Why is this world out of control?

[Gezellig]

If you look further into Revelation chapter 12, then verse 13 says: "Woe to the earth and the sea! The Devil has come down to you, full of great wrath, knowing that his time is running out." What will happen to him after his time expires is described in chapter 20 of the book of Revelation.
Therefore, as it is said in Ecclesiastes 3 chapter - "all in good time."

 

[nPeace]

Well no, because billions of people don't all believe what you believe. For example, most Christians I know would say that slavery is immoral.

Wait.
So all 8 billion people in the world agree with your "moral compass"?
You got to be kidding me.

Morality does not only cover slavery.
Right now, billions of people are walking around with a compass pointing every which direction, and they are all leading in the right direction... according to you. ...except for mine, of course. ...and those that don't agree with yours... or atheist like you.

And if these people cannot demonstrate the veracity of their claims, it doesn't matter how many people believe it. Unless you want to get caught in a logical fallacy.

Demonstrates the veracity of their claims to the atheist that gets to determine which compass is pointing in the right direction?

Nope. I'm not talking to them about their beliefs; I'm talking to you about your beliefs that you have shared in this forum.

Yeah? We have finished, remember.
You have declared that you have a "moral compass" that is better than any not like it, and obviously right.
What's more to talk about there?
I'm saying to you that you are morally upright and the billions who disagree with you are immoral.
Nothing hard to understand about that, Skeptic... and that is in areas of sexual immorality, cussing, viewing porn, loving violent entertainment, etc..

Most people do exactly that. Including yourself.
I mean, you think slavery is moral.

Well yeah. I understand what slavery is, you see, and I don't shove it in a bag with the slavery that you choose to focus on, which isn't at all the same thing.
Besides, I already said I am a slave - a happy one, and that won't end.
You are too. You just won't admit it... but you love it.
We are slaves of one thing or another.

 

[nPeace]

Sodom and Gomorrah is a historical practice. Now some Governments at the international level support homosexuality practiced in these cities.

It's not documented that they raped babies, then.
I'm thinking that if that practice was prevalent, it would have been mentioned at some point in history.

 

[Balthazzar]

Chaos seems a valid reason coupled with misinformation or lack of understanding/knowing a truth. Truth being pitted against error it would seem and too many duped via deceit. If truths are correct (right) then it would follow that righteousness involves factual and truthful realities.

Deceit would thrust some chaos in the mix. The real enemy is lack of understanding or lack of knowing a truth. False teachers - false prophets - the deceiver of the inhabitants on earth call it what you will. Wise as serpents? What's wise about causing chaos and spreading lies leaving people unclear, uncertain, and unlearned?

The enemy? Well - If something isn't true than I might suggest that something would mislead.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Is the world really getting worse? How do you measure that?

Google Availability Heuristic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Wait.
So all 8 billion people in the world agree with your "moral compass"?
You got to be kidding me.

Who said that? You're the one who has committed an argumentum ad populum fallacy here. And incorrectly at that, because billions of people don't practice your exact brand of Christianity where slavery is a-ok.

Morality does not only cover slavery.
Right now, billions of people are walking around with a compass pointing every which direction, and they are all leading in the right direction... according to you. ...except for mine, of course. ...and those that don't agree with yours... or atheist like you.

Wait so you think that anyone who thinks that slavery is immoral is ... an atheist? Is that right?

Demonstrates the veracity of their claims to the atheist that gets to determine which compass is pointing in the right direction?

To anyone, really. Unless you want to get trapped in a logical fallacy, which you seem to be fine with.

So you've completely skipped over the part of my post where I explained how moral actions could be arrived upon with the goal of the well-being of sentient creatures in mind and you have nothing to say about it except to try to take a jab at atheists? Maybe clean up your own backyard before attempting that. You support the immoral practice of slavery and you've bent over backwards on this thread to defend it.

Yeah? We have finished, remember.
You have declared that you have a "moral compass" that is better than any not like it, and obviously right.

