Why Hadith can NOT be part of Islam

[Union]

All was ask is a verse that says Quran is complete.

if you says complete as for our purpose on Earth, our exisence, our salvation

please provide a verse from Quran only,
if we are to follow the religion of Abraham, who is israel to Abraham?
who is the mother of first mankind (Adam is the father)
through what means can we attain salavation

n regards to picking nose, hadith has explained that in details

thank you

Hi there . Draupadi and Aamer already tried to make you understand that Qur'an is complete and detailed but as a guidance for salvation and worshiping GOD . It is not a history or science book but used all the branches of science to reinforce the prime objective of the Qur'an - worshiping One GOD and in process to attain salvation .

Hence knowing the names what is not in Qur'an can be a historical quest not a religious quest .The followjg verses are self-explalntory to limelight this fact :

[039:027] We have put forth for men, in this Quran every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.
[039:028] (It is) a Quran in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.

Whatsover , your another inquiry to show you a verse where the completeness of the Qur'an is procalimed . This conclusion can be achived from different verses of the Qur'an . Please bear with me .


01. [006:114] Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

02. [007:052] For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.

03. [018:054] We have explained in detail in this Quran, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

04. [041:003] A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Quran in Arabic, for people who understand;-

05.Another way to look into it :

[040:007] Those who bear the Throne, and all who are round about it, hymn the praises of their Lord and believe in Him and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): Our Lord! Thou comprehendest all things in mercy and knowledge, therefor forgive those who repent and follow Thy way. Ward off from them the punishment of hell.

[002:255] Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.

[006:080] And his people disputed with him. He said: Do you dispute with me respecting Allah? And He has guided me indeed; and I do not fear in any way those that you set up with Him, unless my Lord pleases; my Lord comprehends all things in His knowledge; will you not then mind?

[007:089] "We should indeed invent a lie against God, if we returned to your ways after God hath rescued us therefrom; nor could we by any manner of means return thereto unless it be as in the will and plan of God, Our Lord. Our Lord can reach out to the utmost recesses of things by His knowledge. In the God is our trust. our Lord! decide Thou between us and our people in truth, for Thou art the best to decide."

[020:098] But the god of you all is the One God: there is no god but He: all things He comprehends in His knowledge.

[006:059] With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read).

Therefore , ALLAH’s (SWT) knowledge is complete , perfect, self-sufficient, absolute, independent and encompasses all things . ………………………………………(1)

Now let look at the following set of verses :


[004:166] But Allah bears witness by what He has revealed to you that He has revealed it with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness (also); and Allah is sufficient as a witness.

[011:014] "If then they (your false gods) answer not your (call), know ye that this revelation is sent down (replete) with the knowledge of God, and that there is no god but He! will ye even then submit (to Islam)?"

The above verses say that the Quran was revealed with the knowledge of ALLAH (SWT) . ………………........(2)

Now if we combine (1) and (2) it becomes evident that the Qur’an is complete , perfect, detailed , self-sufficient , self-contained and includes all necessary information because Almighty GOD's knowledge is also perfect and complete . It doesn’t need any external source to rely on since it was revealed with the knowledge of GOD .

 

[restnrelax]

Hi there . Draupadi and Aamer already tried to make you understand that Qur'an is complete and detailed but as a guidance for salvation and worshiping GOD . It is not a history or science book but used all the branches of science to reinforce the prime objective of the Qur'an - worshiping One GOD and in process to attain salvation .

Hence knowing the names what is not in Qur'an can be a historical quest not a religious quest .The followjg verses are self-explalntory to limelight this fact :

[039:027] We have put forth for men, in this Quran every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.
[039:028] (It is) a Quran in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.

Whatsover , your another inquiry to show you a verse where the completeness of the Qur'an is procalimed . This conclusion can be achived from different verses of the Qur'an . Please bear with me .


01. [006:114] Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

02. [007:052] For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.

