Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

[omega2xx]

Jesus and his followers had the Tanakh to copy. Jesus seems to have thought he was the awaited Messiah, - thus he tried to do what he thought the prophecies said he should do. However, he did NOT fulfill all the prophecies - as any Jewish site can tell you. Instead he was put to death.

Jesus fulfilled some Messianic prophecies over which He had no control and to say the gospels were written to make it seem like He fulfilled them is silly and can't be proven. The NT clearly teaches the second coming of Christ. He will finish the list during that time.

I assure you I understand "satan." And have read Job, and debated the text here.

YHVH puts his servant Satan on Job. In the text. Job even tells us that YHVH is responsible for all that happened to him.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Job 10:8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.

Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.

Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.

Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Nowhere does God command Satan to do something.

You are believing a ridiculous teaching tale to be true. These are teaching stories that were passed on and written down much later. Most conclude around the 6th century BC. Though shards of writing which may be an early Hebrew form, have been discovered, which are around 10th century BC. King David's time.

I doubt if there is any evidence for what you say, but even if there is , it is irrelevant. The NT is taken from over 2,000 mss, all written years after the death of Jesus.

It goes through the male line.*

Chapter and verse please.



Hosea 11:1 -/When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my Son.
Mt 2:14 - And he arose and took the child and His mother by night, and departed for 'Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, "out of Egypt did I call My Son.

 

[outlawState]

Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus? The new testament seems to suggest the jews who rejected Jesus were just arrogant but i'm not sure I buy that.

They rejected him for the same reason that the hyper-trinitarians of today reject Jesus. He was a man, and appeared no more than a man, for all his miracles. He was in truth a man. Neither the Jews of Jesus' day nor the Trinitarians of today can accept Jesus the man.

I got fatwa'd on another board for "liking" the biblical sentence "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son." Matt 1;23.

Apparently it contradicts trinitarianism, or rather hyper-trinitarianism that insists on viewing Jesus as God.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Joseph was not from the line of David,but Mary was.

What 1st century Jew wasn't?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

There are odd lines where it appears they've got it, 'Stay out of the way of the blood-stained bandit'; yet most of it doesn't come across as they realize that John, Paul and Simon are the betrayers, that the made up Gospel of John, which tells Simon "to feed my sheep" is false.

Good Shepherd is a song. It's lyrics are poetry. They mean whatever you want them to mean.

Did you like it? I do.

 

[omega2xx]

What 1st century Jew wasn't?

Most of them.

 

[wizanda]

Did you like it?

Yes, and I like Jefferson Airplane.

 

[Ingledsva]

Your lack of understanding does not means the Bible is wrong. It is called the genealogy of Jesus, so it is.

You should know by now, I don' claim anything in he Bible is wrong. The Bible says Joseph is not Jesus' father and he and Mary did not have sex until after Jesus was born.

The Bible says Joseph is not His father. The Bible says Joseph is no His father. They Bible says Joseph is not His father.

Wow! Can't prove your point - just repeat - and make the text larger.

If it is called the genealogy Jesus - then idiots said it.

Show me where Jesus' genealogy includes Joseph.

LOL! That's a hoot! You gave us the so-called genealogy verses. Did you bother to read them????

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, (and on and on)

Got that? Joseph's line.

He fulfilled over 25 Messianic prophesies. That is statistically impossible for anyone not the Messiah. He will complegt the list during His second coming.

Again! - Jesus did nothing that any other human couldn't do - after reading Tanakh - to try to fulfill some of the prophecies. He was claiming to be the messiah.

What he could not do was fulfill the other - non-regular guy - things required of the Messiah.

Jesus and his followers had the Tanakh to copy. Jesus seems to have thought he was the awaited Messiah, - thus he tried to do what he thought the prophecies said he should do. However, he did NOT fulfill all the prophecies - as any Jewish site can tell you. Instead he was put to death.

They are wrong and you don't understand the Bible well enough to realize it.

I'm going to guess the Jews understand their Sacred Texts better then you and other Christians. And I obviously understand more then you do. So where does that leave you?

Hosea 11:1 -/When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my Son.

Mt 2:14 - And he arose and took the child and His mother by night, and departed for 'Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, "out of Egypt did I cll My Son.

And there is the PROOF - that you don't understand Tanakh.

The Jewish people are referred to as Israel, and YHVH's Son, and the Suffering Servant, etc.

That "called out of Egypt" is the Exodus story.

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHVH, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Exodus 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand YHVH brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Jesus fulfilled some Messianic prophecies over which He had no control and to say the gospels were written to make it seem like He fulfilled them is silly and can't be proven. The NT clearly teaches the second coming of Christ. He will finish the list during that time.