What I said was that you have lost your moral compass because you have vociferously defended an immoral action because you have to defend whatever the Bible says, apparently at the cost of your moral compass.

Stop acting like billions of people support slavery, like you do.

What's more to talk about there?
I'm saying to you that you are morally upright and the billions who disagree with you are immoral.

Billions do not disagree with me that slavery is immoral, but again, that's just an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

This conversation is between you and me. I am responding to the things YOU say, YOUR moral pronouncements, YOUR beliefs, etc. Please stop pretending that billions of people agree wholeheartedly with you on your very specific set of religious beliefs. They don't, and there are thousands of Christian denominations in existence, not to mention all the other religions practiced around the world. And even if every single person on the planet agreed with you, that wouldn't make slavery moral.

Nothing hard to understand about that, Skeptic... and that is in areas of sexual immorality, cussing, viewing porn, loving violent entertainment, etc..

That you would equate cussing or viewing porn with owning human beings as property just reinforces to me that your moral compass is completely wonky and I that I want nothing to do with it.

Well yeah. I understand what slavery is, you see, and I don't shove it in a bag with the slavery that you choose to focus on, which isn't at all the same thing.

No, that would be you trying to soften the harsh slavery described in the Bible and to equate it with some sort of nonsensical spiritual slavery or whatever.
I've been quite clear from the get-go that what I am talking about is HUMAN BEINGS OWNING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AS PROPERTY. Please stop trying to whitewash it.

Besides, I already said I am a slave - a happy one, and that won't end.
You are too. You just won't admit it... but you love it.
We are slaves of one thing or another.

But you're not. No human being owns you.
And again, I find it somewhat disingenuous of you to keep falsely equivocating in this manner.

 

[nPeace]

That you would equate cussing or viewing porn with owning human beings as property just reinforces to me that your moral compass is completely wonky and I that I want nothing to do with it.

I'm not going to spend my time in any thread argue with your one tracked argument, Skeptic.
How long do you want this thread to be, just saying the same thing?

You believe you have a moral compass and anyone who does not agree with it is immoral.
So your view on what's moral, amd what is not is correct, because your moral compass is pointing in the right direction.
So if you support the practice of taking life in its early stages, in the most gruesome way, or any way for that matter, that is moral. If you support cussing, or same sex marriage, or watching porn and violent entertainment, and all that , that is moral.

Okay. I get it.
Go eat, drink and be merry.
How does repeating that you have a moral compass and I don't benefit anyone? Does it make you feel more moral... comfort you.
Okay. Go your way rejoicing. I said all I have to say. No need to repeat.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not going to spend my time in any thread argue with your one tracked argument, Skeptic.

You don't want to spend your time on a debate forum debating? Okay then.

How long do you want this thread to be, just saying the same thing?

What I'd like for you to do is respond to my points. That's what goes on in debate forums.

Weird how you're trying to bail out so quickly . I guess I would too if I were supporting immoral actions.

You believe you have a moral compass and anyone who does not agree with it is immoral.

How about sticking with what I said. That wasn't it.
You left out most of my post yet again, in your response. Why is that? Even the part I pointed out that you ignored the last time.

So your view on what's moral, amd what is not is correct, because your moral compass is pointing in the right direction.

I'm asking questions about your moral system, your moral beliefs and what you've done over and over is try to deflect to anything else - "billions of people" (who don't all agree with you), and making up stuff I didn't say.

I did take the time to explain to you where and how my moral system is derived, and you simply ignored it as though I said nothing. Twice.

So if you support the practice of taking life in its early stages, in the most gruesome way, or any way for that matter, that is moral. If you support cussing, or same sex marriage, or watching porn and violent entertainment, and all that , that is moral.

I find it very interesting that instead of responding to what I've actually said, you're left putting words in my mouth and responding to that instead. That's very telling.

Okay. I get it.
Go eat, drink and be merry.
How does repeating that you have a moral compass and I don't benefit anyone? Does it make you feel more moral... comfort you.
Okay. Go your way rejoicing. I said all I have to say. No need to repeat.