03. [018:054] We have explained in detail in this Quran, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

04. [041:003] A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Quran in Arabic, for people who understand;-

05.Another way to look into it :

[040:007] Those who bear the Throne, and all who are round about it, hymn the praises of their Lord and believe in Him and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): Our Lord! Thou comprehendest all things in mercy and knowledge, therefor forgive those who repent and follow Thy way. Ward off from them the punishment of hell.

[002:255] Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.

[006:080] And his people disputed with him. He said: Do you dispute with me respecting Allah? And He has guided me indeed; and I do not fear in any way those that you set up with Him, unless my Lord pleases; my Lord comprehends all things in His knowledge; will you not then mind?

[007:089] "We should indeed invent a lie against God, if we returned to your ways after God hath rescued us therefrom; nor could we by any manner of means return thereto unless it be as in the will and plan of God, Our Lord. Our Lord can reach out to the utmost recesses of things by His knowledge. In the God is our trust. our Lord! decide Thou between us and our people in truth, for Thou art the best to decide."

[020:098] But the god of you all is the One God: there is no god but He: all things He comprehends in His knowledge.

[006:059] With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read).

Therefore , ALLAH’s (SWT) knowledge is complete , perfect, self-sufficient, absolute, independent and encompasses all things . ………………………………………(1)

Now let look at the following set of verses :


[004:166] But Allah bears witness by what He has revealed to you that He has revealed it with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness (also); and Allah is sufficient as a witness.

[011:014] "If then they (your false gods) answer not your (call), know ye that this revelation is sent down (replete) with the knowledge of God, and that there is no god but He! will ye even then submit (to Islam)?"

The above verses say that the Quran was revealed with the knowledge of ALLAH (SWT) . ………………........(2)

Now if we combine (1) and (2) it becomes evident that the Qur’an is complete , perfect, detailed , self-sufficient , self-contained and includes all necessary information because Almighty GOD's knowledge is also perfect and complete . It doesn’t need any external source to rely on since it was revealed with the knowledge of GOD .

Appreciate your input sir

I am well aware what Quran is but if we to understand it as complete, one need to know everything related to the story mentioned in Quran.
otherwise what one follow in Quran may well be conjecture.

if one to say Quran is complete, in what aspect is the completion if i may ask?
guidance for salvation? worshiping God? as you put it

what is the guidance for salvation?
if Quran, show the verse that specifically said to follow Quran ONLY

worshiping of God?
i believe bayt, kaabah, kiblat and the sacrificial of animals are part of the worshiped
share your understanding who started it, who is it for and where is the place

in Quran, Tawraat is called Tawraat, Injeel is injeel and Quran is Quran

and refer to verse you gave in 6:114
[006:114] Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

when Allah very specified with His words,
why was Book used but not any of the name mentioned above?

is there another book that we not know of? or
is that book refer to any of His scriptures?

if one to refer it as Quran, can others refer it as Tawraat or injeel

and regards to your theory of 1 and 2,
does any of the verse you provide says Quran is complete?
or how you can conclude it was Quran not tawraat or injeel?? when none of the name was mentioned?
is Quran the ONLY book He revealed or are you just guessing?

 

[Draupadi]

Quote- what is the guidance for salvation?

Following Islam is the way of salvation. Islam doesn't have the concept of Original Sin.

Quote- is there another book that we not know of? or
is that book refer to any of His scriptures? if one to refer it as Quran, can others refer it as Tawraat or injeel

Union has already mentioned and even highlighted the parts that says the Quran is complete. For finding about the lives of the prophets there are historians and the likes. The thing is some people find it hard to accept the Quran as complete because most other religious scriptures are like story books.

The Quran does talk about many books and prophets whose names were not mentioned. But if the Quran only deals with a few things doesn't make it incomplete. God doesn't want to bother us with other things. And the Quran is better than previous Islamic scriptures according to the Quran. So God didn't think it necessary to rewrite their contents. Even there were some differences in rules laws in those books (they were for a particular time and people). And again God has left the discovery of those previous scriptures in our hands. He didn't make us ashraful makhlukhat so that we be spoon fed. We can have that in paradise .