Baloney. He fulfills nothing that any regular Jew reading Tanakh could do. He FAILS with things requiring power to bring the end prophecies. The NT is written after Jesus' death and proves nothing. Not even any proof for so-called miracles.

Nowhere does God command Satan to do something.

LOL! Right! God telling him to do his Job, on Job isn't a command? See full in #181 above.

He not only told him to do it, but the rest of the text tells us over and over that YHVH is the one responsible.

Funny how you folks pick and choose what you want it to say.

I doubt if there is any evidence for what you say, but even if there is , it is irrelevant. The NT is taken from over 2,000 mss, all written years after the death of Jesus.

Facts are not irrelevant! The FACT that those, after Jesus' death (as in he can't counter them) texts, have error in regards to Tanakh, - tells us they are made-up by those later people.

Chapter and verse please.

Ask our Jewish members here.

To be "a be born a Jew" your mother needed to be a Jew.

However, the Jewish Lines were passed down through the father. Which is why we have those male genealogies in the Bible - that leave women out. And it specifically says from the LINE OF KING DAVID.

Hosea 11:1 -/When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my Son.
Mt 2:14 - And he arose and took the child and His mother by night, and departed for 'Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, "out of Egypt did I call My Son.

Already took care of this - YOUR ERROR. See # 187. Here it is again.

And there is the PROOF that you folks don't understand Tanakh.

The Jewish people are referred to as Israel, and YHVH's Son, and the Suffering Servant, etc.

That "called out of Egypt" is the Exodus story.

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Exo 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

*

 

[outlawState]

The NT is written after Jesus' death and proves nothing. Not even any proof for so-called miracles.

The NT is a miracle of itself. You have obviously never read it or only casually. The proof of its truth is in the emergence of the true people of God from the hypocrisy that Judaism had become by the time of the holocaust circa AD70. When Christ came, the Jews were looking out for the Messiah, but he came in a form that they did not expect him.

Ask yourself, if you really believe in the OT, which you obviously don't, why would God spend so muich effort in creating a people given over to sedition and sophistry, which characterizes Judaism in the years leading up to and beyond AD70? Where was the righteousness that God demanded? Why did God abolish the covenant by allowing the temple to be destroyed and the Jews excluded from their own land? The priestly families were steeped in sin. Where were the real people of God?

You need to get the bigger picture, and the NT is part of the bigger picture, showing the direction and movement of God's plan. Moreover there is nothing about Christ that is in any way "incredible." The NT is as much about unreasonable unbelief in a credible messiah as it is about belief in Christ.

 

[Rival]

The NT is a miracle of itself. You have obviously never read it or only casually. The proof of its truth is in the emergence of the true people of God from the hypocrisy that Judaism had become by the time of the holocaust circa AD70. When Christ came, the Jews were looking out for the Messiah, but he came in a form that they did not expect him.

Ask yourself, if you really believe in the OT, which you obviously don't, why would God spend so muich effort in creating a people given over to sedition and sophistry, which characterizes Judaism in the years leading up to and beyond AD70? Where was the righteousness that God demanded? Why did God abolish the covenant by allowing the temple to be destroyed and the Jews excluded from their own land? The priestly families were steeped in sin. Where were the real people of God?

You need to get the bigger picture, and the NT is part of the bigger picture, showing the direction and movement of God's plan. Moreover there is nothing about Christ that is in any way "incredible." The NT is as much about unreasonable unbelief in a credible messiah as it is about belief in Christ.

You've obviously never read those parts of the Tanach that say G-d's covenant with the Jews is eternal. It will never be abolished.

G-d says to Abraham in Genesis 17:6-10,

"I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be G-d to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their G-d.”

Psalm 94:14: "For the L-rd will not forsake his people; he will not abandon his heritage;"

Isaiah 42:16: "I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on paths they have not known. I will turn darkness to light in front of them and rough places into level ground. This is what I will do for them, and I will not forsake them. "

 

[omega2xx]

Wow! Can't prove your point - just repeat - and make the text larger.

If it is called the genealogy Jesus - then idiots said it.

Wow! cant prove your point , just try to denigrate hones men.

LOL! That's a hoot! You gave us the so-called genealogy verses. Did you bother to read them????

Not only have I read them more then you have, I have studied them and underestand them All you can od is make false statement about th because you don't understand them

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, (and on and on)

Got that? Joseph's line.

What is it about supposed you don' understand?

Again! - Jesus did nothing that any other human couldn't do - after reading Tanakh - to try to fulfill some of the prophecies. He was claiming to be the messiah.

When you are g oing to walk of water let me know.

What he could not do was fulfill the other - non-regular guy - things required of the Messiah.

When did the world come to an end? I must have missed it.

