Why I happen to be genderless.

[SESMeT]

Now that I’m thinking about it, what does it even mean to feel like a woman? Or man?

Exactly my thoughts.

I mean I don’t really dress feminine at all unless I’m going to a big fancy dinner/party or religious event. Even then I favour the trousers approach rather than a sari (half curry, I am.) But I mean even the males dress extravagantly and flamboyantly at those (compared to western culture anyway.) And it’s a special occasion, so it’s an exception not the rule.

The most traditionally feminine things I do usually revolve around me geeking out over something.

I do that a lot. And when I've done that online in the past I've had a lot of people telling me that they thought I was female. I always respond by telling them that I think it's just an absence of masculinity rather than inherently female.

I think most people draw this dichotomy where if something isn't male it's female and if something isn't female it's male. But I don't think it's a true dichotomy. I think that my non-femininity sometimes gets mistaken as masculine and my non-masculinity gets sometimes mistaken as femininity ... when in reality I just think that I'm neither. Mentally. Physically I usually look masculine. My voice is also deep enough to sound male (although I'm far more monotone than most ... at least partially due to my A.S.D.). ... but then, again, I also clearly make no effort to look male. And I don't care one iota about the fact that I'm non-brawny. I also don't see all non-jocks as nerds or all non-nerds as jocks. I think I happen to have *some* qualities that fall under the category as "nerdy" ... but plenty that don't. I identify more strongly with being *eclectic*.

But I'm absolutely 100% a geek in the Peggian sense. Or, at least, I am when I'm not anxious about being judged and I'm around somebody I'm comfortable with.

Sharing my love of classic Disney movies with my friend, but even in that scenario she is more “feminine” as she focuses on princesses and I focus on action.

I don’t wear make up and the only jewellery I do wear are pieces that actually hold emotional weight for me.

Whether it holds weight to me is what's important to me too.

I reckon that Eastern culture tends to be more gender neutral and I also think that women tend to be less judged for wearing male clothes than women do for wearing male clothes. For example, plenty of women can wear jeans without being judged but it's hard for a man to have the courage to wear a dress or a skirt without being judged.

If I was female, and *especially* if I was an Eastern female ... I'm sure I'd be a lot more noticeably gender neutral.

But ultimately it would, then, be entirely about what physically felt comfortable to me. Because I don't care how I look as long as I'm not being judged. I'm not a very brave person. I think it's fantastic when people fight stigma. And perhaps it's unfair to myself to say I'm not brave .... because if I actually had gender dysphoria or felt strong about any particular gender ... I'm sure I'd be, then, much more motivated to fight against any stigma. It wouldn't be easy but I'd at least be motivated. There isn't really any reason for me to not follow the path of least resistance when I'm so indifferent. Does that make sense?

I like shiny ear rings, does that count?

I don't see any of this as gendered .... because I see gender roles as distinct from gender itself and I see gender roles as just social constructs and gender itself as something that most people feel and understand but I don't.

All that matters to me is that you like what you like

Isn’t gender on a spectrum anyway? And if you have none, then that’s cool too.

I do think it's absolutely on a spectrum. Which is why I don't see male and female as a true dichotomy and why I don't think that my absence of masculinity, when I'm geeking out, is at all feminine. And it's also why I don't think my absence of femininity is masculine, either.

I guess I have experienced life as a woman, but I feel like Aussie culture is much more relaxed than other Western countries when it comes to gender expression, I can’t really speak of female experience in the west. Just my slice of Australiastan life.

I could be wrong but Australia seems quite big on free expression in general and I like that.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I don't know what it would mean for me to feel male or female. For that reason I am genderless. I am sure that there are plenty of people who do know what such a thing means, perhaps in virtue of them knowing what that feels like, but it is something that does not apply to myself. My thought is that if I felt such a way I would be aware of it but I'm not aware of it so I don't feel it.

What I wonder is ... as a genderless person is it not possible for me to really know what it feels like to be male or female?

I don't know that there is a "feeling" that one is supposed to have associated with each gender. I identify as male but have no idea what "feeling male" means.

 

[Deeje]

Also @Deeje, mate, I never realised just how open minded you were about gender issues. That’s really cool, man.

I am open to learning about human nature and its many expressions. There is no judgment....I just want to understand so that I can walk a few steps in someone else's shoes.

 

[SomeRandom]

I do that a lot. And when I've done that online in the past I've had a lot of people telling me that they thought I was female. I always respond by telling them that I think it's just an absence of masculinity rather than inherently female.