 

[restnrelax]

Quote- what is the guidance for salvation?

Following Islam is the way of salvation. Islam doesn't have the concept of Original Sin.

Quote- is there another book that we not know of? or
is that book refer to any of His scriptures? if one to refer it as Quran, can others refer it as Tawraat or injeel

Union has already mentioned and even highlighted the parts that says the Quran is complete. For finding about the lives of the prophets there are historians and the likes. The thing is some people find it hard to accept the Quran as complete because most other religious scriptures are like story books.

The Quran does talk about many books and prophets whose names were not mentioned. But if the Quran only deals with a few things doesn't make it incomplete. God doesn't want to bother us with other things. And the Quran is better than previous Islamic scriptures according to the Quran. So God didn't think it necessary to rewrite their contents. Even there were some differences in rules laws in those books (they were for a particular time and people). And again God has left the discovery of those previous scriptures in our hands. He didn't make us ashraful makhlukhat so that we be spoon fed. We can have that in paradise .

Following Islam is the way of salvation. Islam doesn't have the concept of Original Sin.

how you follow islam if not following Quran?
and in Quran there are no verse that says Quran is complete
but why you say otherwise?
are you following Quran or not?

in all the verse given by Union, not even one that says Quran is complete
but rather a conjecture he make up to fits his understanding

And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? 54:17/22/32/40

4 times that particular verse was said in Quran but I dont recall anyone here brought the verse asked?
is it too much to ask for a simple plain and direct ayat that says
'Quran is complete'?

if there isnt, why you keep harping Quran is complete?
if worship of God is complete to you, are you ready to share your understanding what being asked?

so what is bayt, kaabah, kiblat and sacrificial of animals for in Quran?
you find many of such ayat used in Quran and I believe those are part of worship

so please show the verse that says;
who does it first and how/where are we to perform it.

surely a complete Quran can tell us that in detail

 

[Union]

how you follow islam if not following Quran?
and in Quran there are no verse that says Quran is complete
but why you say otherwise?
are you following Quran or not?

in all the verse given by Union, not even one that says Quran is complete
but rather a conjecture he make up to fits his understanding

And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? 54:17/22/32/40

4 times that particular verse was said in Quran but I dont recall anyone here brought the verse asked?
is it too much to ask for a simple plain and direct ayat that says
'Quran is complete'?

if there isnt, why you keep harping Quran is complete?
if worship of God is complete to you, are you ready to share your understanding what being asked?

so what is bayt, kaabah, kiblat and sacrificial of animals for in Quran?
you find many of such ayat used in Quran and I believe those are part of worship

so please show the verse that says;
who does it first and how/where are we to perform it.

surely a complete Quran can tell us that in detail

The verses said that Qur'an is explained in detail , consists every kind of examples , composed with GOD's knowledge etc. What all that refer to you ? I don't know ...

 

[Union]

Appreciate your input sir

I am well aware what Quran is but if we to understand it as complete, one need to know everything related to the story mentioned in Quran.
otherwise what one follow in Quran may well be conjecture.

if one to say Quran is complete, in what aspect is the completion if i may ask?
guidance for salvation? worshiping God? as you put it

what is the guidance for salvation?
if Quran, show the verse that specifically said to follow Quran ONLY

worshiping of God?
i believe bayt, kaabah, kiblat and the sacrificial of animals are part of the worshiped
share your understanding who started it, who is it for and where is the place

in Quran, Tawraat is called Tawraat, Injeel is injeel and Quran is Quran

and refer to verse you gave in 6:114
[006:114] Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

when Allah very specified with His words,
why was Book used but not any of the name mentioned above?

is there another book that we not know of? or
is that book refer to any of His scriptures?

if one to refer it as Quran, can others refer it as Tawraat or injeel

and regards to your theory of 1 and 2,
does any of the verse you provide says Quran is complete?
or how you can conclude it was Quran not tawraat or injeel?? when none of the name was mentioned?
is Quran the ONLY book He revealed or are you just guessing?

