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Why does Islam degrade women by keeping them behind the veil?

Ezzedean

Active Member
Burchfam said:
This is simply incorrect - as I know from personal experience. In Western society it is not in the least bit exceptional for women to wear miniskirts


If men can have 4 wives, why can't women have 4 husbands? If women have to cover their bodies, why don't men?

I know from my girlfriend and some of her friends that they feel jipped when it comes down to clothing in the west. I know a lot of girls go to the mall to shop for clothes and just end up leaving depressed due to the sizes available, which aren't made for all women. When women walk around in min skirts flaunting what they got, it catches the eyes of many men... and the men look at the women sexually at a certain point... now this may not be ALL the time, but a lot of the times men look at women wearing sexy clothing, in a sexual way.

Women can't have four husbands because of the fact that when she get's pregnant, confusion as to who the father is will arise and cause controversy. Now we are capable of finding these things out, but at the time you couldn't, and eventually the women can no longer have children and this may cause controversy with the men who want to have one, and she can't treat them equally because of this. The biggest reason for more than one wife, is to make a bigger family... and the wife having more than one husband defeats the whole purpose of it.

What you have to understand is that although the men are aloud to have more than one wife, there are many guidlines which the man has to follow. He has to treat them all equally.. he buys one a car, the other wives must get a car, he loves one wife with all his heart, the other wives must be loved with all his heart, he gives one a gift, the others must get one. Although the men are aloud to have more than one wife, God warns the men that He knows all that we do, and He knows what is going on with our hearts and what our intentions are. I myself couldn't have more than one wife and perform this act as a true muslim, and I highly doubt that there are many muslim men out there who can do this. The prophet Muhammed was capable of doing it, but he was a prophet of God... a lot of the people who practice polygamy aren't doing it under the right conditions, and are not following the guudlines set out by God, and they are only doing it out of pleasure and because of their wealth... and those people will be in for a rude awakening when their time comes.

As for why the men don't have to cover themselves, technically we are supposed to. We may not have to cover our hair, but God tells the men that we must dress modestly and with respect. We are not supposed to be revealing either. The women are asked to wear the hijab, but it's completely up to the women if she does it or not. The hijab doesn't have to always be worn also... the women doesn't have to wear the head scarf infront of her kids, husband, father and mother, in laws, nephews, brothers and sisters, granparents... it's mostly for the public so that men don't look at them with disrespectful eyes. The women don't have cover their faces like you see in some countries, that is definately taking it too far... it's only the hair that should be covered if you decide to do it.

Although women have those restrictions, men and women are still treated equally... because there are many things that men have to do, and many responsibilites God puts onto the man, that the women doesn't have to worry about.. especially when it comes down to money. The Wife is aloud to work and not give a single penny towards anything and spend it on herself, while the man has to fork over all of his hard earned money towards the bills and other things... now this doesn't HAVE TO be the case, but women have that option, and there are many other situations where the men have a higher responsibility or more work than the women, and in the end when you put everything together... we are equal... we just have different roles.

Hope that helped.

Peace and Blessings
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
Burchfam said:
That's pretty ambiguous, and can be interpreted any way you like.

How is it when God tells men to Guard their modesty interpreted any differently? I think you just want to not believe that God tells the men to be just as respectful in dress as the women do. I don't get why people have such a big problem with women wearing a hijab on her head, it's her choice, and it's done out of respect. The women who wear them don't complain about it, so why do soooo many people feel the need to complain about it? Women are very beautiful, much more beautiful than men and God wants that beauty to be protected and shown to the right people, and to those who deserve that beauty... it's not for any pig on the street who is just looking at a girl solely because of her t n a. I can think of many occasions when I would be walking downtown with my buddies back in the day, and there would be a girl walking infront of us, and all we could see was her *** and hair.. and my buddies right there and then were able to decide if they would do her or not... how is that respectful to that girl? I don't hear many men talking about girls in hijab like that. Now before people have a hissy fit, men don't just talk like that about women in the west, becuase there many, many women in theb west who dont wear a hijab on their head, and dress respectully and modestly, and there are many "muslim" girls out there who dress in a way which is not acceptable in Islam, and crave that attention that comes from the boys. In the end, it's not right.

