Why Isn't There More Suffering?

[Erebus]

If god allows suffering because it is somehow necessary for human salvation, then why isn't there more suffering in the world? Many people go through life with almost no suffering. Has god forsaken these poor individuals?

Suffering isn't necessary for human salvation, people suffer for no real reason whatsoever for the most part. C'est la vie.
The people with practically no suffering have just got off lightly when faced with the forces of chance, fate and sod's law. Still, at least they provide those of us with a mild amount of suffering in our lives with something to ***** about when we're not weeping self righteous tears for those poor third world children we've never once seen outside of TV land.

 

[Orias]

Suffering isn't necessary for human salvation, people suffer for no real reason whatsoever for the most part. C'est la vie.
The people with practically no suffering have just got off lightly when faced with the forces of chance, fate and sod's law. Still, at least they provide those of us with a mild amount of suffering in our lives with something to ***** about when we're not weeping self righteous tears for those poor third world children we've never once seen outside of TV land.

:yes: I've thought the exact same thing.

 

[Benhamine]

Passed what?

You think this is a test?

No I don't but what you were describing sounded like the standard "God's testing us" philosophy. On second reading I see you say it's a training. Which leads me to ask if you think those dead infants didn't need any training, what are we training exactly for, and why not God just make us already in the final product?

-Benhamine

 

[Quagmire]

No I don't but what you were describing sounded like the standard "God's testing us" philosophy. On second reading I see you say it's a training. Which leads me to ask if you think those dead infants didn't need any training, what are we training exactly for, and why not God just make us already in the final product?

-Benhamine

What fun would that be?

 

[arcanum]

I think the gnostics had an interesting take on this. The physical world we exist in was not made by god almighty or the absolute but by a lesser imperfect deity. The world is imperfect with enormous amounts of suffering because the creator of this place is imperfect. So the God of all didn't create us directly , this world is an indirect product and far from the perfect emanation of the absolute. Or the closer to the source of the light the light is obviously the strongest, and the further away there is less that the light can illuminate, it's not the light's fault it just is a natural law. So it is with god, it's not his fault that we are located in a distant emanation far from his perfect light. Whether or not one can take take this seriously it would certainly explain a lot of things. I mentioned this idea to a friend of mine and he that sounds very relieving.

 

[DinChild]

I think the gnostics had an interesting take on this. The physical world we exist in was not made by god almighty or the absolute but by a lesser imperfect deity. The world is imperfect with enormous amounts of suffering because the creator of this place is imperfect. So the God of all didn't create us directly , this world is an indirect product and far from the perfect emanation of the absolute. Or the closer to the source of the light the light is obviously the strongest, and the further away there is less that the light can illuminate, it's not the light's fault it just is a natural law. So it is with god, it's not his fault that we are located in a distant emanation far from his perfect light. Whether or not one can take take this seriously it would certainly explain a lot of things. I mentioned this idea to a friend of mine and he that sounds very relieving.

Metaphors are cute. They work very well for children, and writers of children's books.

 

[arcanum]

Metaphors are cute. They work very well for children, and writers of children's books.

The gnostics used the vehicle of myth to get their point across and it may intuitively point an uncomfortable truth for some: That in the great cosmic ecosystem in which we exist... we really aren't very important.

 

[bobhikes]

If god allows suffering because it is somehow necessary for human salvation, then why isn't there more suffering in the world? Many people go through life with almost no suffering. Has god forsaken these poor individuals?

I don't think any individual would agree that statement true about themselves. You may see there life as less in suffering but they don't.

For example I consider myself very happy now, but I have suffered greatly to this point and I will still suffer greatly in the future. I just deal with it better, not that I don't suffer.

 

[Blackdog22]

I don't think any individual would agree that statement true about themselves. You may see there life as less in suffering but they don't.

For example I consider myself very happy now, but I have suffered greatly to this point and I will still suffer greatly in the future. I just deal with it better, not that I don't suffer.

I think that truly depends on the amount of suffering that you are under. What exactly do you constitute as suffering? Being bullied? Loss of a job? Loss of a loved one? I think if that is your idea of suffering you haven't suffered to the extent that people that truly suffered have. Have you ever heard of wilsons disease? It is a debilitating disease that destroys your liver and brain. Symptoms range from Chronic severe depression, psychosis, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, difficulty speaking or thinking, difficulty walking, fatigue, involuntary shaking, no appetite, worsened ability to digest foods and uptake nutrients, and their is more believe it or not.

Go over each of those symptoms and try to honestly, realistically imagine yourself living each and every day like a helpless infant, but your a full grown man. Your minds still in tact and you fully realize everything that is happening to you. Imagine wanting to blow your brains out every day, but simply being too far gone to even make it to the store. Then imagine one day you just die because your body gives out on you. Imagine how dark that life must be, and you live it every day until you die. Every waking moment is a nightmare. Every time you open your eyes you are filled with dread that you are still alive.

There are no friends, there is no prom, there was no highschool or college, there is no wife or kids, the only family you have can't bear to even look at you. There is no goal or hope for tomorrow, there is no looking forward to anything at all, because nothing causes you any sort of happiness. Everyone you ever knew has passed you by, while you sit all alone as the years pass you by, but you can't even cry because every emotion that you ever used to feel no longer exists within you. Nothing about the person you used to be even remains, you are now a lifeless, worthless, shell of a human being just waiting to die.


Find me a reason for this kind of suffering.

 

[bobhikes]

Find me a reason for this kind of suffering.

No one has to suffer either we force them to or they force themselves. If one chooses to live in pain is it really suffering.

This only leaves forced suffering and can you grade it? I can't.

 

[Blackdog22]

No one has to suffer either we force them to or they force themselves. If one chooses to live in pain is it really suffering.

This only leaves forced suffering and can you grade it? I can't.

This is about diseases. No one chooses to have a disease.

If someone cut your leg off and I gave you a scale of 1 to 10 I bet you could probably grade it, they do it in medicine all the time.

 

[paratrooper1993]

for those who suffer nothing in this world for god, will suffer badly when he faces him.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

for those who suffer nothing in this world for god, will suffer badly when he faces him.

So god's some sort of sadist who requires his payment in suffering one way or the other?

 

[Songbird]

So god's some sort of sadist who requires his payment in suffering one way or the other?

Whoa, I just said that last night: "I require my payment in suffering one way or the other, slave!" to my...never mind.

 

[xkatz]

So god's some sort of sadist who requires his payment in suffering one way or the other?

He's a dominatrix.

 

[Acim]

She's a dominatrix who likes to be called Big Daddy.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Whoa, I just said that last night: "I require my payment in suffering one way or the other, slave!" to my...never mind.

Duh, I was there. And, yes, I'm aware that I still owe you 32.4 minutes of suffering.

 

[Songbird]

Duh, I was there. And, yes, I'm aware that I still owe you 32.4 minutes of suffering.

Nice.

 

[bobhikes]

This is about diseases. No one chooses to have a disease.

If someone cut your leg off and I gave you a scale of 1 to 10 I bet you could probably grade it, they do it in medicine all the time.

A disease does not generate suffering. It is you view of how the disease effects you that creates your suffering.

People have beaten almost all diseases, people have lived very successful lives without, limbs, sight, hearing voice. What about Stephen Hawking do you think he suffers greatly.

Yes I can grade my pain, I can not grade yours even for the same problem and you would be wrong to grade mine.