I understand why you're giving up. It's rather obvious you can't defend your system of morality. (Which I would also argue isn't a system of morality at all given that you're just following orders from on high).

This conversation went absolutely no where because you just gave up. Bailed out. Couldn't be bothered to engage in opposing arguments and challenges to your beliefs. Got it. My arguments stand then, since you couldn't even be bothered to address them.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Cain, Not listening not controlling his temper was the problem, Not the veggies.

I don’t care what John thinks. In the story, God rejected Cain and his grilled vegetables and liked lamb chops. Because there’s no reason why this is, Cain rightly gets upset, but God’s head isn’t easily hit with a rock.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I find the account about Job (Job 2:4-5) was Not too much pain but an answer to Satan's challenge that to touch our flesh..... ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both, Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

Jesus is lying. Satan never lied in any of his scenes.

 

[nPeace]

What I'd like for you to do is respond to my points. That's what goes on in debate forums.

Weird how you're trying to bail out so quickly . I guess I would too if I were supporting immoral actions..

To repeat what I have already said? Um... Why?
Nothing I said has changed. You want me to change it? Why?
Is it because you think you get to decide right and wrong?
When you can demonstrate that, then maybe we'll get somewhere.
Right now, the only reason I can see for you wanting a repeat, is to aid you in comforting yourself.

For example,
I say A. You say I am making excuses.
I say B. You say I am immoral.
Well what do I do now? Say C? Why? So that you can say. "Your moral compass is disgusting."?

All I see is you comforting yourself into believing that you are so much more moral than this disgustingly immoral person, and any who are not so moral like you.
Stroking the ego, we describe it as. So yeah. Comforting yourself is what you want to do here.

Nothing I say will get you off that song... "Oh. You are so disgustingly immoral, and I am so morally upright. Your moral compass is so off track. My moral compass is on track."

Well. What more can I say, other than... Sing it baby.
Why would I want to waste time listening to you sing the same tune at everything I say?
Like I got nothing better to do.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If you look further into Revelation chapter 12, then verse 13 says: "Woe to the earth and the sea! The Devil has come down to you, full of great wrath, knowing that his time is running out." What will happen to him after his time expires is described in chapter 20 of the book of Revelation.
Therefore, as it is said in Ecclesiastes 3 chapter - "all in good time."

Since Jesus is the one who will destroy Satan (see Hebrews 2:14 B) then after Satan is released from the abyss, then he will be gone forever. ALL the wicked (Sinner Satan is wicked) will be destroyed - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus is lying. Satan never lied in any of his scenes.

Sinner Satan told the first lie as we can read at Genesis 3:4, thus Jesus could refer to Satan as the father of the lie.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don’t care what John thinks. In the story, God rejected Cain and his grilled vegetables and liked lamb chops. Because there’s no reason why this is, Cain rightly gets upset, but God’s head isn’t easily hit with a rock.

Both brothers Cain and Abel sacrificed what they had to offer.
Abel did Not have to sacrifice what Cain had, and Cain did Not have to sacrifice what was Abel's.
Motive, Motive, Motive is what makes the sacrifice acceptable.
Cain's motive was bad - Genesis 4:7
The warning is Not to follow the path of Cain. Cain gave in to wrong impulses, and Cain showed lack of appreciation.
- Jude 1:11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Is the world really getting worse? How do you measure that?.................

We can start with mankind's long history of MAN dominating MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Never before World War I was there a world war and war has not stopped since then.
Technology has proved to be a two-edged sword:
For example: Atomic Energy ( good ) Atomic Bomb ( bad )
Worldly religions like to meddle to throne and dethrone kings/political rulers.
Something will cause the political powers in charge to be saying, " Peace and Security...." - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
That rosy saying will prove to be the precursor for the political to *surprisingly* turn on the corrupted religious world.
With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to become God's modern-day arm of the law to rid the earth of corrupted religion.

