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Featured Who will get to heaven?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Gerry, May 23, 2019.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    And nobody ever will see one, because the resurrection was never physical. Physical bodies once dead remain dead. They do not rise from graves.

    I do not interpret the Bible verses that refer to graves and resurrection as being physical graves or physical resurrection of bodies. By graves I believe is meant that when the Christ Spirit returns and some people will come forth from their graves and hear his voice, graves denoting awakening and hearkening to the call of God. Thus I believe that grave symbolizes being spiritually dead. Those that turn away from the Christ Spirit when He returns will not be resurrected; they will remain in their graves, spiritually dead. Others will be resurrected and arise from their graves and hasten to the divine presence.

    John 11: 23-24 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    I do not interpret these verses literally. I believe that dead means spiritually dead and resurrection means spiritually resurrected. Thus I believe it means that when Christ returns (at the last day) those that turn towards Him will be spiritually resurrected; they will arise from their graves (from being spiritually dead) and hasten to the divine presence. Those who turn away from Christ will not be resurrected; they will remain in their graves, spiritually dead. The Day of God’s Revelation is the Day of the greatest Resurrection..

    But the important verses in that chapter are as follows:

    John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Jesus is the resurrection, and the life, because whoever believes in Jesus will attain to everlasting life. His body will die, but his soul will continue on to the spiritual world (heaven) where he will be close to God. The rewards of the spiritual world are peace, the spiritual graces, various spiritual gifts, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and getting closer to God. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life.

    Christ said, John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. He meant that those who believed in Him would be “Born Again” and enter the kingdom of God on earth and in heaven, since we can be close to God both here and there.

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord....

    I do not interpret these verses literally. By asleep is meant spiritually asleep, spiritually dead, those who have no hope. God will bring those who are spiritually dead, at least some of them who hearken to His call. A cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God will be raised when the Christ Spirit returns and some people will come forth from their spiritual sleep and hear his voice, awakening and hearkening to the call of God. The dead in Christ in their graves symbolizes being spiritually dead. The verses of God will be revealed and those that turn away from them will not be resurrected; they will remain in their graves, spiritually dead. Others will be resurrected and arise from their graves and hasten to the divine presence.

    Then we who are alive, who are left, means spiritually alive, and they will be caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, means those people will be caught up and always be with the Lord in heaven... This is symbolic; it is not about literal clouds and literal air.
     
    #421 Trailblazer, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    But we will not find the physical body of Jesus in heaven because physical bodies do not exist in heaven, since heaven is a purely spiritual world, so there is no oxygen in heaven.

    The Spirit of Jesus ascended to heaven and His Spirit is in heaven with God.
    Jesus has a spiritual body, not a physical body, in heaven.
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find after a person dies they have the chance or opportunity to be resurrected.
    Some have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6
    The majority (John 3:13) have a future earthly resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
    I find we are taught to pray for God's kingdom to come ( thy kingdom come )
    We do Not pray ' take me away ' to the kingdom, nor pray ' take me up ' to the kingdom.
    Who is king of God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 for a thousand years but Christ Jesus - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
    Jesus has co-rulers who govern with Jesus often referred to as saints or holy ones - Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-30
    Thus, they govern from Heaven over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
    Those who died before Jesus can be resurrected on Earth by heavenly Jesus to be earthly subjects or citizens.
    The figurative ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 can remain alive on Earth under Christ's millennial reign over Earth.
    Whereas, the spiritual ' brothers ' of Matthew 25:40 will be resurrected to reign with Christ in Heaven.
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find ALL of the resurrections that Jesus preformed were only physical resurrections.
    The resurrections performed in the old Hebrew Scriptures were only physical resurrections.
    Jesus' friend of John 11:11-14 did Not remain dead but he had a physical resurrection.
    Jesus was giving us a small preview or a coming attraction about the physical resurrection at the last day.
    That ' last day ' is Jesus' coming 'millennium-long day' of governing over Earth for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
    So, Not only will those who died before Jesus died have a physical earthly resurrection, and those Not called to heaven, but called to be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5.
    This is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be' a resurrection....
    So, after a person is resurrected back to physical life on Earth whosoever liveth and believeth in Jesus shall never die.
    They won't die that ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8, but will gain eternal life on Earth as originally offered to Adam.
     
