Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
CG D, I heard and I examined the Scriptures for the validity of what was being taught. Not doubting, but searching.
One will not get truth about the spiritual aspects of the Bible from the wikipedia--the editors are volunteers from all "beliefs" who follow a set of rules which are biased concerning the Bible Or the Creator GOD.

Your saying your "doubting" will not be answered by any amount of Scriptural proof given.
Like Paul, only with unconventional means will you even start to believe---as is evidenced by your many posts.

The Creator GOD of the Scriptures attested to HIS LOVE for guilty mankind by HIS SON'S voluntary death in the place of all of mankind who is humble enough to confess, Repent and believe.

I was worried. I didn't think this thread would make it to two years. But, it looks like we're going to make it. Thanks to you. Good job. So now let's talk about the "validity" of Scripture. So Adam and Eve disobeyed God's warning, and, because of that, God cursed all of creation? Why? Why not just Adam and Eve? They are the ones that messed up. Why the animals? Why Adam and Eve's children? As we read on... and, as mentioned several times, God told Joshua to have his men kill women and children. Why? Let's talk about Daniel. Is it true that his prophesies are accurate up to a certain point? So accurate that some people think that it was written after those events? Is it true that after that point, he is no longer accurate? I don't know. But if that is true, then maybe there is good reason not to blindly believe, but to investigate.

Let's talk about the NT. Did several dead people come out of their graves and walk around Jerusalem? Now let's talk about people deluding themselves that what they believe is true... like those in any other belief system other than yours. They believe in the craziest of things, and they don't doubt. Their religion somehow works for them. Why is that? You say their religion isn't true. Yet, they believe it and insist that it is the truth. To you, it is an obvious lie. A few come out and change their religion, but some of your religion also changes what they believe. So what is it that keeps them and you believing and not doubting? Because to the believer, any believer in anything, it does work. And, as long as you keep believing, it keeps working. Even the religious movements that you say are not true, they keep working. So fine, keep believing in yours. But then, why don't you let others keep believing in theirs? Because you believe yours is the "only" way. And, which way of the "only" way is the right way? Of course, it's yours. You have the right Scriptures and the right interpretation of those Scriptures. You don't doubt. You don't question. But then, how do you know they are right? Because someone told you? Someone showed you? You felt it in your heart? What? With all the weird things taught and said in the Bible, you don't question any of it? With all the different tangents that Christianity has gone in, yours has gone back to the original "truth" of the Word? And, yours knows exactly what God wants and expects? And you follow those teachings with an unwavering heart and mind?

Sorry, I doubt it. You might do a lot. But other Christians do very little. And even you could do a lot more if you wanted. So why don't you? Don't you trust that God will guide you and meet your needs? When someone asks you to go a mile, do you go two? Probably not. Why? Isn't that what Jesus said to do? Don't you believe him? Of course you do... At a level that is comfortable with you. Are you satisfied with that? Is God and Jesus satisfied with that? I think Jesus expects it all. But which Christian really gives their all to God? Probably none of them, because that is not practical. In this day and age, we have to be rational. After all, if we head a voice that told us to sacrifice our only son, we would and should question that voice... And question our own sanity. So, if a book, that has been written by several people over several centuries, says that it is the unquestionable truth and its pages are filled with very questionable things, don't you think you should ask some questions about who those authors were?

CD G, Your--"Sorry, I doubt it" is your driving force.
Paul, recorded in 1Cor.10:6, 11; Rom. 15:4, "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

All those show the validity of the "Thus saith the Lord GOD" is true and did come to pass. The theme of the Bible is Jesus and the why HE was sent to redeem sinful mankind. Jesus taught that many would be on the broad road to destruction. As Prov.14:12 states. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
It isn't asking who the writers/authors are that is important, but is one's beliefs in line with the scriptural teachings.( as 2Pet.1:10) attests, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

The plan of salvation was made prior to the foundation of the world. It should come as no shock to any reader of the Scriptures that it involved the Son of GOD.
Mankind could not pay the sin penalty(Death) and still live.
The plan of salvation isn't impossible for the Believer--Confess, Repent, obey and live.
For the unbeliever, who loves the things of the world(And selfish lusts) which are sandwiched between the blessings of the Creator GOD---because the love of GOD is showered upon all---one is warring against themselves.

