

 

[Iymus]

I simply say the Son and holy spirit are Not built. their essence is god.

so the essence of Creation is not of God?

 

[syo]

so the essence of Creation is not of God?

Son and holy spirit essence is god.

You and I essence is built from god.

Can you see the difference?

Son and hs are immortal.

You and I are mortals.

 

[Iymus]

Son and holy spirit essence is god.

You and I essence is built from god.

Can you see the difference?

Son and hs are immortal.

You and I are mortals.

Semantics.
Life has an Origination or Source of whom all things "to include the Son and Holy Spirit" are of.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

 

[1213]

...
My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Jesus says there is only one true God, and the God is greater than him.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Paul confirms that.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

According to the Bible, Jesus is the temple of God, God lives in Jesus. (Also in disciples of Jesus).

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. …
John 14:10-14

But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11

Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9

Bible says also that Jesus is the image of God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation…
Colossians 1:14

 

[Seek truth]

When jesus was baptized, god said that's my son.

Could you give me the reference? So I can look it up in the Bible?

 

[PearlSeeker]

In all the New Testament that Jesus speaks of God he says ''Father'' and ''my Father''. he says he is the Son. He says that someone should be baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. In the prayer which taught us it begins ''Father who are in heaven''. The keyword is ''my father''.

No, the prayer is "Our Father..."

Yes, there is the baptism formula. What does actually mean to be baptized in someone's name? Why would this mean all three mentioned are God?

I was also taught Trinity doctrine and I respect Church's authority but I don't follow blindly. For me some things are not so cut and dried. In practice it doesn't make much difference.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Only God creates, ergo Jesus is God.

We (humans) also create.

 

[PearlSeeker]

In the OT God promises to send his Son. Isn't the Son God?

It's a promise to the house of David e.g. Salomon was also called son of God.

Baptism is for salvation.

Not necessarily e.g. The criminal on the right cross.

 

[blü 2]

The trinity makes perfect sense. And there is no coincidence. Baptism is for salvation. Do you think they take baptism lighthearted?

As I said, the fact that the Trinity makes no sense is acknowledged by the churches. What else does "a mystery in the strict sense" mean?

Think about it. If you address Jesus, you address 100% of God. If you address the Father you address 100% of God. If you address the Ghost you address 100% of God. 100% + 100% + 100% = 300% = 3 gods. But this is expressly denied.

And consider the problems:

Why did each of the five versions of Jesus, Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's, Luke's and John's, never once claim to be God and instead declare unambiguously that they were not God?

When you pray to God, who answers the phone?

Why did the Jesuses of Mark and Matthew say "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" on the cross?

If the Trinity doctrine were correct, God was always a Trinity. Therefore the Father has no better claim to the title Father than Jesus or the Ghost have, each of them being 100% of God in [his] own right (and Jesus as son of God being just as much his own son as anyone else's).

 

[Neuropteron]

Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Hi,
The main reason is that Jesus explained that he was God's son, not God, further he explained" he was the first created being, that he was obedient and subservient to God and was sent to the earth to accomplish God's will
No one, not Jesus nor the first century disciples, not the apostles or the apostolic father ever said the he was God.

Matthew 16:15 Jesus asks "who do you say I am ?"..."you are the Christ the son of the living God".

 

[Kenny]

We (humans) also create.

I think that is a different broad stroke of the word "create".

 

[blü 2]

As I quoted other versus, you might have to synthesize your position. Only God creates, ergo Jesus is God.

No, in Paul and in John (and not in Mark, Matthew or Luke) Jesus is the demiurge, a heavenly being created early by God in heaven. The demiurge (Jesus) then created the material universe (which God as pure remote spirit would never do) and mediates between God and man.

Again... it is very specific... And the Word WAS God. Can't bypass the statement

You can however deduce what they don't mean, by noting the rest of John eg:

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”

John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
​

So which is it? Jesus is not God? Or Jesus is both God and an habitual liar and deceiver?

Or, as history shows, Jesus wasn't God until the 4th century CE when the incoherent Trinity doctrine was invented.

"More specifically, the heresy taking root in Colosse was a form of gnosticism, which taught (among other things) that humans could transcend evil and the corruptions of the world through asceticism and their own strength of will. Gnostics believed that they could essentially ignore the world and follow their own desires and impulses. Paul wrote to the Colossian church to warn them away from error and reiterate the importance of the Christian ethic."

