Why do non thiests enter a Religious Forum ???

[Quagmire]

Like I said ,its' not personal and has happened to me several times,but I don't lose sleep over it.
So can you brush it off and carry on ?

You really can't hear other people when they talk to you can you?

But you seem to make up for that by believing everything your head tells you. :yes:

 

[roli]

Then there should be no problem getting audio or video recordings, right? After all, electronic equipment is completely unbiased and objective, as it's incapable of making judgments or choices. The claim that people "refuse" to see God and his actions is a pathetic cop-out. If God were to truly intervene, interact and communicate it would be impossible to deny. It would be too profound and unmistakable to miss.

What are you referring to "audio video recordings" I lost you.
What are saying ,if God were to raise the dead, that would be proof enough for you.
I'm sure the human intellect would reason that display of his miraculous power away .
You can't acknowledge the complexities around you within the universe as a miraculous display of his mighty hand, why,because you reason it away and create a fable that suits your own purposes and justifies you submitting to his word.

Anyone can put words in gods mouth, and without something to substantiate them they're totally worthless

Who's putting words in God's mouth ,I;m only standing on what he has already said,it's you that has a problem with that.

. For example, If someone quote the Koran to you would you convert to Islam? Of course not, so why would you bother quoting the bible to someone who doesn't believe in it? I could write a book saying that I'm god, and that my book is infallible because I'm god. And if it's infallible it's claim that I'm god must be true. It's call circular logic

I quote it because it;s answer's are powerful and more profound then what the human mind can comprehend.
Because it's truth prevails and can penetrate the hardest heart and the most stubborn will and it has done so down through the ages from the greatest skeptics to the most prominent philosophical minds.

 

[roli]

You really can't hear other people when they talk to you can you?

But you seem to make up for that by believing everything your head tells you. :yes:

Hear you repeat yourself..over and over again.
Your really stuck here are'nt you.
Well, when your ready to move past this ,let me know.

 

[Quagmire]

Hear you repeat yourself..over and over again.
Your really stuck here are'nt you.
Well, when your ready to move past this ,let me know.

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the pseudo-answers you give just about everyone in just about every post you respond to.

Like I said; you don't hear people when they talk to you, you can't afford to. If you did, you might find yourself accidentilly understanding someone else and where they're coming from.

Your whole world view is dependant on assumptions in place of understanding.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You seem to think you can read my mail,tell me prophet, how am I being dishonest?

Are you a Bad Religion fan? Because the only place I've ever heard that expression is in their song "Man with a Mission".

 

[Father Heathen]

What are you referring to "audio video recordings" I lost you.

You seem to get lost quite easily.

What are saying ,if God were to raise the dead, that would be proof enough for you. I'm sure the human intellect would reason that display of his miraculous power away.

See, you and your faith only offer excuses rather than results.

You can't acknowledge the complexities around you within the universe as a miraculous display of his mighty hand, why,because you reason it away and create a fable that suits your own purposes and justifies you submitting to his word.

What you fail to understand is that even if god were real, that wouldn't necessarily make the things man attributes to him (religions, holy books, prophets, etc.) true.

Who's putting words in God's mouth ,I;m only standing on what he has already said,it's you that has a problem with that.

I have a problem with it because such claims are unsubstantiated. Like I said, anyone can write a book and say god told them to write it, but it would be rather foolish to take their word for it without any proof or evidence, wouldn't it? How many religions do you think there are? How many holy books and sacred texts there are? Countless. Anyone can speak and write things and claim they came from god, but only a fool would readily believe such bold claims without question or doubt. Such people fall victim to swindlers and snake oil salesmen. Blind faith and devotion makes people easy to manipulate and exploit. Were you unable to grasp what I said about circular logic? You're dealing with thinking brains here, son. You're not going to get anywhere. When it comes to God I need more than mere words. Besides, the bible portrays God as a petty and infantile ogre, so even if it were true your god would be unworthy of my worship.

I quote it because it;s answer's are powerful and more profound then what the human mind can comprehend.
Because it's truth prevails and can penetrate the hardest heart and the most stubborn will and it has done so down through the ages from the greatest skeptics to the most prominent philosophical minds.

It's a sloppy, inconsistent, ineffecient, irrational, contradictory, inaccurate and absurd book. I would've expected much, much, much, much better from the most intelligent being in the world. But in reality the bible is simply primitive and savage slop written by bronze age goat herders, most of it unoriginal and pilfered.

