Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?

[Beaudreaux]

Evil, pain, suffering and even death are bio-feedback mechanisms God has given us to AVOID them.

Death is a bio-feedback mechanism? Could you please explain that, because I think you have a deep misunderstanding of either bio-feedback, or death, or maybe both.

We are indeed sentient beings. How did we get here? How did our philosophy, science and religion develop? Largely from these very same bio-feedback mechanisms.

So...Plagues, droughts, famines, natural disaster....these helped give us philosophy, science and religion. Is that you you would explain things to a friend who's child is dying of Leukemia? Or maybe you could explain that their 10 year old is getting bio-feedback.

God designed evolution to work in a particular manner. That includes pain, pleasure, life and death in order for it to work. They work hand in hand like the night works with the day or hot works with cold.

So....it was not possible for God to design a world where millions of children died painful, drawn out deaths from SmallPox. He couldn't figure out a way to have life without that. Not very omnipotent of him, is it?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Humans are unhappy because they make themselves unhappy. Thats reality.

Dont blame god...cause you missed the mark. Most people blame the devil for that but its become unfashionable so its quite the in thing to blame god for our missery.

Humans like to do whatever makes themselves look good. Its that burning feeling of 'oops i screwed up' and now i have to find someone to blame. Who shall it be today? God?

Unless we find someone else to blame...we cant sleep well at night. But the nagging feeling that humanity has screwed up is not going to go away..and neither is god. What might just end up in oblivion are humans who blame god.


You must therefore make sure that your accusations of god is correct, because if they are not, your accusation stands for eternity until it is judged. Your accusations against god, doesnt go away either. Who are you going to blame when you are judged as being an inaccurate judge of god? Will you blame GOD because you didnt judge him correctly?

I think my accusation of God is unassailable. My accusation is this:

• Millions of people endure pain, suffering and death due to natural disasters.
• God could have prevented these disasters.
• He did not.

Do you think I'm off somewhere here? Am I "blaming" God for this obvious lack of action? How would you defend him? How would you blame the suffering of disease, famine and other natural disasters on humans?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?
Then everything would live forever and we wouldn't be living a physical existence but an animated one.

So, God couldn't create a place where there is no sickness, suffering or death and where we live forever. Got it! A place like that would be...oh, what's the word....."heavenly"?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Evil, pain and suffering are a part of life. God didn't promise us that we wouldn't have to endure these things, but He did promise to be there with us and strengthen us through them. We grow spiritually when we are faced with these things and find joy when we overcome them. Through our weakness we are made strong.

I see. Please explain how the children who died of smallpox were made strong. They didn't improve their lives. They died.

Or perhaps the children who were on the beach in Sri Lanka the day of the Tsunami and were drowned by the wave. Did this make them better people?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Perhaps because they enrich it.

Do you find yourself enriching others' lives in this way? Perhaps break a random stranger's leg with a lead pipe? Maybe find a neighbor's toddler and toss him into a lake? You could really enrich those people's lives, right? Are you doing these life-enriching things? Or are you busy at home reasoning that black is white, up is down and evil is good?

 

[Father Heathen]

"Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering"?

This may seem like a stupid question but, why should he?

If he's supposed to be the embodiment of good then it's kind of expected.

 

[Storm]

Do you find yourself enriching others' lives in this way? Perhaps break a random stranger's leg with a lead pipe? Maybe find a neighbor's toddler and toss him into a lake? You could really enrich those people's lives, right? Are you doing these life-enriching things? Or are you busy at home reasoning that black is white, up is down and suffering is good?

You're not remotely interested in understanding my point, are you? Communication be damned, this is about you being right!

 

[Beaudreaux]

If God had immediately executed Adam and Eve, following their sin, none of us would be in existence today. Surely that is not what we would want. Just think, had God at some later time destroyed all who were sinners, we would not have been born and had the opportunity to learn his ways, to make needed changes in our lives, and to avail ourselves of his loving provisions for eternal life. That God has granted us this opportunity is an evidence of great love on his part.

So, God showed great love by not murdering our anscestors for disobedience? You and I have different ideas about what "great love" is.

The Bible shows that God has a set time to destroy this wicked system and will do so soon.—Hab. 2:3

But....but...you said "he does not desire any to be destroyed". What is he, Schizophrenic?!?!?!