Well another inquiry I guess is needed to address . You object the verses where just 'The Book' is mentioned and ask a valid question that how do we know it is Qur'an , not Injeel and Torah ? Now my friend you are stepping into the Arabic grammar of the Qur'an . Please read the verse in Arabic :

‏6:114 افغير الله ابتغى حكما وهو الذي انزل اليكم الكتاب مفصلا والذين اتيناهم الكتاب يعلمون انه منزل من ربك بالحق فلا تكونن من الممترين

The passive participle منزل (is sent down ) is referring to object pronoun انه (that it ) which in turn referring to the الكتاب ( the book ) . A person with grammatical knowledge will surely comprehend that 'it' in the verse is Qur'an which is 'the book' .

Another notable thing to look at this verse is the recipient of 'the book' is in 2-nd person plural form (اليكم - to you) , which also refers to the people of Qur'an . If it would be Injeel or Torah , it would be 'to them' and not 'to you'.

You can apply the same grammatical observation in verse 4.166 and 11.14 . For your ease I am just hinting the notable words with its grammatical notion :

‏4:166 لكن الله يشهد بما انزل اليك(*) انزله(**) بعلمه والملائكة يشهدون وكفى بالله شهيدا

* 'Ka' is 02-nd person singular masculine object pronoun = 'to you' means Prophet Muhammad .
** 'Hu' added there is singular object pronoun= 'It' means Qur'an.

‏11:14 فالم يستجيبوا لكم(*) فاعلموا انما انزل(**) بعلم الله وان لااله الا هو فهل انتم مسلمون

* 'Kum' is 02-nd person plural object pronoun = 'to you' means the recipient of Qur'an .
** 'Unjila' is in passive form but singular = 'It was revealed' referring to Qur'an .

Thanks .

 

[restnrelax]

The verses said that Qur'an is explained in detail , consists every kind of examples , composed with GOD's knowledge etc. What all that refer to you ? I don't know ...

Then We gave Moses the Scripture, making complete upon the one who did good and as a detailed explanation of all things and as guidance and mercy
that perhaps in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord they would believe. 6:154

the Scripture given to Moses was a detailed explanation
does that make it a complete Scripture?

 

[restnrelax]

Well another inquiry I guess is needed to address . You object the verses where just 'The Book' is mentioned and ask a valid question that how do we know it is Qur'an , not Injeel and Torah ? Now my friend you are stepping into the Arabic grammar of the Qur'an . Please read the verse in Arabic :

‏6:114 افغير الله ابتغى حكما وهو الذي انزل اليكم الكتاب مفصلا والذين اتيناهم الكتاب يعلمون انه منزل من ربك بالحق فلا تكونن من الممترين

The passive participle منزل (is sent down ) is referring to object pronoun انه (that it ) which in turn referring to the الكتاب ( the book ) . A person with grammatical knowledge will surely comprehend that 'it' in the verse is Qur'an which is 'the book' .

Another notable thing to look at this verse is the recipient of 'the book' is in 2-nd person plural form (اليكم - to you) , which also refers to the people of Qur'an . If it would be Injeel or Torah , it would be 'to them' and not 'to you'.

You can apply the same grammatical observation in verse 4.166 and 11.14 . For your ease I am just hinting the notable words with its grammatical notion :

‏4:166 لكن الله يشهد بما انزل اليك(*) انزله(**) بعلمه والملائكة يشهدون وكفى بالله شهيدا

* 'Ka' is 02-nd person singular masculine object pronoun = 'to you' means Prophet Muhammad .
** 'Hu' added there is singular object pronoun= 'It' means Qur'an.

‏11:14 فالم يستجيبوا لكم(*) فاعلموا انما انزل(**) بعلم الله وان لااله الا هو فهل انتم مسلمون

* 'Kum' is 02-nd person plural object pronoun = 'to you' means the recipient of Qur'an .
** 'Unjila' is in passive form but singular = 'It was revealed' referring to Qur'an .

