Why Did God Create Man?

[jchristopher]

Don't know why God created man.
But have heard that the one who very seriously run after this question, becomes God thyself at the end, and no more question remains thereafter.

One cannot know the answer to this question unless they attain to godhood?

 

[jchristopher]

You mean when did man define god?


We evolved, and the mythology does not support any aspect of the credible science that explains our origins.

No, Man tries to defined God but in reality He defines himself and reveals it to men of faith

Secondly, you mean credible science does not support this so-called "mythology", and and I respectfully disagree with that precept. In no instance does science disprove the biblical creation narrative. We do not possess all the scientific knowledge to be had, neither do we have the whole creation account. And in case you forgot, the science has changed over the years

 

[outhouse]

So you claim to know all things?

Nope.

I just study them at levels many do not.

 

[outhouse]

In no instance does science disprove the biblical creation narrative

Sure it does.

Evolution is fact, and in no way shape or form does the biblical account go beyond mythology.

We do not possess all the scientific knowledge to be had

What? That does not even make any sense. Please try again.

neither do we have the whole creation account.

You mean creation mythology?

, the science has changed over the years

Yes and it will change and evolve forward as we learn more.

It is not stagnant like mythology, that does not change despite education and knowledge advancing.

No, Man tries to defined God

Men, in ancient times have defined deities. Its factual.

Only man put pen to paper, and defined gods.

Israelites plagiarized the Canaanite deities, and redefined multiple gods for their own needs.

Christianity redefined the god of Judaism.

Islam redefined the god yet again.

Joseph Smith redefined god yet again.

 

[jchristopher]

I'll take this as a "Yes, god dictated the conditions by which one could avoid Hell." Ergo, god is indeed a dictator.

I would argue that God is not a dictator for at least two reasons:
1) God's laws are eternal laws that he didn't just make up but that he lives by and by which He attains His godhood. He cannot live in contradiction to them or he would cease to be God.
2) By His revealing them to us, He has given us a choice, whereas without these revelations, we would have no choice. People like to use the argument that because God has given Commandments, the violation of which will result in hell, he is a dictator or has given the children of men no choice. The reality is, without the Commandments, there would only be death and hell. So really, He has provided a way, which did not exist before and which he will not force us to follow.

Excuse my redundancy

 

[outhouse]

He cannot live in contradiction to them or he would cease to be God.

So when he is said to have murdered every living animal and plant and innocent children with a flood, was that not going directly against the the commandments man wrote in the text?

By His revealing them to us

To date, that I unsubstantiated.

To date, man write all the books considered religious, and every last one, describes religion and god differently. Just as if man created it all.

 

[jchristopher]

Nope.

I just study them at levels many do not.

So there are many things you don't know?

 

[jchristopher]

Evolution is fact

No one told you? Evolution is a theory. It has never been proven. This is not disputed among experts. Although many believe it is fact, it has not been proven to be. There is what they call "missing links" to evolution. Regardless, even if evolution was proven fact, it still wouldn't prove the creation story false. It could simply mean you do not comprehend the true nature of it. There is still so very much we do not understand. For instance, the ordering power in the universe, which is still unaccounted for by science.

What? That does not even make any sense. Please try again.

Science does not account for all truth.

You mean creation mythology?

I mean the biblical creation story, we don't have a complete account of it.

Yes and it will change and evolve forward as we learn more. It is not stagnant like mythology, that does not change despite education and knowledge advancing.

Dude, the only reason science changes is because it is imperfect. Truth is absolute, complete, independent in that sphere which it has been placed. It needs not to evolve because it is all-encompassing. Mythology on the other hand is indeed stagnant.

Men, in ancient times have defined deities. Its factual.

Of course. I'm not disputing this.

Only man put pen to paper, and defined gods.

I believe God has revealed absolute truths to man at certain times in history, and by divine command, man has written them down.

Israelites plagiarized the Canaanite deities, and redefined multiple gods for their own needs.

And how do you know this to be fact?

 

[jchristopher]

So when he is said to have murdered every living animal and plant and innocent children with a flood, was that not going directly against the the commandments man wrote in the text?