Remember too, that God has the power to undo all the harm that may come upon his servants. God is not the one who is causing the suffering. But by means of Jesus Christ, God will raise the dead, heal obedient ones of all their illnesses, root out every trace of sin, and even cause former grief to fade from our minds.—John 5:28, 29; Rev. 21:4; Isa. 65:17.

So, God will "undo" the suffering of all the people who have suffered so. Sort of rectify his mistake?

 

[Beaudreaux]

"Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering"?

This may seem like a stupid question but, why should he?

Because He's good and good beings do good to others...like giving a cure for a disease or preventing their child from drowning.

 

[Beaudreaux]

After decades of reading and searching I can say just one thing for certain. There is something more than physical existence.

Why are you certain?

Jesus had the most advanced directions for us for all time, but we just argue about it instead of studying and trying to live it.

How do you know that Jesus' directions are the most advanced?

 

[Beaudreaux]

You're not remotely interested in understanding my point, are you? Communication be damned, this is about you being right!

Look, the OP asks how God can allow things like Smallpox, Hurricane Katrina and the Asian Tsunami happen. These disasters took millions of lives, including the lives of innocent children. Your answer to me was that these things "enriched" the lives of their victims. Come on!

Now, I can understand that when people go through some trials that it makes them stronger, but that is not what we're talking about here. There are things that happen to people that no good person would allow if they could stop them. God allows them all the time.

 

[Storm]

Look, the OP asks how God can allow things like Smallpox, Hurricane Katrina and the Asian Tsunami happen. These disasters took millions of lives, including the lives of innocent children. Your answer to me was that these things "enriched" the lives of their victims. Come on!

No, my answer was that suffering enriches life.

Now, I can understand that when people go through some trials that it makes them stronger, but that is not what we're talking about here. There are things that happen to people that no good person would allow if they could stop them. God allows them all the time.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Part of it, anyway. Should I bother explaining further, or am I talking to a wall?

 

[Sententia]

No, my answer was that suffering enriches life.

Perhaps suffering is a bad way to call it. Getting tortured, spat upon and beaten and suffering through sickness only makes your life more enriched than those not tortured, spat upon, beaten and who never got sick?

I dunno what I missing here... How is suffering good?

 

[Storm]

Perhaps suffering is a bad way to call it. Getting tortured, spat upon and beaten and suffering through sickness only makes your life more enriched than those not tortured, spat upon, beaten and who never got sick?

It gives you a whole new level of appreciation for the good times, I can tell you that much.

I dunno what I missing here... How is suffering good?

It's doubtful to me that happiness could exist without it.

 

[idea]

It's doubtful to me that happiness could exist without it.

Bingo!

Good is a relative term. There is no good without evil. If I asked you “Are apples good?” Apples are neither good nor evil until you compare it to something else. It’s the theory of relativity. Like velocity – velocity does not exist except through opposition.
Read this link – example of how some things don’t exist without their opposite:
http://goaskgrandpa.com/sample04.htm


Good is one of those things that cannot exist without it’s opposite. Good is a relative term. So, either everything exists (good and evil) or nothing exists at all. Those are the choices.

11 For it must needs be, that there is an aopposition in all things. If not so, my first–born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.
13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.
14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.
15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.
16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi2:11 - 16)

http://goaskgrandpa.com/sample04.htm
"Is there such a thing as velocity in a complete vacuum? Since velocity is relative it cannot be calculated in a vacuum, so it can therefore be assumed that velocity does not exist in a vacuum?...So, my question is, can the special theory of relativity be applied to such a scenario, where velocity cannot be measured or even exist for that matter?"

Ans:
(speaking of "all things must needs be a compound in one"
Your question is not about vacuum, but about an empty universe, except for the one object under consideration. ...
This object could not have a velocity. This object would be the universe. The universe is 'all that is,' and this imagined object is 'all that is.' There could be no 'space' outside this object. Now I will imagine that I am the object. Where can I travel to? There is no place to go. On what road may I travel? There is no road. I am the universe; I cannot travel to non-existent places taking non-existent routes. Now if I could wiggle my fingers, then I could consider their velocity relative to other parts of me, but now I am not a single object; now I am many objects, and that was not the question.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so... why not just choose between apples and oranges, rather than apples and __________ (fill in the blank with the most horrible thing you can think of)? Limit choices limits agency... limits life...