CG D, GOD is not going to intervene in anyone's choice to disobey. As is evidenced in Eve and the serpent and Eve with Adam.
Believe GOD.or Doubt GOD. The Scriptures have witnessed to all the rewards for both actions.
Don't be angry with GOD because GOD eventually will give all the reward they chose.

The length and duration of the thread isn't what one should be worried about.
As the song attests, "I'm satisfied with Jesus---but the thought came to me as as gazed on Calvary---is my Savior satisfied with me?"

 

[sincerly]

ngledsva said: ↑ Yes, this type of Christian is quite funny, actually. Conflicting ideas that they don't even recognize.

Yeah, I was there back in the 70's. I was shown all the right verses that "proved" what they were saying was The Truth. And then I'd find one of those many "conflicting" ideas and they say, "What? There are no conflicting ideas in the Bible. You are just not reading and understanding correctly." Then I'd say, "Oh? Excuse me. Let me just close my brain... Ah, that's better. Now go ahead and tell me the true meaning, and I'll bury all those questions deep in the back of my mind where they won't get in the way of my beliefs." And thanks for not letting those type of Christians get away with passing off their interpretations as being the one and only truth.

CG D, I , too, was 20+ years into Believing and searching the Scriptures in those 70's.
What you call "conflicting ideas" was not of the Scripture, but the ideas which persons placed upon the verses to make the Scriptures agree with what one wanted to believe. That is what tripped up Eve---"She saw". It wasn't in agreement with that which GOD had said.
The serpent's tactic hasn't changed---and neither has GOD'S truths/principles for a right relationship to GOD and mankind changed.
As prophesied, it was mankind who sought to "change GOD'S times and laws".
The correct nomenclature essentially is "Obeyers of HIS "Thus saith the Lord GOD"---or "Disobeyers". (As is seen in Matt.7:21-23)

The root of your "doubting" is in this sentence above:

I'll bury all those questions deep in the back of my mind where they won't get in the way of my beliefs."

 

[Simplelogic]

Ro 9:15 For HE/GOD says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

This is one of Paul's many misquotes of scripture:

"For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is notof him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Romans 9:15,16

This presumed quote is extracted from Exodus 33 where Moses has asked God if he could see His glory. Paul is clearly portraying a God who chooses to show favor on whomever he so desires completely apart from any endeavor of an individual to achieve His favor. Paul's use of the word "whomever" as supposedly used in Exodus is critical here. In his picture, he is using an indefinite word here. He is claiming that God's choosing to have, or not to have, mercy on an individual is true of anybody and everybody, as opposed to anyone specific. This is evident in both the Greek word translated "whomever", and the context in which he uses it. It is a picture that is very misleading as well. Here is the accurate quote from Exodus in its greater context.

Then the Lord said to Moses, "I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name." Then he said, "Please , show me Your glory." Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you, I will be gracious to whomI will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Exodus 33:17-19

Notice that God is talking specifically to and about Moses as opposed to everybody. The Hebrew word for "whom" is a very definitive word. It is the word "et" #853 in Strong's code. The Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon says this word is a "primarily strongly demonstrative" pronoun, which means, "self", or "this same". Even the Hebrew syntax of this phrase is literally rendered as...

"I will favor whom I favor, and I will have mercy on whom I have mercy."

There isn't the slightest ambiguity as to whom God is choosing to favor in the Hebrew text. It is Moses and Moses only! He alone is about to receive a double... or second portion of God's favor and mercy! And this, because he had done that which pleased God and had subsequently "found" the favor which he had sought. And God, speaking in this way of granting a double-portion blessing to someone who has merited it, has a precedence in Abraham!" Attributes part 3

 

[Simplelogic]

"Scriptures that indicate God has limited His knowledge.