Peace
 

Random

Well-Known Member
If women chose to wear the veil or Hijabs because it suited their fashion-sense and they loved appearing that way, I would support it. But it should not be mandatory. A man is not properly realising the moral and intellectual endowments of his god unless he can assert himself to members of both sexes on an equal footing and without preconditions. A man who cannot control his sexual urges is useless and inferior, likewise a woman of no discipline.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
gracie said:
it also keeps my head and neck warm from the wind, happily.

In winter in Michigan, I always wore my babushka when going outside.

Now, when it comes to high summer in Atlanta, with months of 96 degree weather and 96% humidity, I think to feel comfortable with anything I my head I'd be tempted to get a buzz cut. :eek: Honestly, I don't know how women here do it, but obviously they manage. I'm sure the nature of the material used would be important.
 

jacquie4000

Well-Known Member
Now, when it comes to high summer in Atlanta, with months of 96 degree weather and 96% humidity, I think to feel comfortable with anything I my head I'd be tempted to get a buzz cut. :eek: Honestly, I don't know how women here do it, but obviously they manage. I'm sure the nature of the material used would be important. ___________________________

In the heat wow It is hard to mannage I imagine. I used to go to the mosque with some friends of mine for weddings and such, So of course I would cover. But it was hot to me...lol but then again I was not used to it. The egyptian cotten seemed to be the most light and let air circulate through.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
jacquie4000 said:
In the heat wow It is hard to mannage I imagine. I used to go to the mosque with some friends of mine for weddings and such, So of course I would cover. But it was hot to me...lol but then again I was not used to it. The egyptian cotten seemed to be the most light and let air circulate through.

Yeah, Egyptian cotton is exactly what I was thinking of as the best choice. A nice breathable weave of natural fibre. I sure wouldn't chance polyester!

Oh to remotely keep this on topic, I don't think Islam degrades women by keeping them behind a veil, because obviously, many Muslim women choose to wear one, and that's there business.

I think why many Westerners get bothered by is the instances when women are not able to choose, but are made to wear such things, and get a beating if they don't.

It gives a very bad picture of what Islam is supposed to be about too, when you see pictures of women being treated worse than dogs, and hear stories about girls being burned in a school fire because some idiot *man* wouldn't let them out in the street unveiled.

The broader a picture Westerners get of how Islam is, in theory and in practice, the better for everyone, I think.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
Ezzedean said:
I know from my girlfriend and some of her friends that they feel jipped when it comes down to clothing in the west. I know a lot of girls go to the mall to shop for clothes and just end up leaving depressed due to the sizes available, which aren't made for all women.
Not to mention the styles available. The shirts this year have this plunging neckline going on. It's mean to be worn "layered" with something else underneath.

Wonderful. I live in Georgia, where the weather is hot and humid and I'm at the point of life where I'm always too warm.

All I needed was to wear more layers of clothing.

Needless to say, I have bought NO clothes this year, but rather am hoping I can manage with what I already have.

May the fashion industry rot in eternal hellfire, as far as I'm concerned. With extra layers of clothing. :149:
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
Burchfam said:
Actually, Muhammad had 11 wives (or posibly as many as 13 in some accounts). Since only two of them died before Muhammad himself, this means that towards the end of his life he was married to at least 9 women at the same time - so his rule about 4 wives being the maximum allowed obviously did not apply to himself. Incidentally, one of his wives, Aisha, was 6 years old when he married her.

If every Muslim man took 4 wives, where do all the extra women come from?
I didnt read the whole thread, but I have to comment on this post first..

second, he was married to 9 all at the same time, but this was an exception, because the prophet's wives are regarded to be in a high place in our hearts, as they are our mothers...
Prophet Mohammed had 9 wives already before the order of God to only have 4 as a maximum...
But God didnt want to break any of his wives heart by being divorced and prevented from the honor of being muslim's mother, so he gave prophet Mohammed the right to be married to all of them

third, the marraige to 4 women needs specific conditions, and prophet Mohammed marraid most of these women because they needed a man to protect them, and every marraige has its own story which we all know very well...even he always mentiond that he never loved like Khadiga, his first wife, and then he loved Aishaa..

forth, I will not comment on the Hijab issue because I'm not really sure I can...But to be accurate, men also are orderd to cover some places in their bodies...