 

[Alla Prima]

No, my answer was that suffering enriches life.

Watching your loved ones die is devestating not enriching.

 

[Alla Prima]

It gives you a whole new level of appreciation for the good times, I can tell you that much.

I don't need the suffering of others to appreciate life.

 

[Alla Prima]

It's doubtful to me that happiness could exist without it.

The happiness you're thinking of isn't happiness. Real happiness isn't dependent on suffering.

And so far no one's been able to answer my question.

 

[idea]

The happiness you're thinking of isn't happiness. Real happiness isn't dependent on suffering.

actually, happiness is dependent on suffering...

I don't need the suffering of others to appreciate life.

life does not even exist without death. Life is a relative term too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From previous posts…



OK - let's hear your viewpoint on the origin of evil. Not how to deal with evil - not how we can be strengthened from it - I want to hear where it came from - what is the origin. And none of this "some mysteries are not yet revealed to us" nonsense. We are told to ask questions, that if we knock, we will be given answers.

Here are two choices:

1. God did NOT create everything, God did not create evil.

- God did not create Himself – therefore He did not create everything. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. If it was “made” it was made by Him, however, some things are not made – some things exist without a beginning, they are self-existent.
– Even though there is a part of us He did not create, He is a Loving, merciful, just God. He wants to adopt us, will do everything in His power save take away our free agency to refine us.
John3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
We have need for deliverance – not because of anything God has created – but as a result of the self-existent part of us that God is in no way responsible for.


2. God created everything, God created evil.
- God created us to be “wretched men” Romans 7:24 - O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? He deliberately created us imperfectly that we would suffer. He created Satan, He created Hell. God caused that His Son should die, and has chosen some to spend eternity in torment. Mark9:43 … hell, the fire that never shall be quenched


1 Timothy4:1 NOW the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy

Which description of God sounds like lies in hypocrisy, lies, like doctrines of devils? Who would Satan have us believe God is?


Aside from – “God did not create everything, we have a pre-existence, part of us is eternal and self-existent” - I have heard no other explanation that is in harmony of a Loving, Just, Merciful God.

________________________________________
What is self-existent?
God, “intelligences”, matter? energy?
Intelligences – being the mind of man – that God is the Father of our Spirits in the same way that we are parents on Earth – we do not create the mind or thoughts in our children’s head…? Would you agree?

In the beginning… But then for some entities, there is no beginning, some entities exist outside of time, have no beginning, no end, no creation…

Atheists accept that matter, energy, and the laws that control them are self-existent from the laws of conservation of mass/energy – the laws of thermodynamics. I think they agree that mass/energy can change form, but cannot blink in and out of existence – they simply are, or are not – look around, they exist. The fundamental building blocks and laws that control them just always were and always will be.

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. - Jeremiah 1:5

Our birth was not our beginning… Part of us had no beginning.

8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - Isaiah 64:8

The potter did not make the clay… but we can become His creation.

 

[idea]

perhaps the greatest conundrum of Christianity - why does God allow evil?
(Allow, not create, for God is not the only self-existent entity)

(This is from Peter Marshall? I think?)

There is no use trying to evade the issue.
There are times when God does not intervene-
The fact that He does nothing is one of the most
Baffling mysteries in the Christian life.

It was H.g. wells who voiced the dilemma
That many troubled hearts have faced in war-time:

“Either God has the power to stop all this carnage and killing and He doesn’t care, or else He does care, and He doesn’t have the power to stop it.”

But that is not the answer…
As long as there is sin in the world.
As long as there is greed
Selfishness
Hate in the hearts of men
There will be war…

It is only because God is God that He is reckless enough to allow human being such free will as has led the world into this present catastrophe.

God could have prevented the war!
Do you doubt for a moment that God has not the power?
But suppose He had used it?
Men would then have lost their free agency…
They would no longer be souls endowed with the ability to choose…

They would then become puppets
Robots
Machines
Toy soldiers instead.

No, God is playing a much bigger game.
He is still awaiting an awakened sense of the responsibility of brotherhood in the hearts of men and women everywhere. He will not do for us the things that we can do for ourselves…