There was a great deal more to gnosticism than anything that happened at Colossos. If you check 'demiurge' you'll see how the gnostic Jesuses of Paul and of John fit the mold, and how the non-gnostic Jesuses of Mark, Matthew and Luke don't.

The fact that Mark is putting Jesus in the place of Yahweh is confirmed when we consider the second OT citation from Is 40:3 :

First, where does Mark "put Jesus in the place of Yahweh"?

Second, Jesus doesn't fit the job description of a Jewish messiah, and is nowhere mentioned in the Tanakh. I know retrofitting Jesus into the Tanakh is a favorite Christian passtime of great antiquity ─ the author of Mark wrote Mark in an analogous manner ─ but it's simply untrue. Don't take my word for it, ask your mainstream Jewish friends.

Thus, for Mark, Jesus is God."
Does the Gospel of Mark Present Jesus as God?

Whoever wrote that link apparently things that a Jewish messiah is God. Someone should take him aside quietly and point out a few rather unsubtle facts.

I respect your viewpoint... just don't agree with it.

And I correspondingly enjoy our discussions ─ BUT I'm danged if I can see my way past the quotes John attributes to Jesus above, to turn Jesus into God. (Of course, I gain or lose nothing if the NT says Jesus is God ─ my point is simply that it doesn't.)

Regardless, all the best!

 

[Kenny]

No, in Paul and in John (and not in Mark, Matthew or Luke) Jesus is the demiurge, a heavenly being created early by God in heaven. The demiurge (Jesus) then created the material universe (which God as pure remote spirit would never do) and mediates between God and man.

No...

John... And the Word was God

Paul... God - For from him and through (di’) him and to (eis) him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.” Romans 11:36
“and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through (di’) whom all things came and through (di’) whom we live.” 1 Corinthians 8:6b
a=b;b=c the a=c

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

You can't be equal and not be God.

Matthew:All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel” (which means, “God with us”).

Mark : Mark 1:3 (citing Is 40:3 ): “the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.’” derived from Is 40:3 : A voice cries: “In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.”

Luke:46 And Mary said: My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, 47 and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior,

If Jesus is Savior and the Savior is God... Jesus is God.




So.... no go.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is getting a little too large a subject so I thought we would narrow it down since it is the foundation.

I've always wanted an answer or comment to the question I asked. I ask the same thing to many christians but it stops short one way or another. Most christian-related topics are repeated so it's easy to quote scriptures and comment. Though, I honestly can't read more into the simple straight forward verses in the bible. I scratch my head every time.

I'm not asking you to believe as I do.. all I'm saying is that you are committing those scriptures that declare that He is God. I agree with the position, as you say, that Jesus is our mediator.

What throws it off is saying he is also god (when I think god, I think creator).

Unless the "how can you be a mediator between creator and christian while remaining the creator" can be answered (the straight-forward example I gave), I'm not sure if you can't understand the differences in positions?

I know "incarnation" can work as being god and flesh at the same time. If the creator becomes flesh and "walks among the people" I can kinda see that only when taken that the creator is not separate from his word/law.

If no one obeys the law, why can't god make that law of mosses flesh?

If the creator said "I am jesus" then that would be fine. Case close. But I do feel because christians don't believe "in the law" anymore, it's hard to associate with the creator's law through a person of flesh rather than seeing the law as ritual of the disobedient jew of that day.

Maybe it's the same as people of moses where they didn't want to obey the law moses brought from god but do their own thing. Unless people "make him god" they feel there is no need to follow. Not sure why, but I never got pass the questions.

 

[rational experiences]

I've always wanted an answer or comment to the question I asked. I ask the same thing to many christians but it stops short one way or another. Most christian-related topics are repeated so it's easy to quote scriptures and comment. Though, I honestly can't read more into the simple straight forward verses in the bible. I scratch my head every time.



What throws it off is saying he is also god (when I think god, I think creator).

Unless the "how can you be a mediator between creator and christian while remaining the creator" can be answered (the straight-forward example I gave), I'm not sure if you can't understand the differences in positions?

I know "incarnation" can work as being god and flesh at the same time. If the creator becomes flesh and "walks among the people" I can kinda see that only when taken that the creator is not separate from his word/law.

If no one obeys the law, why can't god make that law of mosses flesh?

