Why Jesus is a God

[sojourner]

There are no ancient Jesus temples

That's because the purpose of a temple is to be a place of sacrifice. Christianity is a non-sacrificial religion. Jesus' self-sacrifice eliminated the need for further sacrifice.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not sure why Jesus needs to be god in order to go through him as a savior.

Partially because numerous places in the bible make it clear that salvation is God's job. matt. 19:26, Eph. 2:8-9 and Jonah 2:9 for starters. Jesus cannot be "savior" unless Jesus is … God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Partially because numerous places in the bible make it clear that salvation is God's job. matt. 19:26, Eph. 2:8-9 and Jonah 2:9 for starters. Jesus cannot be "savior" unless Jesus is … God.

Of course he can. He is the incarnation of god's law. So, if he isn't the flesh/sin (which isn't god) to take away the sins of the world, basically, it's contradicting god's actual nature who cannot be around and turn into sin.

Since salvation is god's job, only god can save. Since jesus is god's son not god himself, he sent jesus "to do his job" because jesus is the son/incarnation/representation/medium between god and man.

Jesus is not god but a medium between god and man.

Once you exclude the medium to make jesus the source, there is no longer a bridge between the two. You're equating people's sins with god.

Making jesus god takes the mediumship away. In your scripture, it says god saves. In scripture it also says jesus is the medium between god and man. This alone proves jesus is not god.

People make assumptions "therefore jesus can't be savior unless jesus is god" which is fine since the two are connected. Unless christians are literalist, it's fine to make interpretations based on what you read to mirror one's experiences. That doesn't change that god is the father/creator. Jesus is the son/savior. Holy spirit is the breathe of life.

I'm not sure why jesus needs to be god to do what his father made him and told him to do.

That's telling us god is a hypocrite. Why send a son when he is the son himself.

 

[sojourner]

Of course he can. He is the incarnation of god's law.

God's Law also doesn't save. Only God saves.

Since salvation is god's job, only god can save. Since jesus is god's son not god himself, he sent jesus "to do his job" because jesus is the son/incarnation/representation/medium between god and man.

Do you see the logical fallacy? "Only God can save"/"God sent Jesus 'to do his job?" The second does not follow from the first.

Jesus is not god but a medium between god and man.

So what is Jesus? Human? How can a human be a "medium?"

Once you exclude the medium to make jesus the source, there is no longer a bridge between the two. You're equating people's sins with god.

This makes no soteriological sense whatsoever.

That's telling us god is a hypocrite. Why send a son when he is the son himself.

This represents a gross misunderstanding of the nature of the Trinity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hm.

God's Law also doesn't save. Only God saves.

For example. Thou shall not kill is a law. No one listened. So god made this law flesh to show killing is wrong and loving god is what people should do. It's an incarnation of god's law Not rituals. People associate god's Law with rituals and all of that. Commandments aren't like that. Maybe the word throws people off?

Do you see the logical fallacy? "Only God can save"/"God sent Jesus 'to do his job?" The second does not follow from the first.

Hm.

Yes. Frodian slip. Here we go:

Oh. God did the job "by" sending jesus. So he did but through his son.

I'm sure you can understand this without the religious context?

Someone can do something on the behalf of someone else?

So what is Jesus? Human? How can a human be a "medium?"

Well. John 3:16 and others say jesus is a medium between god and man. Two many scriptures to support this. The bible it's self is the Word "of" god not god itself.

This makes no soteriological sense whatsoever.

There is no medium once you make jesus god.

When you make jesus god, you're making god sin. God can't take on the sins of the world because he is not flesh. He needs someone of flesh to take on these sins that's why jesus represents (and becomes) people's flesh. Those who believe they are sinful, take on put their sins on jesus. When he dies as a human being, his flesh dies and his spirit goes to god.

Makes more sense?

This represents a gross misunderstanding of the nature of the Trinity.

I see the trinity as tri- nity rather than unity. God/creator, god/savior, god/spirit.

It's easier to talk about god as the creator. If the creator is jesus, that's wrong. But maybe people use the word god to get over that hump?

 

[sojourner]

For example. Thou shall not kill is a law. No one listened. So god made this law flesh to show killing is wrong and loving god is what people should do. It's an incarnation of god's law Not rituals. People associate god's Law with rituals and all of that. Commandments aren't like that. Maybe the word throws people off?

That's fine, but the Law still doesn't save. God saves.

Yes. Frodian slip.

We're not talking about Frodo.

Someone can do something on the behalf of someone else?

Yes, but that would still constitute the doer as the doer.

Well. John 3:16 and others say jesus is a medium between god and man.