Jesus and his followers had the Tanakh to copy. Jesus seems to have thought he was the awaited Messiah, - thus he tried to do what he thought the prophecies said he should do. However, he did NOT fulfill all the prophecies - as any Jewish site can tell you. Instead he was put to death.

When you hear the fat lady start to sing, get bak to me.

I'm going to guess the Jews understand their Sacred Texts better then you and other Christians. And I obviously understand more then you do. So where does that leave you?

Not gueeing, knowing your guesses are wrong.

And there is the PROOF - that you don't understand Tanakh.

Be specific. What do I not understand? You don' know do you?

The Jewish people are referred to as Israel, and YHVH's Son, and the Suffering Servant, etc.

If you understood the requirement for the sacrifices in the Levitical sacrificial system, you wuld understand that israel can' be the suffering servant.

That "called out of Egypt" is the Exodus story.

God did not call them out. He brought them out(Ex 12:51,Ex13:3, Ex 13:9 and many more such verses). With just a little study,you would know those hings.

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith YHVH, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Exodus 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand YHVH brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

*

Evidently you don't understand the difference between "called" and "brought."

Christians are also sons of God(Gal 3:26, Rom 8:14) and if you understood allegory, you wold know that God has brought Christians out of bondage also.

 

[wizanda]

You've obviously never read those parts of the Tanach that say G-d's covenant with the Jews is eternal. It will never be abolished.

Unfortunately God didn't break his promise; they paid 30 pieces of silver to divorce God (Zechariah 11), which is why the 2nd temple could be destroyed, as there was no covenant in affect.

There has just been a diaspora for the last two thousand years where the Jews have been persecuted from nation to nation, as promised by Moses and the prophets, when they completely turned away from God.

Isaiah 43:28 Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel an insult.”

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to my chosen; and the Lord Yahweh will kill you. He will call his servants by another name.

Because of being a bunch of obstinate (stiff necked), mockers and scoffers, they're no longer chosen according to the text, they've been driven around the world by God with a defiled/broken covenant (Ezekiel 4:13), and yet they still refuse correction.

Hosea 5:15 I will go and return to my place, until they acknowledge their offense, and seek my face. In their affliction they will seek me earnestly.”

Now fair enough to be precise the promise made to Jacob shall be kept; yet the Messiah shall select those that are truly faithful from out of the tribes of the world (Israel).

Hosea 5:5-6 The pride of Israel testifies to his face. Therefore Israel and Ephraim will stumble in their iniquity. Judah also will stumble with them. (6) They will go with their flocks and with their herds to seek Yahweh; but they won’t find him. He has withdrawn himself from them.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.

It is only those who accept Yeshua, and what the prophets instructed within the Marvelous Work (Zechariah 8:6) that shall remain in the Messianic age, the rest are under a curse/inception to be removed from reality.

Zechariah 8:13 It shall come to pass that, as you were a curse among the nations, house of Judah and house of Israel, so I will save you, and you shall be a blessing. Don’t be afraid. Let your hands be strong.”

 

[outlawState]

You've obviously never read those parts of the Tanach that say G-d's covenant with the Jews is eternal. It will never be abolished.

G-d says to Abraham in Genesis 17:6-10,

"I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be G-d to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their G-d.”

Psalm 94:14: "For the L-rd will not forsake his people; he will not abandon his heritage;"

Isaiah 42:16: "I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on paths they have not known. I will turn darkness to light in front of them and rough places into level ground. This is what I will do for them, and I will not forsake them. "

Yes, the covenant was made with Abraham and not with Judah or the Jews. The Jews just happened to be one section of the descendants of Abraham who figured prominently due to accidents of history. Of course there would be many many other people besides the Jews who could claim ancestral descent from Abraham.

So in working out who is a descendant of Abraham, one has to have regard to other matter besides "who is a Jew."

And we learn from the New Testament that Roms 2 "A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God."

And so we see that anyone can become a descendant of Abraham, even if only a "grafted in" descendant, provided they circumcise their hearts.

And we also see that those who do not circumcise their hearts and who are literal descendants of Abraham will be cut off, like all the other descendants of Abraham besides the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

 

[Rival]

Yes, the covenant was made with Abraham and not with Judah or the Jews. The Jews just happened to be one section of the descendants of Abraham who figured prominently due to accidents of history. Of course there would be many many other people besides the Jews who could claim ancestral descent from Abraham.

So in working out who is a descendant of Abraham, one has to have regard to other matter besides "who is a Jew."

And we learn from the New Testament that Roms 2 "A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God."

And so we see that anyone can become a descendant of Abraham, even if only a "grafted in" descendant, provided they circumcise their hearts.

And we also see that those who do not circumcise their hearts and who are literal descendants of Abraham will be cut off, like all the other descendants of Abraham besides the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.