There are many passages in the Bible that indicate God does not necessarily know what man will do. The following are just a few of them. This picture of a creator who chooses tonot know what his creature will do shows up right at the beginning of the Bible in the creation account itself .

"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them." Genesis 2:19

If God is all-knowing of what man will do, why was He so inquisitive of what Adam would do?

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth,... for I regret that I have made them." Genesis 6:5-7

How can a wise God do something that He knows He will regret in the future? This passage clearly implies that, had God known when He created man that he would become as evil as he did, He would not have created him! Thus, He did not know. God knew it was a possibility that man could turn toward ultimate evil. That is part of the risk He took in relinquishing control and giving man a free will. But that is not the same as knowing man would become as evil as he did. God had higher hopes for His creation.

But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. And the Lord said, "Indeed, the people are one and they all have one language..." Genesis 11:5,6

Gathering information again! And obviously, it was information He didn't completely possess before.

And the Lord said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know." Genesis 18:20,21

It sounds like He didn't know for sure and was going on a fact-finding mission again!

But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." And He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." Genesis 22:11,12

Again, "now I know", as though He wasn't completely sure before.

Now the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, "I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments." 1Samuel 15:11

How can an intelligent God do something He knew He would wish He hadn't done?

"And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Jeremiah 32:35 (see also Jeremiah 7:31 and 19:5)

God said Himself that it never came into His mind!! "

The Attributes of Deity

 

[CG Didymus]

All those show the validity of the "Thus saith the Lord GOD" is true and did come to pass. The theme of the Bible is Jesus and the why HE was sent to redeem sinful mankind. Jesus taught that many would be on the broad road to destruction. As Prov.14:12 states. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
It isn't asking who the writers/authors are that is important, but is one's beliefs in line with the scriptural teachings.( as 2Pet.1:10) attests, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

The plan of salvation was made prior to the foundation of the world. It should come as no shock to any reader of the Scriptures that it involved the Son of GOD.
Mankind could not pay the sin penalty(Death) and still live.
The plan of salvation isn't impossible for the Believer--Confess, Repent, obey and live.
For the unbeliever, who loves the things of the world(And selfish lusts) which are sandwiched between the blessings of the Creator GOD---because the love of GOD is showered upon all---one is warring against themselves.

CG D, GOD is not going to intervene in anyone's choice to disobey. As is evidenced in Eve and the serpent and Eve with Adam.
Believe GOD.or Doubt GOD. The Scriptures have witnessed to all the rewards for both actions.
Don't be angry with GOD because GOD eventually will give all the reward they chose.

The length and duration of the thread isn't what one should be worried about.
As the song attests, "I'm satisfied with Jesus---but the thought came to me as as gazed on Calvary---is my Savior satisfied with me?"

The theme of the Jewish Bible is not Jesus. I read, probably in Wikipedia, that talk of the Messianic era didn't come until later in Judaism. You add Jesus, the devil, heaven and hell and all the other Christian beliefs into the Jewish Scriptures. You take a verse here and a verse there to build your case. That's fine. But you talk about the sin penalty as being death? So, as we've been arguing for two years, if the God of the Bible is really in control and knows all, then he knew that by putting a tree and a tempter in the garden with brand new, naive people, that they would fail the test. So then he curses them? He curses the serpent, so because of, supposedly, the devil being disguised as a serpent, all serpents, for all time, have to crawl on their belly's? Not fair. Death enters the world? All plants and animals get cursed and have to die also? Not fair. But wait, doesn't everything go through a growth/decay cycle? Isn't that part of the natural world? Or did God curse the universe? Not fair. He tells the Hebrews to keep His Law. He tells them to kill people, including women and children. When they disobey him, he lets other people kill them and take them captive.