 

[Wandering Monk]

We can start with mankind's long history of MAN dominating MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Never before World War I was there a world war and war has not stopped since then.
Technology has proved to be a two-edged sword:
For example: Atomic Energy ( good ) Atomic Bomb ( bad )
Worldly religions like to meddle to throne and dethrone kings/political rulers.
Something will cause the political powers in charge to be saying, " Peace and Security...." - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
That rosy saying will prove to be the precursor for the political to *surprisingly* turn on the corrupted religious world.
With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to become God's modern-day arm of the law to rid the earth of corrupted religion.

Global literacy?
Infant mortality?
Longevity?
Global extreme poverty?
Global nutrition?

 

[dfnj]

Why is this world out of control? Have you ever wondered what could be the reason for all the problems we’re experiencing? Pollution, health, the economy, the weather, …. just to name a few.
You may say that humans are to blame. To a degree, I agree. Do you believe that someone could, or is promoting chaos, from behind the scenes? I believe so!

Here is why the world is out of control. Unlike God, our universe and the people living in it have limitations. Because people have limitations, they have needs and desires. People's needs and desires cause evil when people try to get their needs and desires fulfilled. This is a simply equation. There's no need to come up with supernatural forces fiddling about with our sub-conscious minds so we act outside of our normal control.

If you want to eliminate evil from the world, then come up with and economic system were people are capable of getting all their needs met without excessive amounts of poverty which causes crimes. I'm kind of fond of supplemental income to people paying payroll taxes as a way of ensuring consumers have enough money to keep the economy vibrant and sufficient in getting people's needs met. Supplemental income would be paid by taxing people and companies who benefit from consumption. The problem we have in the world is automation is making work so menial it pays very low wages. At some point, company's will have total automation and at thoat point there will be no need for any workers! But workers are consumers. And if there are no consumers the economy will collapse. So there has to be some kind of supplemental income at some point because of automation will eventually destroy the economy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....................If you want to eliminate evil from the world, then come up with and economic system were people are capable of getting all their needs met without excessive amounts of poverty which causes crimes.
I'm kind of fond of supplemental income to people paying payroll taxes as a way of ensuring consumers have enough money to keep the economy vibrant and sufficient in getting people's needs met. Supplemental income would be paid by taxing people and companies who benefit from consumption. The problem we have in the world is automation is making work so menial it pays very low wages. At some point, company's will have total automation and at that point there will be no need for any workers! But workers are consumers. And if there are no consumers the economy will collapse. So there has to be some kind of supplemental income at some point because of automation will eventually destroy the economy.

I find your thought about an economic system to be of interest because the Constitution of the Mosaic Law Code did address economic problems:
The Law required to set aside produce for the poor (a form of taxation / insurance) also the needy were granted interest-free loans to insure access to credit.
Also, the Jubilee Year (every 50 years) to restore inherited land to original owners, thus protecting property rights.
So, these provisions helped all through financial reverses to recover from long-term poverty.
( Leviticus 19:9-10; Leviticus 25:10; Leviticus 25:35-37; Deuteronomy 24:19-21 )
I also find at Deuteronomy 15:7-11, 25:15 righteous behavior promoted economic security.
( pledged to uphold being honest, generous, trustworthy, compassion.... )
God's feelings about such things as found in Psalms 15

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Sinner Satan told the first lie as we can read at Genesis 3:4, thus Jesus could refer to Satan as the father of the lie.

But whoever wrote that the serpent is Satan is lying. He’s not.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

We can start with mankind's long history of MAN dominating MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
Never before World War I was there a world war and war has not stopped since then.
Technology has proved to be a two-edged sword:
For example: Atomic Energy ( good ) Atomic Bomb ( bad )
Worldly religions like to meddle to throne and dethrone kings/political rulers.
Something will cause the political powers in charge to be saying, " Peace and Security...." - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
That rosy saying will prove to be the precursor for the political to *surprisingly* turn on the corrupted religious world.
With backing the United Nations can be strengthened to become God's modern-day arm of the law to rid the earth of corrupted religion.

Sounds like God has no real idea how to fix this.