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Why Did God Create Man?

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Thehoodedmonk, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Thehoodedmonk

    Thehoodedmonk Member

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    God created man for two reasons:
    (1) So that man would become the living temple of God.
    (2) To prove evil does not work.

    I could also ask: why did God create Satan? Let's start with that. Apparently not everything was copacetic in heaven: there were wars going on, Satan was accusing others, Satan invented the lie, etc., etc. So it was necessary to show the difference between good and evil: Good works, evil doesn't. But how does one prove this? One proves that evil does not work by creating someone evil, tha'd be Satan. Then you create this really beautiful and "very good" creation, here on earth, then you cast down Satan and his buddy buddy angels on this "very good" creation to screw it up! And that is exactly what Satan does, his ways destroy. Look at all the great civilizations that have risen on this planet only then to fall flat on their faces. They fall because they refused to do God's will, but instead do Satan's will, and that destroys them. There is a right way to do things, and there is a wrong way to do things, the right way does not fail and can not fail, the wrong way always fails. I hope the Holy Angels are getting something out of this.
     
  2. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    I'd agree with that

    Good has to be a choice, or it has no meaning. We have to know evil in all its forms and chose to reject it for ourselves, hence free will.

    Easier said than done of course, but there again... it's got to be
     
  3. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

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    I think you are right on your two points, especially the second. It is the only explanation that makes sense. We have God heaven the angels and even Satan and his angels all in a supernatural state, then God comes and makes a physical world, universe and physical humans, all separated from the supernatural. Why would this happen?

    I feel after the fall in heaven God could do nothing to Satan, because if He did, He would be seen as a tyrant, that you had better do as He says or He will destroy you. Rather than have those who stayed follow because they know that choosing evil over good will only end in destruction.

    The only way to do that is to set up a test that will prove that without question. We are put here and are contained to prove the test. Where we (Humans) can get though with minimal damage except for our physical bodies. He paid for our sins so we really do not need to worry about that, just hopefully we understand between good and evil and believe that doing good is the only way ("believe in God or Gods way"), and for the most part we should be alright.

    I feel we have already gone through three resets to show four different, possibilities. And if you go along with String Theory, every possibility there is, is being played out now.
     
  4. Shem Ben Noah

    Shem Ben Noah INACTIVE

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    A VERY Xian slanted view for THIS forum:

    "Discussion of Theistic beliefs across all religions"

    Not every faith believes your version of Satan, mine sure doesn't and there is NO account of ANY angel revolt PERIOD in the 'OT'.

    That being said...

    Genesis makes it VERY clear why we were created. To take care of God's creatures. We do a bad job.
     
  5. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    You aren't getting that from Tanakh.

    Why do you guys keep adding things that aren't there?

    There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh. No Satan thrown down.

    Where does Tanakh say Satan was accusing others, - Other then in his YHVH appointed job of course, - which is to bring wrongdoers before YHVH, - and point out their wrongs?

    Where does Tanakh say Satan is a liar?

    This stuff was made up, and added on to the Satan character, by later groups.

    *
     
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  6. jcforever

    jcforever Member

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    There are two symbolic trees;

    1. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil

    2. The tree of life

    Which tree do you think will be destroyed on the day of the Lord?
     
  7. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    And then there are theologies not rooted in the single omnimax creator deity of the Abrahamic religions, and reject the notions of evil, sin, special creation of humans, etc., outright.
     
  8. hispanicmormon

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    In the beginning, God was a spirit surrounded by nothing. Either a minute spec of sentience without what we would call physical matter, or a vast mist of intelligence that enveloped the infinite realm of space (outer space). We know that God was once a spirit because God calls himself a spirit in the OT just like He calls man a spirit. And my religion teaches through latter-day revelation that God progressed from spirit to glorified man. But God did not remain just a simple spirit. First, he learned to create simple creatures like ants, and plants, and flies. And he envisioned them before he created them. This is what LDS theology refers to as God creating all things spiritually before he created them literally. Even humans. Long before God learned to make humans, he envisioned them spiritually. My religion teaches that God once dwelt on an earth like ours. Basically, God created a world where him and his wife lived and learned everything there is to know about human mortality before he decided to create billions and trillions of spirit children who would one day became men and women like Him and his wife. But Jesus was the first spirit man. And God becomes every spirit child that he makes. So before God dwelt on an earth like ours with his wife, he became Jesus Christ, or Jehovah in the preexistence. Jesus was the first spirit man and thus the first envisioned man even though he was literally born thousands of years after Adam. Adam was the first literal man, and just like God becomes all his spirit children, he also becomes all his literal, created persons. Adam, being the only man on the Earth for a short time, was God fully until more boys and girls were born, or at the latest when Eve was created.

