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Featured Who wants to talk about Satan?!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Orias, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    Since I Can't post in the DIR I'll make a thread here. It's been a few years actually, I'm certain to meet many new people and I hope to encounter many of my old friends here.

    The literal translations of "Satan" mean "opposition" or "adversary". By this definition, any and all "God(s)" are essentially a Satan to the will of nature and the universe as we know it, based in entropy and self preservation. And so, I conjure that not only is every God Satan, but Satan is the universe itself, as conflict is inherit in the ways of all the cosmos. It is the trial of existence, this is Satan. So in essence we live in Satan's kingdom, a realm of opposition.

    I believe in many ways certain aspects of the Bible imply this, especially if you think of mystery Babylon and the tower Babel. I will also include the book of Enoch into this and Septuagint, although some verses in KJV are the same, like Mark 7:6-7. There are plenty of examples, like in the story of Job, where the will of God and of Satan are the same, only God is holding the reigns of his will "Satan". Jesus is even quoted as threatening to become (a) "Satan" and advising others not the be a "Satan" towards him.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    If the doctrine of man are interchangeable with Satan. We see from this we are actually the spawn of Satan, through the mingling of our ancestors with the fallen angels. Is this is also not part of ancestral sin?
     
  3. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Like God, Satan is a man-made invention
     
  4. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    In what regard is Satan a man made invention? Or is it perhaps instead an observation?
     
  5. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    Does man invent? Or does he discover what already is? It's important to distinguish the difference.
     
  6. Jumi

    Jumi Secular monotheist

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    Satan is a scapegoat for people who don't want to take responsibility. Others just use it as an excuse to do what they would do anyway even if they didn't believe in such mythical being.
     
  7. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Well, there is a guy who responds to Satan if you dare to try to reach him. I guess if all you have is books to tell you whether something exists you are left struggling with the impossibilities before your eyes. If you earnestly seek it, you probably will find it... After all, some of those ancient mystics probably knew something... At least before the priest castes all became politicians and interested in keeping everyone dumb.

    Anyway, there are still ways existent in the modern world to explore these realms of consciousness and they work for anyone whom applies themselves to that goal. Do that, or admit you simply do not know. Either way is fine, but denial is the road to delusion regardless of what authority it comes from. :D
     
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  8. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God.

    I do buy into the hypothesis that god(s) were invented by town elders and leaders to explain the unknown. So in old times they had a sun god, a god who controlled thunder, the sea, etc. These were inventions to fill gaps in knowledge.
    Fast forward to modern religions and we have the same 'god of the gaps' but modified with stories embellished to control the flock. The threat of Satan helped priests control their congregations when people started questioning the stories of the gods.
     
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  9. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Good luck, at least you are the good guy in The Bible with a lot less deaths than the evil God.
     
  10. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    The difference is...

    Religion invents.
    Science discovers and explains what already is.
     
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  11. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I can see that perspective as well, from mine God wants slaves. Though I don't feel the divine exists in enmity like Christians would. The essence of the bible is basically : you are ****ty but if you kiss my *** I'll let you live forever as my pet. Religious Satanism is more like - Satan is a muse, inspiration, and an intellectual force the very Promethean fire that made us something different than the rest of the apes. Satan's motive of course is to remove the blindfold and allow you to know you too are of the gods. There is no greater evil in my view than obscuring that fact, but of course there is a danger of arrogance in such a preposition. One must understand that their godliness is no less than the best, but also no more than the others.
     
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  12. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Anyone with a weak sense of personal responsibility isn't a Satanist of any sort. Let's play a game, let's say I wave a wand and now you are a god. Is every decision you make important? Hmm, well that's how a real Satanist sees it in my view. There are no easy decisions or irrelevant ones.

    Christian's find it easier to blame the devil than themselves even though we could make all sorts of constructive arguments for why spiritual being of that sort would probably have better things to do. :D
     
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  13. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    Satan is a scapegoat, we can end it there and I agree. The rest I'm not sure about.
     
  14. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    Considering that the Gospel of John has Jesus saying that Moses did not get his knowledge from heaven, I don't even acknowledge the OT, making me unorthodox Christian. The Gospel says that Christ spoke the truth (from heaven). Satan is an ideology of the god the Jews wound up following (John 8). Peter wan't Satan, Peter spoke that ideology when Jesus used the description.

    It is the Demiurge that causes imperfection of thought, and that Jesus confronted. Jesus taught of the perfect Father through the perfect Spirit (capital S) that was within him. This is what makes any man/woman a "son of God/Father"

    John 1:
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    It is the Spirit that reveals, and the Jews never had it, as it was given by Jesus as Christ (chrism of the Spirit) when he arose (glorified).

    John 7:39:
    (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    Jesus said to teach the Gospel (of the Spirit) not the Bible the catholics created. These men murdered Christians calling them heretics (of the catholic church), just as their Jewish fathers did before them. It's hard to see and accept, unless you "seek it" as Christ taught.

    Gospel of Thomas;
    Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

    It's natural to feel troubled about what I have said, but the person who overcomes the troubled part, is rewarded with true spiritual knowledge, IMO of course.
     
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  15. KT Shamim

    KT Shamim Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

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    Assuming you are saying Satan is darkness ... surely it's existence is non-existence.

    There is no source of darkness ... but there is a source of light.
    There is no source of cold ... but there is a source of heat.
     
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  16. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    I said what Satan is. Opposition. As translated in Arabic (Shaitan) and Hebrew (Ha-Satan), adversary, opposition, later on in Abrahamism a demon or spiritual entity (jinn).

    But if ther is no source of cold, or darkness, then it was not created and had always been...yes?
     
  17. KT Shamim

    KT Shamim Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

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    So kingdom does not belong to the opposition.
    Republicans and Conservatives rule USA and UK. Not the opposition.

    And darkness only exists once light exists. Concept of darkness is non-existent without light.
    No sadness without happiness ... etc. etc.
     
  18. Orias

    Orias Left Hand Path

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    Kingdom does in many ways belong to Opposition. Not sure what your political reference has to do with the subject but if we apply it, conservatives are the opposition to the democrat's and if they rule the USA and the UK then they are the kingdom belonging to the opposition.

    In some ways yes, in other ways no. Darkness exists without light, it has no creator. Although, darkness is light, as it does contain biophotons. Light becomes extinguished, dark does not
     
  19. Jumi

    Jumi Secular monotheist

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    Sounds over simplistic.

    Overgeneralization.
     
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  20. Jumi

    Jumi Secular monotheist

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    Isn't that just an aesthetic description of the regular free will with no outsider controlling us?

    Some religions blame a devil for anything wrong. Not saying those folks are satanists, I think of them as duotheists who worship one and fear the other, or both.
     
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