Finally, i would like to mention that we obey God whatever he orderd us, and when a woman wears a veil, she shows how much she respects and loves Him that she can sacrify some of her beauty for him...and He is the one who gave her that beauty!
Everything God orderd us has its own reason, that may be we don't know, but we are sure he is the most wisdom, so we just obey Him asking for his acceptance in His mercy and asking for His paradise..

I hope I well said!
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I find it unacceptable that here in the west I am required by social convention to wear a bra... hellish thing. :cool:

fashion and culture... what fun. You should see all the stuff I have to wear to be "traditional" at a Pow Wow. YIKES!
ribbon dress (or buckskin dress), shawl, leggings, mocc's, belt, bags, fan, rattle, assorted other items. Now go dance in the summer sunshine. And I'm not getting into fancy dance...let alone mens regalia... those poor guys, at least they look good.

wa:do
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
painted wolf said:
I find it unacceptable that here in the west I am required by social convention to wear a bra... hellish thing. :cool:

Just a cami won't do? That's all my daughter wears. She lives in the things. I wish I could get away with it. :eek:

fashion and culture... what fun. You should see all the stuff I have to wear to be "traditional" at a Pow Wow. YIKES!
ribbon dress (or buckskin dress), shawl, leggings, mocc's, belt, bags, fan, rattle, assorted other items. Now go dance in the summer sunshine. And I'm not getting into fancy dance...let alone mens regalia... those poor guys, at least they look good.

You mean like Kevin Locke? Well, he's not Cherokee, he's Lakota...as dumb as it is here I live to close to New Echota, and I've never seen Cherokee traditional dress. :areyoucra

8115_500.jpg
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
If women chose to wear the veil or Hijabs because it suited their fashion-sense and they loved appearing that way, I would support it. But it should not be mandatory.
Thank you but the muslim woman needs neither ur support nor ur opinion whether it should be mandatory or not! and yeah it's mandatory for the muslim woman to wear hijab just like "establishing" the 5 prayers, just like fasting ramadan, just like paying zakah..........etc. But who said its mandatory? me? nope! was it a man (who may have an interest in repressing women or something)? no, then who? God. When a muslim woman wears hjiab, she doesn't do this to please men, to please her family, her society or to please anybody on this earth; she does this b/c she loves her God, when she knew this would please her God, she didn't hesitate. she wants her mind to be free from thinking how she looks in men's eyes. she wants to be identified as a modest n pious woman. she knows her body is too precious, she preserves it not to be accessible for men's eyes and minds. she is proud that her beauty is only for one person; her husband.

I also believe the muslim woman must not be forced to wear hijab (but at least she should respect her muslim society and not to wear revealing clothes i.e. try to be modest as much as she can). some muslim societies force the woman to cover her whole body including the face until it became just a tradition and when it becomes permissible to take it off, she won't hesitate and this already happens. I don't really think that we want for the muslim woman to be like this. my point is not by force we will create a modest society; maybe the society will look modest from outside but if we went deeper and inside it, we would find the contrary. if we want to see veiled modest women in the society then teach them their religion and give them the free will then iam sure most of them will choose to obey their God.


Note: although this is not our topic but Aisha (the Prophet's wife) was engaged to another person, i can't remeber his name, before the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) married her; this indicates that it was common and not weird at the Prophet's time to marry women in such age.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
If women chose to wear the veil or Hijabs because it suited their fashion-sense and they loved appearing that way, I would support it. But it should not be mandatory.
"it should not be mandatory''...well, we don't tell God what to do...
If this is your question, go ask God why He orderd us to do that...
Wearing a veil doesn't need an excuse from you, simply, it's what God wants..
But we (muslims) are just trying to tell you Hijab is not a weird of manner, it's totally normal...

woman can wear whatever she wants as long it's not revealing or tight...And that doesn't cause to much pain for fashion designers I guess..

(When a woman wears Hijab, she shows how much she loves God)
 

Random

Well-Known Member
EiNsTeiN said:
"it should not be mandatory''...well, we don't tell God what to do...

Risible answer, I'm afraid my friend.

EiNsTeiN said:
If this is your question, go ask God why He orderd us to do that...