You don't understand the scriptures. First of all, God did not murder. The Hebrew word for "kill" as in "thou shalt not kill" is ratsach, which essentially means thou shalt not intentionally kill without just cause. Murder is the unlawful taking of a life, and we know God cannot act unlawfully, otherwise he would cease to be God. He is the "Executer of Justice." He is the lawgiver. The wages of sin is death. The other misconception is that God has taken the life of the innocent. Nowhere in scripture is this substantiated. Compared to God's holiness, no flesh upon the earth is innocent. God would be completely justified to wipe out all flesh upon there earth. the fact that he doesn't is proof of his mercy. In his mercy, he prolongs our days upon the earth that we might work out our salvation with fear and trembling for eternal benefit of our own souls.

To date, that I unsubstantiated.

...according to the wisdom of man.

To date, man write all the books considered religious, and every last one, describes religion and god differently. Just as if man created it all.

The fact that the general masses define God differently only proves that the general masses don't properly understand the true nature of God and His teachings. It doesn't mean all accounts are fictitious or that a very small minority doesn't have it right. That's basic logic.

 

[outhouse]

No one told you? Evolution is a theory. It has never been proven.

Maybe no one told you.

A scientific theory is a set of observed facts that has never been refuted, and is open to be refuted at any time if evidence comes forth.

No one told you? science does not prove anything. That is not what science does. Science observes and reports.

Although many believe it is fact, it has not been proven to be.

Every singly credible university in the whole world teaches it as fact, because it now is fact.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution
We agree that the following evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

1. In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
2. Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
3. Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
4. Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

There is what they call "missing links" to evolution

There will always be missing links, nut we have many missing links that factually show us many parts of human origins.

it still wouldn't prove the creation story false

Nothing at all backs any mythological creation account.

Science has factually shown us, the world and people, and universe did not come into existence the way the creation mythology states it did.

It could simply mean you do not comprehend the true nature of it

You mean you don't understand the current state of science on these topics?

There is still so very much we do not understand

true.

For instance, the ordering power in the universe, which is still unaccounted for by science.

"Ordering power" is not a proper term, nature fits better. We do not have the theory of everything yet, but they are working on it.

We do not understand all of the nature of the universe yet.

I mean the biblical creation story, we don't have a complete account of it.

Why not?

Dude, the only reason science changes is because it is imperfect

Science changes as we study and learn more about the universe we live in.

And how do you know this to be fact?

Because I give lectures on this at a college.

Proto Israelites after 1200 BC, factually used

Canaanite alphabet

Canaanite pottery

Canaanite deities

Canaanite mythology

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,

 

[outhouse]

You don't understand the scriptures.

Really?

Do you mean you don't understand the text?

The Hebrew word for "kill" as in "thou shalt not kill" is ratsach, which essentially means thou shalt not intentionally kill without just cause. Murder is the unlawful taking of a life,

Wrong. Very wrong.

Strong's Hebrew: 7523. רָצַח (ratsach) -- to murder, slay

ratsach: to murder, slay



Definition

to murder, slay

NASB Translation

killed (1), kills the manslayer (1), manslayer (18), murder (7), murdered (2), murderer (12), murderer shall be put (1), murderers (1), murders (1), put to death (1), slew (1).

and we know God cannot act unlawfully, otherwise he would cease to be God.

So you magically know a definition of god and what would stop him ?

 

[outhouse]

The fact that the general masses define God differently only proves that the general masses don't properly understand the true nature of God and His teachings

Agreed. This could apply to you.

It doesn't mean all accounts are fictitious or that a very small minority doesn't have it right. That's basic logic

All the accounts of god are not fictitious, some are said to be mythology, legend and more.

But your not giving good examples of how man did not make or create or define gods, because we all know they all defined him differently.

Pick any god, and every other god is different.

When we study history we see a complete evolution of the concept and how it evolved always mirroring the different cultures that wrote and redefined the concept to meet their cultural needs.

Canaanites
Proto Israelites
Israelites
Christians
Muslims

All had different gods, and you discount them all, and claim their definitions are dead wrong, less one of those concepts.

 

[chinu]

One cannot know the answer to this question unless they attain to godhood?

You can say so..

God is like an ocean and we are like drops. And when any drop dives into the ocean to get this answer, drop itself becomes ocean. or in other words we can say.. the questioner becomes the answerer itself.

Thus.. thereafter, who remains to answer this question ?
Nobody/No-questioner.