It’s funny, it’s sort of the opposite for me. Whenever I geek out online, others are surprised that I am actually a female. I like explosions and gore and gaming and drinking. I chalk it up to being raised by a bunch of truckers lol

I think most people draw this dichotomy where if something isn't male it's female and if something isn't female it's male. But I don't think it's a true dichotomy. I think that my non-femininity sometimes gets mistaken as masculine and my non-masculinity gets sometimes mistaken as femininity ... when in reality I just think that I'm neither. Mentally. Physically I usually look masculine. My voice is also deep enough to sound male (although I'm far more monotone than most ... at least partially due to my A.S.D.). ... but then, again, I also clearly make no effort to look male. And I don't care one iota about the fact that I'm non-brawny. I also don't see all non-jocks as nerds or all non-nerds as jocks. I think I happen to have *some* qualities that fall under the category as "nerdy" ... but plenty that don't. I identify more strongly with being *eclectic*.

Ehh, the whole jock nerd thing is more of an American phenomenon. I mean we have sporty types, popular types and scholarly types here too. Obviously. But since we lack that whole school spirit/sports obsessed culture (well, I mean we do love sports here, but maybe not as extreme as America?) present in America, we don’t really have firmly established dichotomies.

But I'm absolutely 100% a geek in the Peggian sense. Or, at least, I am when I'm not anxious about being judged and I'm around somebody I'm comfortable with.
.

Hells yeah, geeks unite!!

Whether it holds weight to me is what's important to me too.

Yeah, I mean I will wear jewellery on occasion but I constantly wear two necklaces, with pendants. They are from several family members, so it’s more sentimental.

I reckon that Eastern culture tends to be more gender neutral and I also think that women tend to be less judged for wearing male clothes than women do for wearing male clothes. For example, plenty of women can wear jeans without being judged but it's hard for a man to have the courage to wear a dress or a skirt without being judged.
.

I don’t know about gender neutral as much as Eastern cultures just have different standards of gender expression. For instance in Indian culture (or at least the variation in Australiastan) it’s perfectly acceptable for a man to wear silk made suits of various often vibrant colours, purple, red, green, blue etc. Flower garlands and jewellery is also acceptable for both genders. But in the West this might be seen as feminine or even homosexual if a man wears such things. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.)

If I was female, and *especially* if I was an Eastern female ... I'm sure I'd be a lot more noticeably gender neutral.

Haha, probably. I do think women are held to more strict standards in Eastern culture than Western. Thankfully my more “masculine traits” were usually brushed off as proof of my Westernisation. So I was able to fly under the radar, for the most part.

But ultimately it would, then, be entirely about what physically felt comfortable to me. Because I don't care how I look as long as I'm not being judged. I'm not a very brave person. I think it's fantastic when people fight stigma. And perhaps it's unfair to myself to say I'm not brave .... because if I actually had gender dysphoria or felt strong about any particular gender ... I'm sure I'd be, then, much more motivated to fight against any stigma. It wouldn't be easy but I'd at least be motivated. There isn't really any reason for me to not follow the path of least resistance when I'm so indifferent. Does that make sense?

I get it.

I don't see any of this as gendered .... because I see gender roles as distinct from gender itself and I see gender roles as just social constructs and gender itself as something that most people feel and understand but I don't.

I don’t really feel anything, with regards to female or male. So I don’t know. I feel kinship with other females, I guess??? But I mean, what even is it to feel female? I feel like a human being. Being female is just a happenstance.

I do think it's absolutely on a spectrum. Which is why I don't see male and female as a true dichotomy and why I don't think that my absence of masculinity, when I'm geeking out, is at all feminine. And it's also why I don't think my absence of femininity is masculine, either.

Well since sex is on a spectrum I’m inclined to agree. People are people and notions of masculinity and femininity are entirely dependant on culture and often the era.

I could be wrong but Australia seems quite big on free expression in general and I like that.

Perhaps. It could also be that we’re just too busy fighting off nature and drinking beer to care

 

[Deeje]

Well since sex is on a spectrum I’m inclined to agree. People are people and notions of masculinity and femininity are entirely dependant on culture and often the era.

I was reading that in some cultures they have a third and fourth gender....there is male and female, then there is a feminine male and a masculine female.

From early childhood it is often easy to tell a child's gender identity by the way they play.
Little girls are drawn to 'girly' things and boys are drawn to 'masculine things'....but we will always have men with softer more feminine traits and personalities, and women who are not "girly' at all.

I was raised in a family of girls. As the middle child, I was always different to my sisters. They were 'girly' and I was not. They gravitated to dolls, but I never wanted one. I had a much loved Teddy Bear instead. My toys were cars, cricket bats and more boyish things.

