• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why Do Some Christians Not Recognize The Holy Mother Of Jesus?

SoyLeche

meh...
SoyLeche said:
Like I've already said - I do honor/respect her. I don't see how that needs to equate to prayer though.
I honor both of my Grandfather's who have passed on. Does that mean I should pray to them?
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
sojourner said:
Must all praxis be Biblical?
Why do we think everything must be spelled out to the letter in the Bible. Does anyone think God gave us the ability to extrapolate some of the details perhaps not specifically stated ? I agree with this quote very much .
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
SunMessenger said:
Since I have never heard a claim that The Holy Mother is God, then is praying for Her to pray with us worship of another God ? The Commandments ask us to Honor Both Our Father and Mother. Since these are from God does it not make sense to Honor Mary ?


"Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you."
I hope this doesn't go off topic, but I found this very different verse
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
SoyLeche said:
I honor both of my Grandfather's who have passed on. Does that mean I should pray to them?
That of course would be your choice. I pray for relatives that have passed on everyday. Ofcourse my relatives are not in the same category as the relatives of Jesus. Therefore my prayers are quite different in that respect. We are discussing Jesus Mother so I do not want to mix up the debate.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Well, to answer the OP as simply as possible, here are the reasons that I believe many Christians do not pray to the Holy Mother:

- No Biblical precedence for doing so
- No need for any other mediator between us and God but Christ
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
SoyLeche said:
Well, to answer the OP as simply as possible, here are the reasons that I believe many Christians do not pray to the Holy Mother:

- No Biblical precedence for doing so
- No need for any other mediator between us and God but Christ
Perhaps you are correct. The question still remains given the motivation of prayer to The Holy Mother is for forgiveness of sins and repentance , what harm does it do for those who choose to pray with Her?
 

SoyLeche

meh...
SunMessenger said:
Perhaps you are correct. The question still remains given the motivation of prayer to The Holy Mother is for forgiveness of sins and repentance , what harm does it do for those who choose to pray with Her?
I don't know that it does any harm, except possibly distracting from the real source of forgiveness and repentance.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
EnhancedSpirit said:
I hope this doesn't go off topic, but I found this very different verse
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
My mind is a bit slow today what did Luke infer here?
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
SoyLeche said:
I don't know that it does any harm, except possibly distracting from the real source of forgiveness and repentance.
We do not ask The Holy Mother to forgive sin. We ask Her to pray with us through Jesus . So where is the distraction?God is still the ultimate authority.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
SunMessenger said:
We do not ask The Holy Mother to forgive sin. We ask Her to pray with us through Jesus . So where is the distraction?God is still the ultimate authority.
That's why I said possibly. Personally, I'll ask God directly to forgive me. I don't need Mary to do it for me.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I think we're confusing the object of the prayer here. The object of the prayer is always God. This is basically no different than when one of my parishioners asks me to pray for them. Do they think I'm God? No. Do they think of me as another significant way for them to connect with God and God's community? Yes. Formulaic devotions to Mary are not the same thing as prayer to Mary, nor is it worship of Mary. It's simply a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.

Protestantism is not the only way to understand theology or what the Bible says to us. American restorationism is not the only way to understand praxis. Roman Catholicism is neither.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
SoyLeche said:
That's why I said possibly. Personally, I'll ask God directly to forgive me. I don't need Mary to do it for me.
Well Good for you. Thats OK. I still do not see the harm in Honoring The Mother Of Jesus by recognizing Her in prayer. There is still no answer to the question. Why does she not deserve the Honor Of Christians? Why are Christians so unwilling to give thanks for Her wonderful obedience to God ? Since we believe in Jesus and that He was born to Mary and was conceived by Immaculate Conception then who else on earth was loved or trusted by God to do anything as important or similar ?
 

SoyLeche

meh...
sojourner said:
I think we're confusing the object of the prayer here. The object of the prayer is always God. This is basically no different than when one of my parishioners asks me to pray for them. Do they think I'm God? No. Do they think of me as another significant way for them to connect with God and God's community? Yes. Formulaic devotions to Mary are not the same thing as prayer to Mary, nor is it worship of Mary. It's simply a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.

Protestantism is not the only way to understand theology or what the Bible says to us. American restorationism is not the only way to understand praxis. Roman Catholicism is neither.
That's all well and good - but I don't believe that devotions to Mary are necesary to focus my heart on God. I think most people that do not involve Mary (or any Saints, for that matter) in their worship of God would agree with me.
 
Mary has appeared to many Saints and common folk over the centuries. The most famous ones are at Fatima, Portugal and and at Lourdes, France and there have been many others. Her messages are consistent with the teaching of Christ. Her messages are not asking us to worship her or to glorify her. And she is not trying to introduce a new religion or philosophy. She is reinforcing the teachings of Christ, and that's what makes her messages so profound. The visions of Mary throughout the ages have offered inspirations to millions, warned of danger and strenghened our faith in Christ.