Thanks .

why cant we approach Quran as it is
when it says it easy to remember why are we making it difficult?

do people of the book refer to people of Quran?
are His scriptures other than Quran to be denied?
is Quran the only book revealed?
is Quran only talked about Muhammad?
is Muhammad the only prophet?

if all the answer is NO, why are we trying hard to make it the opposite

try learn not to distinguish His prophets
and learn not to distinguish His books

then you will understand what it means by complete

 

[Union]

Then We gave Moses the Scripture, making complete upon the one who did good and as a detailed explanation of all things and as guidance and mercy
that perhaps in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord they would believe. 6:154

the Scripture given to Moses was a detailed explanation
does that make it a complete Scripture?

Of course . Also please note the closing remark of ALLAH (swt) ,'.... the meeting with their Lord they would believe' . This explains the nature and purpose of the completeness of Torah . It is all about the salvation and acknowledging Almighty GOD . The same case applies to Qur'an's completeness as we tried to elaborate to you earlier . Hope it makes sense much better to you now .

 

[Union]

why cant we approach Quran as it is
when it says it easy to remember why are we making it difficult?

do people of the book refer to people of Quran?
are His scriptures other than Quran to be denied?
is Quran the only book revealed?
is Quran only talked about Muhammad?
is Muhammad the only prophet?

if all the answer is NO, why are we trying hard to make it the opposite

try learn not to distinguish His prophets
and learn not to distinguish His books

then you will understand what it means by complete

We approached to Qur'an as it is , as it is in Arabic not in English . Even the biggest enemy of the Qur'an has no problem to understand those verses related to Qur'an if s/he knows basic Arabic grammar .

Those who completely deny the completeness of the Qur'an also understand those verses to be related the Qur'an . For example see some Tafsirs of the verse 6.114 :

AlQuran-tafsir | Qur'an & Hadith | Alim.org

http://www.alim.org/library/quran/AlQuran-tafsir/MDD/6/116
​

Tafsir Maududi- Surah 6. Al-An'am, Ayaat 114 To 115

أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا ۚ وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِنْ رَبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ١١٤وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًا وَعَدْلًا ۚ لَا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَاتِهِ ۚ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ١١٥​

[114-115] This being so, should I seek a judge other than Allah. whereas He has sent down to you the Book with full details?81 And the people whom We gave the Book (before you) know that this Book has been sent down to you with the Truth from your Lord; so you should not be of those who have doubts82 The Word of your Lord is perfect in regard to Truth and justice; there is none who can make any change in His decrees for He hears everything and knows everything.




81The `speaker' in this sentence is the Holy Prophet and the addressees are his followers, who desired that a Sign should be shown for the conversion of the disbelievers. They have been told that no Sign will be shown, for Allah had made all the realities plain in the Qur'an. As regards their conflict with falsehood, He has decreed that the followers of the Truth will have to exert for its domination in the natural way without expecting any supernatural intervention from Him. The Holy Prophet has, therefore, been asked to declare, "Should I, then, seek some authority higher than Allah to revise His decree and to send down such a miracle as should force them to believe?" (Please refer also to E.N. 76).




82That is, "These principles, that have been laid down for the domination of the Truth, are not new ones which might have been invented today to explain away the difficulties and obstacles of the Way. All those people, who possess the knowledge of the Divine Books and are acquainted with the Mission of the Prophets, will bear testimony that whatever is being stated in the Qur'an is the very Truth, which is eternal and has never changed. "

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ أَفَغَيْرَ ٱللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَماً وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِيۤ أَنَزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلاً وَٱلَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِٱلْحَقِّ فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ ٱلْمُمْتَرِينَ }

The following was revealed when they asked the Prophet (s) to appoint an arbiter between him and themselves. Say: Shall I seek, demand, other than God as a judge, an arbiter between you and me, when it is He Who revealed to you the Book, the Qur’ān, clearly explained?, wherein truth is distinguished from falsehood. Those to whom We have given the Scripture, the Torah, the likes of ‘Abd Allāh b. Salām and his companions, know that it is revealed (read munzal or munazzal) from your Lord in truth; so do not be of the waverers, the doubters, regarding it: this is intended to affirm to the disbelievers that it is the truth.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
​