I hated the '*****iness' of girls at school and gravitated more to the boys for company (and the occasional wrestling match), they accepted me more like one of their mates. But that did not mean that I was gender dysphoric. It simply meant that I was in every way a girl, but had no need for the frills and fancy stuff...I still don't.

I loved being a wife and mother and my own daughter was also like me...not very 'girly'. Now my granddaughter is presenting the same way. It appears to be more genetic than programmed I think. I was raised in a household of 'girly girls' but I had no interest in being ultra feminine. I live in pants and rarely wear dresses or skirts.

Perhaps it is what you mentioned about a spectrum....."ultra" on either end and everything in between.

Perhaps. It could also be that we’re just too busy fighting off nature and drinking beer to care

Us Aussies are pretty laid back.....we call a spade a spade and make no apologies for being who we are. Some people think we are rude, but we just like to speak our mind. If things get too politically correct we might end up offending ourselves.

 

[SomeRandom]

I was reading that in some cultures they have a third and fourth gender....there is male and female, then there is a feminine male and a masculine female.

In my own culture we have three. The third being referred to as the “Hijra.”

Hijra (South Asia) - Wikipedia
In some circles it is considered very inauspicious to offend a trans person and many festivals often rely on them to function properly.
This comes down to a sort of “ancient wisdom” of feminine and masculine being primarily energies. These energies manifesting themselves in people to varying degrees. At least that was the explanation given to me.

From early childhood it is often easy to tell a child's gender identity by the way they play.
Little girls are drawn to 'girly' things and boys are drawn to 'masculine things'....but we will always have men with softer more feminine traits and personalities, and women who are not "girly' at all.

I was raised in a family of girls. As the middle child, I was always different to my sisters. They were 'girly' and I was not. They gravitated to dolls, but I never wanted one. I had a much loved Teddy Bear instead. My toys were cars, cricket bats and more boyish things.

I hated the '*****iness' of girls at school and gravitated more to the boys for company (and the occasional wrestling match), they accepted me more like one of their mates. But that did not mean that I was gender dysphoric. It simply meant that I was in every way a girl, but had no need for the frills and fancy stuff...I still don't.

Lol you sound a lot like me. Only I’m an only child (read spoilt brat )

I loved being a wife and mother and my own daughter was also like me...not very 'girly'. Now my granddaughter is presenting the same way. It appears to be more genetic than programmed I think. I was raised in a household of 'girly girls' but I had no interest in being ultra feminine. I live in pants and rarely wear dresses or skirts.

My mother often comments I have traits of her mother. My dad said the same. Though I only met my Tata-ji (mother’s father) when I was like 7, as the rest of my grandparents had sadly died before I was born. Tata-Ji not long after, really. I think I was only 8.
Right now I’m not interested in having kids. But both my parents had me rather late so perhaps I’m destined to follow suit.
Though I enjoy being an Aunty. Particularly since I can give the little blighters back

Perhaps it is what you mentioned about a spectrum....."ultra" on either end and everything in between.

I think so. I mean there are so many different personalities, why would femininity and masculinity be anything other than shades of grey, with black and white flanking either side?

Us Aussies are pretty laid back.....we call a spade a spade and make no apologies for being who we are. Some people think we are rude, but we just like to speak our mind. If things get too politically correct we might end up offending ourselves.

Bloody oath mate!

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well as a male and having always felt as a male (no questioning as to such), and having always being attracted to females, it is difficult to appreciate how others feel about such things, but this is one forum where I like the open dialogue about such matters, and the open-mindedness of most of those who participate. I'm sure many of us learn a lot and appreciate such discussions. Not sure how the future will unfold but I hope it means more tolerance for those not defined by the binary male/female directive.

 

[syo]

I don't know what it would mean for me to feel male or female

It's easy. Listen to your innate jealousy.

 

[SESMeT]

It's easy. Listen to your innate jealousy.

But aren't men, women and non-binary people all equally capable of jealousy?

 

[syo]

But aren't men, women and non-binary people all equally capable of jealousy?

Yup.

See the target of jealousy.

If you see a very beautiful woman how do you react? Do you want to have sex with her? Or do you want to copy her? Do you see her as a role model? Or as a mother to your kid?

Jealousy is multifaceted.

 

[SESMeT]

Yup.

See the target of jealousy.

If you see a very beautiful woman how do you react? Do you want to have sex with her? Or do you want to copy her? Do you see her as a role model? Or as a mother to your kid?

Jealousy is multifaceted.

I either want sex with her, I see her as a role model or both.

Or I just want a friendship with her.

Or I want a friendship + romance + sex + she is my role model. That is ideal.