SoyLeche
meh...
I honor both of my Grandfather's who have passed on. Does that mean I should pray to them?SoyLeche said:Like I've already said - I do honor/respect her. I don't see how that needs to equate to prayer though.
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I honor both of my Grandfather's who have passed on. Does that mean I should pray to them?SoyLeche said:Like I've already said - I do honor/respect her. I don't see how that needs to equate to prayer though.
Why do we think everything must be spelled out to the letter in the Bible. Does anyone think God gave us the ability to extrapolate some of the details perhaps not specifically stated ? I agree with this quote very much .sojourner said:Must all praxis be Biblical?
I hope this doesn't go off topic, but I found this very different verseSunMessenger said:Since I have never heard a claim that The Holy Mother is God, then is praying for Her to pray with us worship of another God ? The Commandments ask us to Honor Both Our Father and Mother. Since these are from God does it not make sense to Honor Mary ?
"Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you."
That of course would be your choice. I pray for relatives that have passed on everyday. Ofcourse my relatives are not in the same category as the relatives of Jesus. Therefore my prayers are quite different in that respect. We are discussing Jesus Mother so I do not want to mix up the debate.SoyLeche said:I honor both of my Grandfather's who have passed on. Does that mean I should pray to them?
Perhaps you are correct. The question still remains given the motivation of prayer to The Holy Mother is for forgiveness of sins and repentance , what harm does it do for those who choose to pray with Her?SoyLeche said:Well, to answer the OP as simply as possible, here are the reasons that I believe many Christians do not pray to the Holy Mother:
- No Biblical precedence for doing so
- No need for any other mediator between us and God but Christ
I don't know that it does any harm, except possibly distracting from the real source of forgiveness and repentance.SunMessenger said:Perhaps you are correct. The question still remains given the motivation of prayer to The Holy Mother is for forgiveness of sins and repentance , what harm does it do for those who choose to pray with Her?
My mind is a bit slow today what did Luke infer here?EnhancedSpirit said:I hope this doesn't go off topic, but I found this very different verse
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
We do not ask The Holy Mother to forgive sin. We ask Her to pray with us through Jesus . So where is the distraction?God is still the ultimate authority.SoyLeche said:I don't know that it does any harm, except possibly distracting from the real source of forgiveness and repentance.
That's why I said possibly. Personally, I'll ask God directly to forgive me. I don't need Mary to do it for me.SunMessenger said:We do not ask The Holy Mother to forgive sin. We ask Her to pray with us through Jesus . So where is the distraction?God is still the ultimate authority.
Well Good for you. Thats OK. I still do not see the harm in Honoring The Mother Of Jesus by recognizing Her in prayer. There is still no answer to the question. Why does she not deserve the Honor Of Christians? Why are Christians so unwilling to give thanks for Her wonderful obedience to God ? Since we believe in Jesus and that He was born to Mary and was conceived by Immaculate Conception then who else on earth was loved or trusted by God to do anything as important or similar ?SoyLeche said:That's why I said possibly. Personally, I'll ask God directly to forgive me. I don't need Mary to do it for me.
That's all well and good - but I don't believe that devotions to Mary are necesary to focus my heart on God. I think most people that do not involve Mary (or any Saints, for that matter) in their worship of God would agree with me.sojourner said:I think we're confusing the object of the prayer here. The object of the prayer is always God. This is basically no different than when one of my parishioners asks me to pray for them. Do they think I'm God? No. Do they think of me as another significant way for them to connect with God and God's community? Yes. Formulaic devotions to Mary are not the same thing as prayer to Mary, nor is it worship of Mary. It's simply a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.
Protestantism is not the only way to understand theology or what the Bible says to us. American restorationism is not the only way to understand praxis. Roman Catholicism is neither.
Each of these has good to offer. It is the good that we should notice and keep. I could not agree more.sojourner said:I think we're confusing the object of the prayer here. The object of the prayer is always God. This is basically no different than when one of my parishioners asks me to pray for them. Do they think I'm God? No. Do they think of me as another significant way for them to connect with God and God's community? Yes. Formulaic devotions to Mary are not the same thing as prayer to Mary, nor is it worship of Mary. It's simply a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.
Protestantism is not the only way to understand theology or what the Bible says to us. American restorationism is not the only way to understand praxis. Roman Catholicism is neither.
SunMessenger said:Well Good for you. Thats OK. I still do not see the harm in Honoring The Mother Of Jesus by recognizing Her in prayer. There is still no answer to the question. Why does she not deserve the Honor Of Christians?
Why are Christians so unwilling to give thanks for Her wonderful obedience to God ?
Christ comes to mind.Since we believe in Jesus and that He was born to Mary and was conceived by Immaculate Conception then who else on earth was loved or trusted by God to do anything as important or similar ?
This is just one of those biblical contradictions that I have not figured out yet. Why in one place are we told to honor our mother and father, and later told that if we don't hate our mother and father, we cannot be disciples?SunMessenger said:My mind is a bit slow today what did Luke infer here?
This website is also a great informational tool and quite interesting . This is the link... http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian.htmSaint George said:Mary has appeared to many Saints and common folk over the centuries. The most famous ones are at Fatima, Portugal and and at Lourdes, France and there have been many others. Her messages are consistent with the teaching of Christ. Her messages are not asking us to worship her or to glorify her. And she is not trying to introduce a new religion or philosophy. She is reinforcing the teachings of Christ, and that's what makes her messages so profound. The visions of Mary throughout the ages have offered inspirations to millions, warned of danger and strenghened our faith in Christ.
It's funny to listen to the mormon soylech on this forum. Sure, we are here to exchange ideas and learn from each other. But, to dismiss Mary and her encounters with ordinary people throughout the ages is really quite remarkable. Especially, when you consider that he puts so much faith in a vision that has absolutely no reference in the gospels. Just amazing!
For those interested in pursuing this topic. I would recommend a book called "Viisions of Mary" by Peter Eicher, ISB-N-0-380-78270-7. It's great reading and it will hold your attention even if you do not believe in Mary.
:yes:
SoyLeche said:That's all well and good - but I don't believe that devotions to Mary are necesary to focus my heart on God. I think most people that do not involve Mary (or any Saints, for that matter) in their worship of God would agree with me.
The Immaculate Conception I refer to is the conception of Christ.SoyLeche said:Side note - I didn't think that the Immaculate Conception referred to the conception of Christ. I thought it had something to do with a belief that Mary was free from Origional Sin from the time she was conceived. Correct me if I'm wrong.