John 3:16 also indicates that 1) the Word was God, that 2) the Word became human.

There is no medium once you make jesus god.

Jesus is also fully human.

When you make jesus god, you're making god sin.

This doesn't follow, because Jesus was without sin.

God can't take on the sins of the world because he is not flesh.

Jesus was flesh...

He needs someone of flesh to take on these sins that's why jesus represents (and becomes) people's flesh. Those who believe they are sinful, take on put their sins on jesus. When he dies as a human being, his flesh dies and his spirit goes to god.

Makes more sense?

No. This only makes sense from a twisted view of substitutionary atonement, which I believe is codswallop.

I see the trinity as tri- nity rather than unity. God/creator, god/savior, god/spirit.

You just implied that Jesus is God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's fine, but the Law still doesn't save. God saves.

The law is the law of Moses. God/creator made the law of moses incarnated so the law can "walk among the people" and have a personal relationship with it. Since people didn't listen to the old law (the one you speak of), the father summed up the law to love god and love brother. The only way one can know this law personally is through jesus. And the only way to know the law is "through" jesus. Since "the law was With" god and the law "is" god. God cannot be separated from his law.

Yet, the two are different even though they are interrelated. The law (not the one you speak of) comes "from" god.

So in order to know the father, you have to know the law. The only way you know the law is through jesus. Thereby knowing jesus you know the law. And knowing the law you know god.

If you follow how the three are interconnected without being a unity?

We're not talking about Frodo.

Haha. Sometimes my spelling works against me

Yes, but that would still constitute the doer as the doer.

The doer (the father) sent his son to speak on his/the father's behalf.

Someone sent someone else so that someone else can speak on the former's behalf.

It isn't a religious thing, though. Just english.

John 3:16 also indicates that 1) the Word was God, that 2) the Word became human.

I'm not sure you understand the context, though. English is something. Let me see....

Gosh. I can't even explain it. It's a context thing. Word/law is god because they are interrelated. So when we say I am my mother, we're not saying that I am my mother, we're saying that we are one-interconnected as mother and daughter. It's a way to say the nature of the relationship. English uses this to signify the type of relationship two people have. If jesus was god, that would be throughout the bible. But it isn't.

It's always been go through jesus to get to god.

John 3:16 also indicates that 1) the Word was God, that 2) the Word became human.

Word/law became human/flesh. That's right. Not god, but god's law (not the law you speak of. The law of moses and the one jesus fulfilled of loving god/his father and brothers).

Jesus is also fully human.

And is only human.

This doesn't follow, because Jesus was without sin.

He took on the sins of the world. He did so through his flesh. His flesh was crucified, therefore he was resurrected to his father. When people put their sins on jesus' flesh, when it's crucified so are their sins. And like jesus, they will be resurrected.

Jesus was flesh...

Yes. My point.

No. This only makes sense from a twisted view of substitutionary atonement, which I believe is codswallop.

Not understanding. I think I rephrased it above.

You just implied that Jesus is God.

No. Tri-nity means three things interconnected
Unity means they are one unit, they are each other.

 

[sojourner]

The law is the law of Moses

The Law still doesn’t save. God saves.

The doer (the father) sent his son to speak on his/the father's behalf

Speaking on God’s behalf doesn’t save. God saves.

when we say I am my mother, we're not saying that I am my mother, we're saying that we are one-interconnected as mother and daughter

Except that’s not what the Greek says there.

It's always been go through jesus to get to god

No it hasn’t. Ask any Jew.

Word/law became human/flesh. That's right. Not god, but god's law (not the law you speak of. The law of moses and the one jesus fulfilled of loving god/his father and brothers

Except that’s not what the Greek says. You can’t make the Greek say what it doesn’t say.

And is only human

That’s not what the texts imply.

No. Tri-nity means three things interconnected
Unity means they are one unit, they are each other

Well, that’s kind of what the Doctrine of the Trinity says. Three distinct Persons. Each Person is God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying.

God saves "through" jesus not as jesus. The only way you know god is through jesus. This alone separates the two.

The Law still doesn’t save. God saves.

Through jesus.

Speaking on God’s behalf doesn’t save. God saves.

Yes it does. That's why jesus is the medium and intermediary between god and man. The words are in scripture.

Except that’s not what the Greek says there.

Shifting?

No it hasn’t. Ask any Jew.

We're talking about christianity. Jews don't believe in jesus; so, he's irrelevant to them.

Shifting?

Except that’s not what the Greek says. You can’t make the Greek say what it doesn’t say.

Shifting?

It's translated in english. You guys are posting english scriptures and assuming what is said in the bible is what greek actually says.

That’s not what the texts imply.