 

[roli]

I read you like a book, which, I'm guessing, is why you avoid addressing the posts I direct at you (except this time, as I predicted in this post)

You know absolutely nothing about me, as you suppose.
So could you get to the question you have asked that I, inadvertently overlooked?

It doesn't take any special gift to see through people like you.

What is, and what you suppose,are two very different things.

By setting up strawmen.

You call my belief and the defense thereof, a strawman arguement.
Elaborate if you will??

By never giving a straight answer to a direct question.

Ask your question and I'll be straight.

By intentionally pretending to misunderstand what's being said to you.

Actually ,when I say I don't follow you,I mean it, because in your response,you leave out "references" of what your referring to.I'm not a mind reader.

By taking, apparently, any written material you get your hands on from any source--including the Bible and other people's posts--out of context.

Example please ?

This is just the abbreviated list

Maybe I should examine your responses to threads a little closer, it may better help me place you under the microscope.
But,I could care less how many people refuse to reply to me, excuse ,justify evade the question or fail to respond in conjuction with my response, regardless of how much time I placed in that response.
Although I may comment on it once, I just don't push the issue, it's a waste of time.
I feel they are just not interested or have something better to do,maybe just unintentioanlly overlooked it.
Sometimes people ask rhetorical questions that really indicate their not looking for a response.
I don't know why exactly I have overlooked responding to you and for that I'm truly sorry, it was not intentional and I have nothing I am afraid of or am avoiding.
So could you get to your point or let it alone until the next time we meet.

 

[Quagmire]

You know absolutely nothing about me, as you suppose.
So could you get to the question you have asked that I, inadvertently overlooked?

When did I say I had a question? And why would I ask a question of someone who, as I already stated, I consider incapable of giving an honest answer?

What is, and what you suppose,are two very different things.

What is, and what I observe are, IMO, vastly more reliable than anything you could tell me.

You call my belief and the defense thereof, a strawman arguement. Elaborate if you will??

I'm wondering what you believe. I know what you've said, but then I see what you do and it doesn't add up.

If you want an example of a strawman, this thread will serve nicely.

Ask your question and I'll be straight.

OK; what are you doing here? This forum is set up to give people of all religions and beliefs a chance to come together and, hopefully, gain a little understanding about each other and what they believe.

As I've pointed out, you're pretty obviously opposed to understanding of any sort. In fact you seem to be dead set on spreading and perpetuating as much mis-understanding as you possibly can.

An "author of confusion" one might say.

So like I say, what are you doing here?

Actually ,when I say I don't follow you,I mean it, because in your response,you leave out "references" of what your referring to.I'm not a mind reader.

Again, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the way you routinely respond to most everybody in here.

Example please ?

Every response you've made to every one of my posts in this thread.

You wont let go of the notion that I'm really just saying all this to get even for your lack of response to my posts. Convienant; it gives you an excuse to disregard everything that I'm saying to you now.

And wrong. I'll say it again; I'm actually proud of the fact that you, as I saw it, couldn't answer my posts.

Maybe I should examine your responses to threads a little closer, it may better help me place you under the microscope.

Feel free.

 

[McBell]

Far as I can remember Roli's never replied to any of my posts. I'm kind of proud of that.

Of course now that I've said that he'll most likely feel like he has to.

Had to go and jinx it, didn't ya...

 

[Beaudreaux]

What are saying ,if God were to raise the dead, that would be proof enough for you.
I'm sure the human intellect would reason that display of his miraculous power away .

I am genuinely curious whether or not it bothers you to have to defend God's decision to not be miraculous. Do you ever get tired of saying "Well, God COULD do a miracle right now. He just doesn't feel like it because you wouldn't believe him ANYway."?

 

[roli]

When did I say I had a question? And why would I ask a question of someone who, as I already stated, I consider incapable of giving an honest answer?

Your sounding doublemined here!

What is, and what I observe are, IMO, vastly more reliable than anything you could tell me.

Of course they are!!

I'm wondering what you believe. I know what you've said, but then I see what you do and it doesn't add up.

This is a rhetorical question, right!

OK; what are you doing here?

Now,I'm going out on a limb here, is this a question ?

This forum is set up to give people of all religions and beliefs a chance to come together and, hopefully, gain a little understanding about each other and what they believe.