Thereafter remains only the answerer/knower. *END*

 

[jchristopher]

A scientific theory is a set of observed facts that has never been refuted

But that "set of facts" as a whole (the theory) is not a law. And while I'm not a science guy, and don't know much about the theory of evolution, I'm confident that it doesn't contradict the creation story.

No one told you? science does not prove anything. That is not what science does. Science observes and reports.

I know. I said that. Science does not prove anything, it can only prove hypotheses false, so as to help us get nearer and nearer to the truth.

There will always be missing links, nut we have many missing links that factually show us many parts of human origins.

Yes, but it is missing a pretty crucial missing link. There was a certain point when man was given his agency and began to make moral decisions.

Nothing at all backs any mythological creation account.

You're still operating on the assumption that the creation story is a myth. You do not know that, nor do you or anyone else fully understand it, although some understand it much better than others.

"Ordering power" is not a proper term, nature fits better. We do not have the theory of everything yet, but they are working on it. We do not understand all of the nature of the universe yet.

Exactly my point. It is imperfect, evolving. We don't understand it, which is exactly why we can't discount what we don't know. Just because it hasn't been "proven" by our imperfect system of understanding, doesn't mean it does not exist.

"Ordering power", "nature", whatever you want to call it. But this ordering or regenerative power is that exists in time and space is a pretty big part of the puzzle to ignore. Just as I've said previously, in this world, there is opposition in all things, so is this ordering power in opposition to entropy and is the reason for our continued existence. It is a power who's source science has not shed much light on. Our very existence is extremely improbable, by science's own definition, and it is ridiculous to think that there isn't an intelligent power, more intelligent than us, that is directing it all.

Why not?

I don't know. I suppose because we are to live faith, as well as scientific study.

Science changes as we study and learn more about the universe we live in.

Yeah, because "science" is our imperfect understanding of the earth and universe. It changes because it is imperfect. Think about what I am saying for a minute

 

[jchristopher]

So you magically know a definition of god and what would stop him ?

Yes, I know many of God's characteristics because they have been revealed. Man cannot know God unless it is revealed to him. Any yes, if God contradicted himself, he would not be God.

 

[jchristopher]

Agreed. This could apply to you.

You're right, it's possible that my understanding could be incorrect. It's also possible that certain truths have been revealed to me, in which then my understand would be correct.

All the accounts of god are not fictitious, some are said to be mythology, legend and more.

I won't argue with that.

But your not giving good examples of how man did not make or create or define gods, because we all know they all defined him differently.[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing, the times where man "did not make or create or define gods" is when he received divine revelation, or was taught by someone who did, of the true nature and purposes of God. It is only through prophecy that the things of God are revealed to man. So, when man relies on anything other than revealed truth, his understanding will be different from reality. I believe in absolute and universal truth that applies for all mankind irrespective of age, race, culture, or custom. How could God be anything but absolute and universal? If he wasn't, mankind could not have faith in him.

 

[outhouse]

But that "set of facts" as a whole (the theory) is not a law

It does not have to be law.

No matter how much evidence or proof, it cannot become law. It is already at its highest position it can be..

You just do not understand how science works, or how science is defined.

 

[outhouse]

but it is missing a pretty crucial missing link.

There is no crucial missing link for human evolution. You just do not understand the biology here.

You're still operating on the assumption that the creation story is a myth. You do not know that,

Yes I do know that.

The mythology in all religious books factually did not take place as written.

 

[outhouse]

is when he received divine revelation, or was taught by someone who did, of the true nature and purposes of God.

And you may not understand cultural or physical anthropology of this time period. So you may not have a clue how these people thought, what they believed in, and why they believed what they did.


Back then they had no idea of conscious thought, positive thoughts and imagination were deemed divine revelation.

Mortal men were called "son of god" and worshipped as divine. You just may not have studied this history in detail, and may not understand how each book was compiled from pre existing traditions, and redacted over centuries in many cases. Each on there own case by base basis.


When we follow how Israelites compiled two deities into the one god you think you know, we see only mans handprint in the text.

 

[outhouse]

How could God be anything but absolute and universal?

Why don't you take a class and study the concept and find out for yourself.

It would be great if you could debate this from a position of knowledge of the actual history that surrounded the constant definition changes of something you have a passion for.