Then he isn't fully human?

Well, that’s kind of what the Doctrine of the Trinity says. Three distinct Persons. Each Person is God.

God meaning creator

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Thank you for your reply.
I comprehend the 'me in my throne' as that throne belonging to Jesus at Revelation 3:21/
...and by Jesus saying 'my Father in His throne' is Jesus being at his Father's right hand or favored position.
Jesus says at Matthew 19:28 the Son of man (aka Jesus) shall sit in the throne of his (Jesus') glory (Not his Father's glory )
To people like those of Luke 22:28-30 at Matthew 19:28 also lets us know there are 12 thrones......
So, to me there is One God and one Lord (Jesus ) - Psalms 110, 1 Corinthians 8:6
Any comments about verse 6 ___________

My comment about verse 6 would be that there is only one God. That one God is a Spirit. He manifest himself in the flesh as the Messiah. So the one and only God wrapped himself in flesh, and sacrificed that flesh for the sins of man.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Again, thank you for your reply.
I find at Isaiah 44:24-28 'I am the LORD (YHWH) that makes all things' .
This is in agreement with Jesus' words found at Revelation 4:11 giving all credit to his God.
This is because pre-human Jesus was made (created) by his God as pre Revelation 3:14 B.
The God of Jesus ' stretches forth the heavens and spreads abroad the Earth by Himself.
Hebrew Bible says ' firmed the Earth by My own accord ' .
I made a margin note between Amos 3:7 with Matthew 11:27
Apparently, because Jesus says all things are delivered unto Jesus of his Father......
Any comments _________

Take note that verse 10 in Revelation 4:10-11 lets you know it is the 24 elders speaking and giving credit to the one on the throne.

As far as Revelation 3:14 is concerned: Known unto God are all his works from the beginning. I think he would be the beginning of the creation of God in the mind of God. Just like Revelation 13:8 says the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But we know the actual crucifying didn't occur until around 26-30 AD. Galatians 4:4 says the Messiah was made of a woman, made under the law. The way he was before Abraham was as God Almighty before he manifest himself in the flesh.

You have acknowledged that YHWH created all things. Now how do you reconcile that with verses such as Colossians 1:14-16 where it is saying that the one that shed the blood created everything? Can you not see that it had to be YHWH dwelling in that fleshly body?

YHWH is a Spirit. He made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for the sins of man. But it wasn't someone else. The Spirit did father the body, so he could call it his Son. But the Father and Son were one. The Father (the Spirit) was dwelling in the Son (the flesh). It isn't two different persons.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

if I under stand you correctly ,you didn't know that Jesus was the first and the last thing that the most high God made completely by him self ?

You are in conflict with Isaiah 44:24

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Yes, Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God as per Revelation 3:14 B
And ' after ' God created His only-begotten heavenly Son then ALL things come through Jesus as per Colossians 1:16.
This is why pre-human Jesus is part of the 'us' of Genesis 1:26

You are in conflict with Isaiah 44:24 which says YHWH himself made all things. The only way both verses can be true is if it was YHWH dwelling in that fleshly body. God manifest himself in the flesh as the scripture says.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

sure they did ,they saw
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,  mildness and self-control.
somethings we all could /should work on

He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He didn't say seen what I did.

 

[firedragon]

Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Are you reasoning God has no ability to convey all of this through someone?

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus must be a God. Who else was going to complete the word of God, if not God Himself?

Also, Jesus was flawless. John the Baptist saw this. Is there in history a being more compassionate than Jesus?

Lastly, the message Jesus brought (Love) cannot be trumped by other theories.

My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Some other Christians say that Jesus will return to rule with a rod of iron, bringing the sword to unbelievers, and Old Testament floggings, stonings and public executions to criminals. They tell me that Jesus is God and that the whole Bible is his word including Paul's rants etc.

They demand that Jesus was about truth before love. That's why I think that folks are walking away from churches today, all those Christian maniacs, as I describe.

But I don't think Jesus is God because he was just a man who picked up the Baptist's mission and tried to carry it forward.

 

[syo]

Are you reasoning God has no ability to convey all of this through someone?

Humans are equal. God wouldn't pick a human to stand out.

 

[firedragon]

Humans are equal. God wouldn't pick a human to stand out.

Thus are you saying he never picked someone like Moses or Noah and they didnt stand out?

 

[1213]

...
My question is, is there a reason Jesus is NOT God?

Jesus himself says there is only one true God that is greater than him.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

..the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

I think Jesus is great, and I believe what he says.

 

[syo]

Thus are you saying he never picked someone like Moses or Noah and they didnt stand out?

They didn't have the task that Jesus had. Jesus brought Life.