If you have followed enough of my posts, as you have alluded to you would know what I believe. but if your asking the question for clarity, then I will give you an answer, but maybe you can't handle the truth of what I have been saying.

As I've pointed out, you're pretty obviously opposed to understanding of any sort. In fact you seem to be dead set on spreading and perpetuating as much mis-understanding as you possibly can.

Elaborate ?

An "author of confusion" one might say

Understanding the christian faith can be confusing and irrational sounding ,so I understand your confusion,but get to your point and stop playing games.

So like I say, what are you doing here?

Would this be the time your asking a question, and not contradicting your opening line(quote=Quagmire;1459209]

When did I say I had a question? )
I'm here to gain insight into other religions and be able to give defense of my faith when it is in question. It's rather simple and quite obvious.
I'm sorry I don't spend hours on line trying to establish lasting relationships with people who I feel are here for the same reasons.
There are some who you are respectful, regardless of what or how I respond, by that I mean using scripture etc.
If I meet someone who is serious and mature about dialoguing and is not bent on just complaining how wacked and irrational my views are and who come off as being sarcastic,demeaning, then I will give my undivided attention to being understanding.
It has happened, but a strong Christian view and making bold assertions from that perspective are not a fav in the secular world today, nor on this site.
I don';t consider sarcasim and derogatory posting in reponse to my posts as grounds for relationship building,not that it can't be ,but I'm entitled to percieve offense and insult, not that I'm so distraught that I lose sleep over it.
I will still debate and convey my views or opposition to, but I don't perceive much of a relationship being developed with such threads.
I'm a guy who likes to cut to the chase and debate, that's just me.
My personal life is full of building relationships with others,sharing the gospel message of hope,reaching hosptial /seniors shut ins,feeding,blessing people less fortunate, being a big brother etc.
For your information, if you were in my community and asked around, my wife and I are well respected and known for the people we reach out and touch.

Again, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the way you routinely respond to most everybody in here.

I do my best at responding,but it's obviously not to your satisfaction.
Like I said I don't spend hours on this forum as my number of posts in the past 5 yrs indicate. I'm sorry your displeased with that, but I do have a life and an active one at that.

You wont let go of the notion that I'm really just saying all this to get even for your lack of response to my posts. Convienant; it gives you an excuse to disregard everything that I'm saying to you now.

And you wonder why, you don't get the answers your looking for.
This is my point in why I don't get down and personal with sarcastic people like you.
You don't deserve an honest answer.

And wrong. I'll say it again; I'm actually proud of the fact that you, as I saw it, couldn't answer my posts.

Your right, you win and remain triumphant:clap!

 

[Alceste]

This is my point in why I don't get down and personal with sarcastic people like you.
You don't deserve an honest answer.

How very Christ-like.

 

[Green Gaia]

Why do non thiests enter a Religious Forum ???

Because you don't have to be a theist to be religious or enjoy religious topics/discussion/issues/debate, etc.

 

[roli]

How very Christ-like.

So being a Christian means,.... I should be a welcome mat in which to wipe sarcasim and derogatory insults, please spare me the assumption, I should tolerate that.

 

[Alceste]

So being a Christian means,.... I should be a welcome mat in which to wipe sarcasim and derogatory insults, please spare me the assumption, I should tolerate that.

Don't take my word for it, take Christ's word:

“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 “Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 “Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44 “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So being a Christian means,.... I should be a welcome mat in which to wipe sarcasim and derogatory insults, please spare me the assumption, I should tolerate that.

Didn't Jesus say not only to tolerate it but to rejoice because of it?

Matthew 5:11-12:

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[Quagmire]

Your sounding doublemined here!

Only to someone who's seeing double. :yes:

This is a rhetorical question, right!

No, it's an observation.

Now,I'm going out on a limb here, is this a question ?

PROGRESS!!! Yes Roli! See the "?" after the sentence? that would indicate a question is being asked (there may be hope yet).

If you have followed enough of my posts, as you have alluded to you would know what I believe. but if your asking the question for clarity, then I will give you an answer, but maybe you can't handle the truth of what I have been saying.

Truth in your posts? I'm sure I could handle it if I could find it.

Elaborate ?

I already gave you a list. I could expand on it if you like.