{ أَفَغَيْرَ ٱللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَماً وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِيۤ أَنَزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلاً وَٱلَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ ٱلْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِٱلْحَقِّ فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ ٱلْمُمْتَرِينَ }

Then, say to them, O Muhammad: (Shall I seek other than Allah for judge) shall I worship as Lord other than Allah, (when He it is who has revealed unto you) you are your prophet ((this) Scripture) this Qur'an through the intermediary of Gabriel, (fully explained?) explaining fully the lawful and the unlawful; it is also said: it is revealed in instalments, a few verses on each occasion. (Those unto whom We gave the Scripture) those to whom We have given knowledge of the Torah, i.e. 'Abdullah Ibn Salam and his followers (know) are certain on the basis of their Scripture (that it) i.e. the Qur'an (is revealed from thy Lord in truth) with commands and prohibitions; it is also said that this means: Gabriel is sent by your Lord with the Truth, i.e. with the Qur'an. (So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers) of those who doubt that they might not know this.

 

[Draupadi]

Quran is not the only book of Islam. But God didn't mention the contents of the previous books because whatever needed from there is mentioned here. There are verses in the Quran that says that the Quran confirms what was in the past Scriptures. And about kibla, kaba, etc., there are already mentions of it in the book. But not as detailed as the Ahadith, becaue those details are UNNECESSARY and WERE ADDED 200 YEARS AFTER MUHAMMAD'S DEATH. It should be noted that in a particular hadith he forbade his followers to write anything about him and asked them to follow only the Quran. There are even sayings in the Ahadith that goes blasphemously against the Quran but the Ahadith writers never bothered about it. The Quran says that God had created humans and djinns for His worship only. But the Ahadith adds that this world was created for Muhammad. If that was the case then our prophet would have indeed lead a very comfortable life, which was not the case.

Finally, I would like to say that if you feel like it please read the Quran for yourself and see if Union, Aamer and I are making things up. I am sorry but you seem to be bent on not believing us.

 

[restnrelax]

Of course . Also please note the closing remark of ALLAH (swt) ,'.... the meeting with their Lord they would believe' . This explains the nature and purpose of the completeness of Torah . It is all about the salvation and acknowledging Almighty GOD . The same case applies to Qur'an's completeness as we tried to elaborate to you earlier . Hope it makes sense much better to you now .

so we have 2 complete book, one is Torah and Quran the other.
can we include Injeel too though I cant find it being said of the same multitude?

but which is the correct to follow when all is also a complete book?

 

[restnrelax]

We approached to Qur'an as it is , as it is in Arabic not in English . Even the biggest enemy of the Qur'an has no problem to understand those verses related to Qur'an if s/he knows basic Arabic grammar .

Those who completely deny the completeness of the Qur'an also understand those verses to be related the Qur'an . For example see some Tafsirs of the verse 6.114 :

OMG!! I cannot believe you have chose the same path as the sect does;
'being Quran is only good for Arabic speaker and
ulamak tafseer is the best tafseer'

what next, we will be kafir if we read from the translations only?

are you saying those translators in Noble Quran have used the wrong grammar in their translations?
are you implying they are not well versed in Classical Arabic Language?

Allah is very precised in choosing His words and when you tafseer Book as Quran,
unknowingly you have also turn 'People Of The Book' as 'People Of Quran'.

Really??

 

[restnrelax]

Quran is not the only book of Islam. But God didn't mention the contents of the previous books because whatever needed from there is mentioned here. There are verses in the Quran that says that the Quran confirms what was in the past Scriptures. And about kibla, kaba, etc., there are already mentions of it in the book. But not as detailed as the Ahadith, becaue those details are UNNECESSARY and WERE ADDED 200 YEARS AFTER MUHAMMAD'S DEATH. It should be noted that in a particular hadith he forbade his followers to write anything about him and asked them to follow only the Quran. There are even sayings in the Ahadith that goes blasphemously against the Quran but the Ahadith writers never bothered about it. The Quran says that God had created humans and djinns for His worship only. But the Ahadith adds that this world was created for Muhammad. If that was the case then our prophet would have indeed lead a very comfortable life, which was not the case.