How can I ask a remote, uncommunicative entity whose alleged existence is paradoxical anything? :areyoucra

EiNsTeiN said:
Wearing a veil doesn't need an excuse from you, simply, it's what God wants..But we (muslims) are just trying to tell you Hijab is not a weird of manner, it's totally normal...

You been conditioned to believe this is what God wants and that it's normal...this does not make it so, unforuntately. Pop a Redpill and flip God the bird: if He has a sense of humour, he'll appreciate your fiery spirit.

EiNsTeiN said:
Woman can wear whatever she wants as long it's not revealing or tight...And that doesn't cause to much pain for fashion designers I guess..

How perfectly con-trite. The overriding message from this strain of Islamic thought is that a woman must observe a dress-code to prevent getting herself raped or beheaded by man-imals. Real men don't have these problems of character, and believe women have the right to wear what they want so long as they are happy and not be harrassed or threatened because of it.

EiNsTeiN said:
When a woman wears Hijab, she shows how much she loves God

Or fears psychotic male reprisals...
 

sister M

Member
Burchfam said:
This is simply incorrect - as I know from personal experience. In Western society it is not in the least bit exceptional for women to wear miniskirts. And men do not "tease" women who do. On the other hand, women who walk around in a hijab might well get teased. So in fact, the very opposite of the above statement is true, at least as far as the West is concerned.

It might well be true that Islam improved the lot of women in Arabia. But that was 1400 years ago, and because of Islam, no further improvement has been possible.

If men can have 4 wives, why can't women have 4 husbands? If women have to cover their bodies, why don't men?
I don't know if anyone has addressed your question, since I read from page 1 and comment before reading what comes thereafter.

Men also has to cover their bodies. Sunnah (the practice of the prophet of Islam pbuh) tells men how to dress. And it is also recommended to put for example a turban on the head.
 

sister M

Member
Burchfam said:
If shariah law was ever imposed on the West then it would turn me into a criminal. I would never wear the hijab even if I wanted to (which I don't), because I have my own religious code of dress which is almost the exact opposite of the hijab in almost every possible way. What would be my punishment under shariah law?
How come you think Shari'ah would be imposed on the West? Are there any country in the West that has a majority of Muslims? And then I don't count Bosnia-Herzegovina into that.
 

sister M

Member
michel said:
Sorry, I may be being slow, but is the purpose of thehijaab (now) therefore as a form of women wishing to be 'Demure' (modest) or is it more to stop men from being attracted ?
Yes the purpose is to be modest and it is a decree by Allah SWT.
 

sister M

Member
Hema

I personally think that a man should have one wife and a woman should have one husband.
Most Muslim men do only have one wife. Have seen a statistic figure that says that 2 percent of the Muslim men have more than one wife. So it it not very common.
 

sister M

Member
Burchfam said:
Actually, Muhammad had 11 wives (or posibly as many as 13 in some accounts). Since only two of them died before Muhammad himself, this means that towards the end of his life he was married to at least 9 women at the same time - so his rule about 4 wives being the maximum allowed obviously did not apply to himself. Incidentally, one of his wives, Aisha, was 6 years old when he married her.

If every Muslim man took 4 wives, where do all the extra women come from?
Aisha was 9 when they married, meaning conumating the marriage. According to reliable ahadith.

Yes, for Muslim men the maximum is four. The prophet of Islam pbuh was of course a man, but he was also a prohet. He did things none of us others usually do. He for example used to pray a large part of the night, I cannot imaginge how many Muslims can go through with that. He did sometimes only have dates to eat. This does not mean that we should pray all the night, and it does not mean that we should only eat dates. Just some examples. So he did have the right do do things we have not and he did things none of us others cannot possible do. We do not have that strength.
 

sister M

Member
Burchfam said:
That's pretty ambiguous, and can be interpreted any way you like.
The verse quoted I understand exacly the same way. It is about the dresscode for women that want to be looked upon as modest women.
 

sister M

Member
Burchfam said:
I am fully aware of this. The West has evolved - unlike Islamic society, which follows the same rules that were laid down 1400 years ago.
As I see it, the Islamic countries do not follow the rulings given over 1400 years ago. That has resulted in, to put it mildly, a mess today in many countries. Power is one factor that overrules Islamic teachings.
 
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