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  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Before God sent per-human Jesus to Earth, Jesus had a spirit body. Right, No physical body.
    After his God resurrected Jesus, then Jesus was resurrected in his previous ' spirit ' body.
    Other than Jesus, from Adam to us we only have physical bodies.
    Those people like those of Luke 22:28-30 will Not be resurrected with a physical body.
    Like Jesus they will have a ' spirit ' body as per chapter 15 of 1st Corinthians.
    'Flesh and blood...' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom..... (verse 50)
    However, the people who died before Jesus (John 3:13) are Not called to Heaven, so they can have a future physical resurrection right back here on Earth.
    Remember: David did Not ascend so David is still in the grave and so is John the Baptist - Matthew 11:11; Acts 2:34.
    Only those called to be holy ones (saints) of Daniel 7:18 will have a spirit-body resurrection like Jesus.
    In other words, the Bible speaks of two (2) types of resurrections:
    A smaller 'flock' resurrected to heavenly spirit life. - Luke 12:32
    The majority resurrected to earthly physical life . - John 10:16
     
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  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Well, I must admit I never heard of Adam and Eve being ' stuck ' on Earth.
    Earth was never meant to be a stepping stone to somewhere else.
    If Adam and Eve had Not sinned they would still be here on a beautiful paradisical Earth. That to me is Not stuck.
    I like it hear. I want to stay here. If you feel as I do then you are Not called to Heavenly life.
    Heaven is offered to people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 2:10; Daniel 7:18,22,27.
    They are a smaller group or number of people - Luke 12:32
    Flesh and blood ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50.
    So, they will have a 'spirit ' resurrection and be a 'spirit ' person as Jesus is. - Philippians 3:10-11; Romans 8:17
    They have two (2) heavenly jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10
    * They will serve mankind as being a king. Meaning taking care of governmental duties towards those on Earth.
    * They will serve mankind as being a priest. Meaning taking care of spiritual responsibilities toward those on Earth.
     
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  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    I find ALL of the resurrections that Jesus preformed were spiritual resurrections.
    I do not believe that physical bodies, once dead, ever come back to life again.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you have it all figured out for yourself. But so do all Christians.

    The problem I see is that Christians attribute different meanings to the same verses, so that means some Christians have to be wrong in order for others to be right, logically speaking.

    So as I see it it is all a matter of what you want the verses to mean in order to believe what supports your particular beliefs. So Christians will all be believing that their afterlife version is correct, but some of them will be very surprised when it does not come down as they hoped.
     
  9. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Actually Jesus said he is coming back to earth. Nothing about anyone joining him in heaven.
     
  10. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Why would they have to rule from heaven. It makes more sense that they would be in the kingdom. Which will be on earth.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Where did Jesus ever say that he was coming back to Earth? I cannot find any verses that say that. All I find are verses where Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. Jesus was not planning to come back.

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
     
  12. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    There is a way to tell which Christians don't have an accurate understanding of scripture: those organizations that are willing to support their respective countries during conflicts, and kill other Christians from the opposing country. They certainly won't have God's spirit and blessing.... therefore, their beliefs should be suspect, too. IMO

    John 13:34-35; 1 John 3:10-15
     
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  13. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    The blessing of the Biblical god would be like having the blessing of Hitler, it is so evil if it exists and the deeds attributed to it are true.
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    The second if is a big if. :rolleyes:
     
  15. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, hopefully it is just the story book character I think it is.
     
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  16. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Does NOT say anyone is going to heaven except Jesus.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    No, those verses do not say that.
    Do you want some other verses that say that?
    Here is one such verse:

    John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

    Read more: Bible Verses About Heaven: 15 Scripture Quotes
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    God is not a story book character, God is real.
    But hopefully the OT is not a true story about God. :rolleyes:
     
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    You have to keep reading. John 14:3 says that Jesus is coming back and recieve us unto himself. And where will he be when he comes back? On EARTH. It does not say anyone is going to heaven. Sorry but please try again.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    John 14

    2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


    John 14:2 Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for those who would be going to heaven.

    John 14:3 "I will come again" does not refer to Jesus coming back to Earth again. We know that because Jesus said:

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


    "I will come again" refers to the Second Coming of Christ, the return of the Christ Spirit with a new name.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
     
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