It's funny to listen to the mormon soylech on this forum. Sure, we are here to exchange ideas and learn from each other. But, to dismiss Mary and her encounters with ordinary people throughout the ages is really quite remarkable. Especially, when you consider that he puts so much faith in a vision that has absolutely no reference in the gospels. Just amazing!

For those interested in pursuing this topic. I would recommend a book called "Viisions of Mary" by Peter Eicher, ISB-N-0-380-78270-7. It's great reading and it will hold your attention even if you do not believe in Mary.

:yes:
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
sojourner said:
I think we're confusing the object of the prayer here. The object of the prayer is always God. This is basically no different than when one of my parishioners asks me to pray for them. Do they think I'm God? No. Do they think of me as another significant way for them to connect with God and God's community? Yes. Formulaic devotions to Mary are not the same thing as prayer to Mary, nor is it worship of Mary. It's simply a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.

Protestantism is not the only way to understand theology or what the Bible says to us. American restorationism is not the only way to understand praxis. Roman Catholicism is neither.
Each of these has good to offer. It is the good that we should notice and keep. I could not agree more.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
SunMessenger said:
Well Good for you. Thats OK. I still do not see the harm in Honoring The Mother Of Jesus by recognizing Her in prayer. There is still no answer to the question. Why does she not deserve the Honor Of Christians?

I would argue that she does recieve the honor or Christians pretty much everywhere. I think we disagree in what honoring someone means though
Why are Christians so unwilling to give thanks for Her wonderful obedience to God ?

Again, the large majority of Chirstians are thankful for her and her example.
Since we believe in Jesus and that He was born to Mary and was conceived by Immaculate Conception then who else on earth was loved or trusted by God to do anything as important or similar ?
Christ comes to mind.

Side note - I didn't think that the Immaculate Conception referred to the conception of Christ. I thought it had something to do with a belief that Mary was free from Origional Sin from the time she was conceived. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
SunMessenger said:
My mind is a bit slow today what did Luke infer here?
This is just one of those biblical contradictions that I have not figured out yet. Why in one place are we told to honor our mother and father, and later told that if we don't hate our mother and father, we cannot be disciples?

The bible also tells us that whenever two or more come together in the name of God(same as the name of Love), the prayer is even more powerful, (or something like that, I don't remember the exact verse).

I think in most cases, all of us pray to God, with the aide of other beings (Mother Mary, Saints, Angels, Isis, Gaia, Buddha, etc.) for this reason, and not as a substitute for praying to God.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
Saint George said:
Mary has appeared to many Saints and common folk over the centuries. The most famous ones are at Fatima, Portugal and and at Lourdes, France and there have been many others. Her messages are consistent with the teaching of Christ. Her messages are not asking us to worship her or to glorify her. And she is not trying to introduce a new religion or philosophy. She is reinforcing the teachings of Christ, and that's what makes her messages so profound. The visions of Mary throughout the ages have offered inspirations to millions, warned of danger and strenghened our faith in Christ.

It's funny to listen to the mormon soylech on this forum. Sure, we are here to exchange ideas and learn from each other. But, to dismiss Mary and her encounters with ordinary people throughout the ages is really quite remarkable. Especially, when you consider that he puts so much faith in a vision that has absolutely no reference in the gospels. Just amazing!

For those interested in pursuing this topic. I would recommend a book called "Viisions of Mary" by Peter Eicher, ISB-N-0-380-78270-7. It's great reading and it will hold your attention even if you do not believe in Mary.

:yes:
This website is also a great informational tool and quite interesting . This is the link... http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian.htm
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
SoyLeche said:
That's all well and good - but I don't believe that devotions to Mary are necesary to focus my heart on God. I think most people that do not involve Mary (or any Saints, for that matter) in their worship of God would agree with me.

I didn't say they were necessary. I said they are a way to focus the heart upon God in greater communion.

There is not one RC doctrine that says that devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation or communion with God. It's misconceptions like this that keep us all apart.

So, the Latter-Day Saints do not involve the Saints in their worship of God? Are we not all involved in the worship of God? Are we not all saints of God? Who excludes the people of God from worship? Does not the Bible speak of a "great cloud of witnesses?" Who excluded those who have gone before from worship? If you don't "involve the Saints" in the worship of God, you're fooling yourself. Mary is as much a part of the Church as the saint sitting next to you in the pew.
 

SunMessenger

Catholic
SoyLeche said:
Side note - I didn't think that the Immaculate Conception referred to the conception of Christ. I thought it had something to do with a belief that Mary was free from Origional Sin from the time she was conceived. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Immaculate Conception I refer to is the conception of Christ.
 
Top