    Satan is the king of all the spirits doomed to not have a mortal body like ours. All these spirits were created for the purpose of tempting us on this Earth. But it would be improper for God himself to be the evil that he wanted to tempt us with. That is why he created Satan and all the other evil spirits. There was a time when God wasn't sure which spirits were going to become men and women on this Earth and which would become Satan and his followers. We vied for position in the preexistence much like someone who has taken 4th-plateau levels of dextromethorphan are vying for position in their drug-induced situation of time and place (research effects of dissociative drugs). In a way, God created evil by creating spirits knowing that one great spirit would become Jesus Christ and another great spirit would become Satan. Satan thinks he is going to win by damning the souls of humans one way or another sending them to telestial kingdom or even worse: a lake of fire with the sons of perdition. But in the end, most humans will enjoy a pleasant, endless life while the people (or gods) in the highest level of celestial kingdom will create worlds just like our God has created this world and worlds without number and will see the sufferings of the souls in hell and derive pleasure of justice through it. Satan and all his evil spirit and all the Master Mahans who rule over Satan will be locked away in outer darkness not being able to influence the souls in the 3 heavens of God.

    This, in a nutshell, is my religion on why God created man.

    To respond to your second statement, about evil not working, I don't agree. I think evil works. If you don't want to have the same values of God i.e. you believe in polyamorous sexual relationships you can enjoy an afterlife in a telestial kingdom. And if you straight up want to revolt against God, you can be doomed in the lake of fire and that will be your existence. That will be how it worked. You will either not have a body of flesh and bones like all the spirits that revolted in the preexistence, or you can be a Master Mahan with a body of flesh and bones that rules over Satan and all the evil spirits. Evil works in getting people to enjoy something that God does not approve of. Evil has consequences, but in the end, it all works out to the advantage of God.
     
  9. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    I see humans as an aspect of the creation, like everything else. I don't know if there is a purpose regarding human creation.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    God did not create Satan to be evil.

    God created Satan to be the most beautiful angel and intelligent being that God created.

    God did not know that Satan was going to be Lawlessness. Untill Lawlessness was found in Satan.

    In the book of Ezekiel 28:15 This being about Satan. "You was perfect in your ways from the day that you was created, till Lawlessness was found in you"

    Notice the word ( till ) means, Satan was perfect in all his ways up to the time Lawlessness was found in Satan.

    Therefore God did not know beforehand that Satan was Lawlessness, from the time Satan was created God did not know Satan would be Lawlessness.
    Satan was perfect in all his ways, up to the time Lawlessness was found in Satan.
    God did not know beforehand. Only when the time Lawlessness was found in Satan.


    Let's for say, you have a apple, and you know there's a worm in it. You can not say the apple is good, if you know beforehand the Apple has a worm in it.
    But if you do not know the Apple has a worm in it, Then you can say the apple is good
    The apple was good, up to the time you found a worm in it.

    Likewise with Satan, Satan was good from the day he was created, up to the time Lawlessness was found in Satan.

    Therefore God did not know beforehand Satan was Lawlessness, till the time Lawlessness was found in Satan.
     
  11. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Except that it doesn't say Satan - because it isn't about Satan.

    Just like the Isaiah verse, this is using flowery language to tell us someone rose to the top, - beautiful, -cherubic, walked among the Elohiym on YHVH's mount, etc., and fell.

    If they were telling us about Satan - they would have used the word.

    Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus (Tyre,) and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

    Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

    Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Eze 28:22 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.

    The Holy Mount is probably the Temple in Jerusalem.

    The jewels are probably the other anointed, king, princes, Priests with their Jeweled breast piece, And of course Tyre's jewels and riches, etc.

    Tyre is an ancient Phoenician port city - which is why 28:16 talks about the Multitude of thy merchandise, and that they eventually became violent. Those Jewels are probably part of their trade as well.

    This would be obvious if you folks would just read them in context. If you had read Ezekiel 27 you would know this is talking about Tyre and her Royalty.

    Eze 27:1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

    Eze 27:2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus (Tyre);

    Eze 27:3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.

    Eze 27:4 Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.

    Eze 27:5 They have made all thy ship boards of fir trees of Senir: they have taken cedars from Lebanon to make masts for thee.

    Eze 27:8 The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots.

    Eze 27:27 Thy riches, and thy fairs, thy merchandise, thy mariners, and thy pilots, thy calkers, and the occupiers of thy merchandise, and all thy men of war, that are in thee, and in all thy company which is in the midst of thee, shall fall into the midst of the seas in the day of thy ruin.


    *
    Below from --- John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    Ezekiel 28:14

    Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth
    ,.... In allusion to the cherubim over the mercy seat, which covered it with their wings; and which, as the ark of the testimony and all the vessels of the tabernacle were anointed, were so likewise; in all probability the king of Tyre is called a "cherub" because of his wisdom and power; "anointed", because of his royal dignity; and "that covereth", because of his office, which was to protect his people; ...