If the creator said "I am jesus" then that would be fine. Case close. But I do feel because christians don't believe "in the law" anymore, it's hard to associate with the creator's law through a person of flesh rather than seeing the law as ritual of the disobedient jew of that day.

Maybe it's the same as people of moses where they didn't want to obey the law moses brought from god but do their own thing. Unless people "make him god" they feel there is no need to follow. Not sure why, but I never got pass the questions.

What about using a correct human use of thinking.

Life on Earth without science, the use of explanation of self presence.

And just accept that you are a natural human, seeing self multiple bodies that claim, yes humans live owning life on a stone planet that we named as Earth.

And we live with a Nature of diverse species without claiming superior intelligence?

Which is what everyone is supposed to be enabled to apply, a use of commons sensible human logic....about self presence.

If you live on a natural body in a naturally created not human owned history, which a mind knows as a human aware self....then why talk about it? For we already know we do not own it.

We live owning one SELF presence, a natural human life. Who owns 2 human being variations a male and a female. Who have sex, we produce babies, we live with a nature support of food and water. And we need a healthy atmospheric body to live healthily.

Naturally advised self human information.

A human knows that their own self does not exist before itself....yet consciously it says it does lying. For its claim as consciousness I was living in the life of 2 human being parents...when they own separate life.

Our life in virtual reality comes from sperm and an ovary.

Humans know that they own no self identification before they exist just in self human form. Other forms are similar in body ownership.....but their life forms own those bodies....we do not own those bodies.

We interact in natural life with those bodies existing....and are meant to honour natural life.

As simply as a truthful human explanation owns, just as a human without belief or imposed teaching being involved.

Now if a human says....only in the life presence can a human being male build what is not natural....a machine and react it....and then attack natural life.

Why stories got told about how a planet of stone O as the story God created its own creation O its stone body, its stone gas heavenly mass...and owned it.

And that body history keeps life on Earth for a human safe.

Just common sensible human logic.

When males chose to use machine reactions, we were attacked and changed in our natural life by the cause and effect of those machines. Not previously known to any male mind about what a machine reaction would cause until it caused it.

What the stories about changes to our life body, and to the body of One Planet were explained for.

Life attacked and sacrificed.

And that story is not any TITLE of reference....it is a causation and explained simply as cause and effect to our Nature by using an artificial technology that should never have been invented.

Yet throughout the ages the same male mentality keeps on inventing life in attack claiming it is their right by group enforced male choice....just as humans being human.

 

[Iymus]

0.
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

John... And the Word was God

1.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
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You can't be equal and not be God.

2.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
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If Jesus is Savior and the Savior is God... Jesus is God.

3.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
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4.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
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[rational experiences]

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
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1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
-------------



Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
--------------

Okay, a male says to his owned bio life, I am natural.

He builds an unnatural machine by changing natural God stone, that ended fused in empty out of space....with no other gases.

His machine history owned no gases.

Bio life did.

He attacked his spiritual life and changed his bio life into a body that is stone like as a separate body within the bio flesh. And named it a body of bone.....like the stone.

He lives, he dies, just as his Father before him and he lives one body on Planet Earth like that of God the stone....and that is too difficult a reasoning for a male studying the bio genetics and life as a story.

That he taught as a story in Church, a healing venue against Satanic science practices of the occult that said, we live on this planet owning a bio cellular life, that is bone supported as a God like body....so we know we belong with this planet, and are trapped living on this planet for we own a stone like product named as bones.

For when a male writes a story about natural history and historical bio life Genetics attacked, he had to give a conclusive review after studying the events after the fact of the attacks as caused by machines.

To then preach his conclusive science medical evidences about how evil science of the occult UFO METAL mass is, trying to claim that bone/stone is a metal.​

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

The problem with that though, is doesn't Jesus seem to set an awful lot of people up for judgement. This figure also talked of sending coals down on people's heads, and not visiting whole towns for lack of a few good representatives. This is the figure who ultimately seems to indicate that in his glorious form, he has a sword for a tongue, and is galloping out of the sky to mow you over on his horse. I don't like the idea of vengeance. I don't like a lot of the bloody history of Christendom, I think it probably held us back from making spaceships a thousand years ago. But to answer your question, a being more compassionate than Jesus would be a pacifist who doesn't want vengeance, and who loves and heals you without demanding your belief. Why is our belief demanded? Why shouldn't he physically stay here on earth and rule, how would that possibly contaminate whatever his goals were