I, nor the Jews, care what your NT definition of a Jew is. It is incompatible with the Tanach.

 

[omega2xx]

Baloney. He fulfills nothing that any regular Jew reading Tanakh could do. He FAILS with things requiring power to bring the end prophecies. The NT is written after Jesus' death and proves nothing. Not even any proof for so-called miracles.

I have a written record that says Jesus did many things no Jew could do. If you say it is not true, it is up to you to prove it. Why should I take your word for anything in the Bible you say is not true?

LOL! Right! God telling him to do his Job, on Job isn't a command? See full in #181 above.

He not only told him to do it, but the rest of the text tells us over and over that YHVH is the one responsible.

Funny how you folks pick and choose what you want it to say.[/QUOTE]

Is your reading comprehension that poor? He did not tell Satan what to do. and it certainly doens' tsay God is responsible. Sad how you folks twist the Scriptures to fit your agenda.

Facts are not irrelevant! The FACT that those, after Jesus' death (as in he can't counter them) texts, have error in regards to Tanakh, - tells us they are made-up by those later people.

YAWN. Talk is heap. where are your FACTS.

Ask our Jewish members here.

To be "a be born a Jew" your mother needed to be a Jew.

However, the Jewish Lines were passed down through the father. Which is why we have those male genealogies in the Bible - that leave women out. And it specifically says from the LINE OF KING DAVID[/QUOTE]

Talk is cheap;. Where are your facts?

Already took care of this - YOUR ERROR. See # 187. Here it is again.

And there is the PROOF that you folks don't understand Tanakh.

The Jewish people are referred to as Israel, and YHVH's Son, and the Suffering Servant, etc.

That "called out of Egypt" is the Exodus story.

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Exo 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.

*

You don't even understand your own Scriptures. I explained the difference about "called" and "brought," but I am sure it will not sink in.

 

[wizanda]

And so we see that anyone can become a descendant of Abraham, even if only a "grafted in"

Sadly this misses the point Zechariah 11:10 ends the covenant made with all people i.e. the Abrahmic covenant was nullified when they paid 30 pieces of silver, and rejected their Lord.

This is why they've changed Yeshua's name, so people don't realize the connection within the Tanakh, made up both John's, and Paul's writings, helped organized the Catholic religion, as they've tried to misrepresent what has taken place.

By grafting the Gentiles on to their defiled cursed covenant wasn't done by Yeshua, it was done by the Pharisees, which is where Revelation says the Church is following the synagogue of satan.

 

[outlawState]

I, nor the Jews, care what your NT definition of a Jew is. It is incompatible with the Tanach.

My definition? I'm quoting a Jew's (or rather Benjamite's) definition of a Jew. Are you more versed in the Tanak than Paul, the Pharisee, was? You can only cite your own sectarian position. You cannot speak claim to speak for the Tanak.

 

[Rival]

My definition? I'm quoting a Jew's (or rather Benjamite's) definition of a Jew. Are you more versed in the Tanak than Paul, the Pharisee, was? You can only cite your own sectarian position. You cannot speak claim to speak for the Tanak.

Jews will not allow themselves to be defined by Christian Scripture. Paul twisted the Tanach to a whole new level. Any Rabbi will tell you that.

Look at what Paul writes in Romans 11:26,

And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written,

“Out of Zion will come the Deliverer;
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob.”

vs what the passage in the Tanach actually says,

And he will come to Zion as Redeemer,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the L-rd.

Isaiah 59:20

What the original passage is saying is that the redeemer will come to Zion, not out of it, and the people have to turn from their sins by themselves, the redeemer won't do it for them.

 

[outlawState]

Jews will not allow themselves to be defined by Christian Scripture. Paul twisted the Tanach to a whole new level. Any Rabbi will tell you that.

Yours is a sectarian position. You cannot and do not speak for "Jews" in general. There are many Christian Jews.
Check out "www.jewsforjesus.org.uk, Jews for Jesus: Sharing Our Faith in Jesus as Messiah to our Jewish People"

Moreover even within non-Christian Judaism, there are a myriad of different beliefs and opinions.

 

[Rival]

Yours is a sectarian position. You cannot and do not speak for "Jews" in general. There are many Christian Jews.
Check out "www.jewsforjesus.org.uk, Jews for Jesus: Sharing Our Faith in Jesus as Messiah to our Jewish People"

Moreover even within non-Christian Judaism, there are a myriad of different beliefs and opinions.

Lol, Jews for Jesus. Please spare me.

Also, there is no such thing as 'Christian Judaism'. It's a Christian wet dream. It's just Christianity with some Hebrew words and festivals thrown in to attract naive Jews.