    ... The Targum understands all this of regal power, and renders it, "thou art a king anointed for a kingdom:''

    *
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Look, the covering Cherub that covered, was Lucifer, which later came to be known as, The wicked one, the lawless one, the Devil, the old Serpent, the dragon, and Satan.

    The Serpent is the Serpent that deceived Eve back in the garden of Eden. Genesis 3:13-14.

    Lucifer was the Cherub that stood over the Mercy seat before the Throne of God and walk among the other angels of heaven.

    Ezekiel 28:14--"You are the anointed Cherub that covered, and I have set you so, you was upon the Holy mountain of God, you has walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire"

    Lucifer was the Serpent that was in the garden of Eden that deceived Eve.

    Ezekiel 28:13--"You has been in Eden the garden of God, every precious stone was your covering"

    Isaiah 13:12--"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning, how are you cut down to the ground , which did weak the nations"

    Notice Lucifer being cut down to the ground.
    Genesis 3:14--"And the Lord God said unto the Serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field, upon your belly shalt you go, and dust shalt you eat all the days of your life"

    Therefore the Serpent, Lucifer, shall go upon his belly upon the ground. As it was said back in Isaiah 13:12.

    Notice in Isaiah 13:12, that how Lucifer has fallen from heaven.note that another name for Lucifer is the dragon.
    Revelation 12;7-9--"And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels.
    And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceving the whole world, he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him"

    Therefore you have the names of Lucifer's. Which God gave unto him.
    The old Serpent is that old Serpent back in Genesis 3:13-14, in the garden of Eden, that deceived Eve.

    Lucifer, Satan, dragon, old Serpent, Devil, Death, lawless one, wicked one,
    son of perdition, has many names which he is called by throughout the bible, scriptures.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Haven't you ever heard the saying, reading between the lines.
    Ezekiel 28::12-15 & Isaiah 14:12-15. Revelation 12:7-9. Genesis 3:13-14.
    Or is it too hard for you to add 2+2=4.

    All those books above shows exactly that Lucifer was given many names. Which he goes by.
     
  14. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    We don't have the names "God" gave him. We have a bunch of garbled and mistranslated texts which Christianity "DECIDED" were all about the same being, and they made up verses to run with that idea.

    Lucifer - is not in Tanakh at all.

    Satan is a servant of God in Tanakh, - not an autonomous evil being. That idea was added on later.

    Genesis 3, Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 27-28 are NOT talking about Satan.

    NT is added on stuff, and makes no difference to Tanakh - when it twists or changes what Tanakh actually says..

    Any of our Jewish members can tell you these texts are NOT about Satan, and there is no Lucifer in Tanakh.

    Did you notice I posted a quote from a CHRISTIAN scholar?

    Below from --- John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    Ezekiel 28:14

    Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth,.... In allusion to the cherubim over the mercy seat, which covered it with their wings; and which, as the ark of the testimony and all the vessels of the tabernacle were anointed, were so likewise; in all probability the king of Tyre is called a "cherub" because of his wisdom and power; "anointed", because of his royal dignity; and "that covereth", because of his office, which was to protect his people; ...

    ... The Targum understands all this of regal power, and renders it, "thou art a king anointed for a kingdom:''

    *
     
  15. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Reading between the lines? That means you are making crap up.

    The people whose Tanakh this is, - can tell you that those verses are NOT about Satan, and obviously the verses themselves state whom they are about.

    That leaves you with a tacked-on Christian myth.

    *
     
  16. Repox

    Repox Truth Seeker

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    I have a different view of man. God created paradise for His pleasure about 65 million years ago. Then, Satan invaded paradise. After the fall of paradise, humans evolved. God was not pleased when the new species (humans) began to dominate earth. He wanted nature to remain unmolested. Subsequently, God intervened. On earth, humans were not God's first choice. We know the rest of the story.
     
  17. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Except that Tanakh doesn't say Satan invaded paradise.

    Tanakh also does not have an evil autonomous Satan.

    He is a servant of YHVH putting stumbling blocks before people to test them, -and if found wanting, - to play YHVH's prosecuting attorney.

    Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of YHVH, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

    Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

    Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

    *
     
  18. Jonathan Ainsley Bain

    Jonathan Ainsley Bain Logical Positivist

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    The only way to answer this question for yourself is to play God by writing a story.
    I'd like to see the narrative without an antagonist.

    After all, without Darth Vader, there would be no Princess Leia!
    The nastier the nasty, the more pure the victory.
     
  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    So what we have here, is difference of opinion. And that's all.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    All your doing is the same thing, making crap up as you go along.
    According to you the king of Tyrus was in the garden of Eden, I like to know just how you get that.
    When in fact the only ones that were in the garden of Eden was Adam and Eve and the Serpent, and God.
    So how do get the king of Tyrus as being in the garden of Eden?
     
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