Finally, I would like to say that if you feel like it please read the Quran for yourself and see if Union, Aamer and I are making things up. I am sorry but you seem to be bent on not believing us.

Here help you find the verse you were asking;
He has sent down upon you, the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. 3:3

Quran is to confirm what was written in Torah and the Gospel
Meaning if we not sure what in Quran, we are to check in both Torah and the Gospel for clarification or vice versa.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed. So ask the people of the message if you do not know. 16:43

Have we been doing that?
If we do, perhaps bayt, kaabah or the sacrificial of animals will not be an issue.

I am trying hard to believe what you and the others are saying but
your claimed being Quran is complete doesn't hold water, to me at least.
otherwise you can easily produce what was asked.

Btw, please stop your hadith ranting on me.
It didnt really matter to me because I dont subscribe to man-made scripture.

 

[Draupadi]

Muslims believe that today's Torah and Gospel are corrupted. IMHO the ones mentioned in the Quran are the real ones which if God wills will be found in the future. But the Ahadith that you asked me to rant about, especially its earlier statements, claim that today's Torah and Gospels are the real deal. But many don't have any idea about it.

 

[restnrelax]

Muslims believe that today's Torah and Gospel are corrupted. IMHO the ones mentioned in the Quran are the real ones which if God wills will be found in the future. But the Ahadith that you asked me to rant about, especially its earlier statements, claim that today's Torah and Gospels are the real deal. But many don't have any idea about it.

have you read any of it to make such a claim?

prophet's enemy are trying hard to keep people away from His scriptures.
started with Quran if to read alone with no hadith support can be deviated or worst a sin to read the translated copies
and now Torah and Gospel has become their next target.

And who believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. 2:4

This is the path of thy Lord, a straight path. We have detailed Our revelations for a people who take heed. 6:126

did we adhere to those message?

my friendly advise, read it as how you first read Quran for guidance.

 

[beenie]

Translated by Sahih International:

Surah Al-Mai'dah, 5:3

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

"This day" means this day, not hundreds of years later written from memory of two generations later. Nowhere does it say, "please refer to the Ahadith, which is subject to interpretations and limitations much like the game of 'telephone'."

The Muslim world would be in a lot less turmoil and trouble if they lived by the Qur'an only.

 

[Union]

so we have 2 complete book, one is Torah and Quran the other.
can we include Injeel too though I cant find it being said of the same multitude?

but which is the correct to follow when all is also a complete book?

You are a naughty boy , does not want to go through your own home-work attentively . It says , 'I gave the scripture to Moses.....' and about Injeel it says ,' I gave scripture to Jesus.....'

Today's OT and NT are far away from this claim , even Jews and Christians admitted this fact .

 

[Union]

OMG!! I cannot believe you have chose the same path as the sect does;
'being Quran is only good for Arabic speaker and
ulamak tafseer is the best tafseer'

what next, we will be kafir if we read from the translations only?

are you saying those translators in Noble Quran have used the wrong grammar in their translations?
are you implying they are not well versed in Classical Arabic Language?

Allah is very precised in choosing His words and when you tafseer Book as Quran,
unknowingly you have also turn 'People Of The Book' as 'People Of Quran'.

Really??

I think you are just spending your leisure time in this thread . Please come with a real deal not a load of what you think ..

 

[Union]

Muslims believe that today's Torah and Gospel are corrupted. IMHO the ones mentioned in the Quran are the real ones which if God wills will be found in the future. But the Ahadith that you asked me to rant about, especially its earlier statements, claim that today's Torah and Gospels are the real deal. But many don't have any idea about it.

Thanks dear for bringing this real fact . But I don't think this guy , what his name , oh yah 'rest n relax' sleep will ever wake-up .