Oh wait, I forgot, all the people are evil and doing horrible things except Noah and his family. So God wishes he had never created them? What's wrong? Why couldn't he create something that he liked? Instead, he kills all living things, because of humans? Not fair. Oh, but he saved a few animals. But what about the plants? How did the Earth recover from being flooded? How did people and animals repopulate the Earth so fast? How did animals and people migrate so fast? How did people forget God so fast? Why does God keep threatening people with death and destruction and with throwing them into hell? What kind of plan is this? Oh yeah, God loves us so much that he gave his only begotten Son. But then he allows other religions, that say that they have the truth from the real God? Nice plan. Confuse us with vague and misleading spiritual "truths", so that we come up with thousands of ways to believe and follow him.

Then "his" people, the Christians. What an example they are. They kill, torture, and argue with each other what the "truth" is. Most professing Christians do almost nothing. They are indistinguishable from the average person, except on Sunday morning. That was the plan? To sit in a building once a week and listen to some guy talk about God? Oh, and how about those hell fire preachers, that must'a been something. How much of that can anybody take? But, that was God's plan? To scare people into believing?

I don't know. It sure seems like all religions try to accomplish the same basic thing... get people to be better people... to get them to follow a few basic rules to better fit in with their society and culture. Some religions kicked those that didn't obey out of the group. Sometimes, those that didn't obey "God's" Law were killed. Sometimes, one people forced their religion on others. Sometimes, one people used their religion to justify enslaving others. So people use their religions to do whatever they want. So is it God in control, or is it people doing what they do and finding a way to say that what they are doing is what God wants?

But sure, believing in Jesus is easy. He's the Savior. By believing in Him, we have eternal life. Whoopee. Now let's read the Bible. Hmmm? What should we do about all the verses that contradict what we believe to be true? Re-interpret them in light of what we know to be true? And what do we know is true? The NT. Everything that doesn't agree with the NT, is not true. Hmmm, the OT doesn't agree with the NT? Ok, we can fix that. We'll make it say what we want it to say. Hmmm, what do we do with those that disagree with us about what the NT says? We'll call them heretics. Too bad we can't burn them at the stake anymore. Hmmm, but what about people that have minor disagreements with us? Well, they are still saved, but they are just a little confused. But God is not the author of confusion. Hmmm, I guess we should go try and correct them. "Hey, tongues are not for today." "Yes they are." "No they're not." "Go to hell." Hmmm, that didn't work. Let me try these guys. "Hey Mary and the sacraments are wrong. All you need is Jesus and the Bible." "No, we have a connection that leads all the way back to the early church fathers and the apostles. You guys are wrong." Hmmm, I'm confused.

Yes, all the religions, all the versions of Christianity are wrong except yours. You know God's plan. You live by his precepts and preach the truth of his word. He is satisfied with you. I'm sure of it. That is, if what you believe is real. If not, then who knows. But one thing, if Jesus was the plan from the beginning, why not say so from the beginning? Why all those centuries of people not knowing God's true plan? And don't say that it was there, because nobody on Earth knew about salvation through Jesus until Jesus. That seems like poor planning to me. But, I guess part of the plan was to let humans go through a lot of confusion and death and suffering, so when Jesus came, we'd all believe? We'd know that we can't get salvation on our own. Now that we have salvation, look how wonderful the world is. Oh yeah, part of the plan was to keep suffering, and for God to let the devil keep confusing us, so that only a few would find true salvation in the Lord and the rest of us would be cast into hell. What a plan. But no, God is not evil. It's us.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

What say you?

Concerning dying children: Quite simply, God is either unable or unwilling to do anything about it.

 

[joshua3886]

Why should I worship someone who doesn't answer the prayers of the needy? There's no point in believing in something that doesn't show itself to exist or help those who need it most.

 

[kjv4me2you]

What scriptural verses support this argument? It's been a while since I read the bible but I don't remember free will or original sin anywhere in there.

If anything everything is preordained, which makes God even more evil.

(Rom 8:28 KJV) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The determiner is DO YOU LOVE GOD if so all things work together FOR THE GOOD TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD and therefore are called according to His purpose.

 

[kjv4me2you]

Why should I worship someone who doesn't answer the prayers of the needy? There's no point in believing in something that doesn't show itself to exist or help those who need it most.

Unanswered prayer is answered prayer. NOT THIS TIME CHILD.