Understanding the christian faith can be confusing and irrational sounding ,

This has nothing to do with the Christian faith or any other faith; it has to do with honest communication between human beings.

so I understand your confusion,

The only thing I'm still confused about is whether or not your even aware of what your doing.

but get to your point and stop playing games.

YES! If you would I'd be grateful (and amazed).

I'm here to gain insight into other religions and be able to give defense of my faith when it is in question. It's rather simple and quite obvious.

No, it's not obvious at all.

I'm sorry I don't spend hours on line trying to establish lasting relationships with people who I feel are here for the same reasons.

Who's asking you too?

There are some who you are respectful, regardless of what or how I respond,

I know, and those people amaze me.

by that I mean using scripture etc.
If I meet someone who is serious and mature about dialoguing and is not bent on just complaining how wacked and irrational my views are and who come off as being sarcastic,demeaning, then I will give my undivided attention to being understanding.
It has happened, but a strong Christian view and making bold assertions from that perspective are not a fav in the secular world today, nor on this site.
I don';t consider sarcasim and derogatory posting in reponse to my posts as grounds for relationship building,not that it can't be ,but I'm entitled to percieve offense and insult, not that I'm so distraught that I lose sleep over it.
I will still debate and convey my views or opposition to, but I don't perceive much of a relationship being developed with such threads.
I'm a guy who likes to cut to the chase and debate, that's just me.
My personal life is full of building relationships with others,sharing the gospel message of hope,reaching hosptial /seniors shut ins,feeding,blessing people less fortunate, being a big brother etc.
For your information, if you were in my community and asked around, my wife and I are well respected and known for the people we reach out and touch.

None of this has anything to do with what were talking about.

I do my best at responding,but it's obviously not to your satisfaction.
Like I said I don't spend hours on this forum as my number of posts in the past 5 yrs indicate. I'm sorry your displeased with that, but I do have a life and an active one at that.

What are you talking about? I couldn't care less how much time you spend here (to be frank, it wouldn't break my heart to see you dissappear altogether). I'm merely making observations about the way you act when you're here.

And you wonder why, you don't get the answers your looking for.

You still don't get it:

1. Any questions I would ever ask you would be geared soley towards either a}.getting you to take a look at yourself. or
b). demonstrating your complete inability or unwillingness to do so.
They don't require answers.

2. I'm not talking about the way you interact with me. I'm making observations about your over all interactions with other people in here. Does it really baffle you that much that someone could raise objections on behalf of other people?

This is my point in why I don't get down and personal with sarcastic people like you.
You don't deserve an honest answer.

And from your perspective that makes it OK to lie?

Your right, you win and remain triumphant:clap!

And here we come to the crux of the problem; this isn't a contest, Roli. It isn't about "winning". Anyone who thinks the idea is to "win", i.e., to get over on someone else, is going to feel free to use whatever tactics they think might serve that purpose.

"In war, truth is the first casualty"

Some people are here to find truth, whatever truth they can. Others come here in order to convince themselves that what they already believe is truth whether it is or not.

Those people can't be reasoned with because to them reason (and truth for that matter) is the enemy.

 

[roli]

Don't take my word for it, take Christ's word:

“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 “If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 “Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 “Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44 “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect".


I have turned my cheek often enough and have attempted to tolerate and subject myself to the the likes of those who continually want to just bash the integrity and faith of Christians who speak out, regarding controversial issues.
Many also choose not to understand or accept our postions and that's fine, but rather want continue to defame and insult and often blaspheme the things of God.
Jesus and the other disciples often fled out of the crowds that were hurrlying such defamatory gestures and insults and he warned them

BTW I do my best to pray for my enemies and love them that persecute.
Those issues are between me and my God.
I do rejoice and count it worthy when I defend the truth of Christ and his teachings, knowing sorrowfully that it is him they are directly insulting for exposing and convicting of sin, which ultimately infuriates so many who inturn direct it to the messenger.
..but he also says "wipe the dust from your shoes".....,
Mar 6:11 — And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

 

[Green Gaia]

Roli, do you think theists should exclude non-theists from religious discussion? Do you think non-theism and religiousness are mutually exclusive terms?

 

[Smoke]

Roli, do you think theists should exclude non-theists from religious discussion? Do you think non-theism and religiousness are mutually exclusive terms?

The thread title and the OP seem to assume two things: Religion is not the type of thing the non-religious should have any interest in, and all religions are theistic.