Who wants to live forever? Kushner does

[Trailblazer]

It doesn't? Kind of says that's the caveat there. "If you eat from this, you will surely d.i.e." Genesis 2. They ate from it, remember? And God said, in essence after they did what God told them not to die, now you will die. They didn't HAVE to die if they obeyed God, respected and loved Him, and the implication is clear.

I do not believe that the implication is there. I believe that Christians read into these verses.

Eve was deceived, but God did not back down on his decree. (Genesis 2:16 - "And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” Does that mean he died the day he ate from the tree?

I believe that meant Adam and Eve would die spiritually, not physically, although eventually they died physically just like everyone will.

Death Was Spiritual

Some interpreters contend that Adam and Eve did die when they ate the forbidden fruit, but their death was spiritual, not physical. The main idea behind death is separation. The death that Adam and Eve experienced when they ate the forbidden fruit was immediate separation from God.

Physical Death

They also experienced physical death for their disobedient act. Though it was not immediate, it still was a result from their disobedience of God. The Lord promised:

In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of dust you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:19).

Did Adam and Eve Die When They Ate the Forbidden Fruit?

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not believe that the implication is there. I believe that Christians read into these verses.

Clearly God said to Adam if he ate from that tree he would die.

 

[Trailblazer]

Clearly God said to Adam if he ate from that tree he would die.

Yes He did.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of dust you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:19).

But God did not say if he did not at from the tree he would live forever.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes He did.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of dust you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:19).

But God did not say if he did not at from the tree he would live forever.

Not outright, that's true.
God said they came out of dust and would go back to dust. Nothing about a spiritual afterlife. After they sinned though, He made sure they were taken out of the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was and prevented them from getting to it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not outright, that's true.
God said they came out of dust and would go back to dust. Nothing about a spiritual afterlife. After they sinned though, He made sure they were taken out of the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was and prevented them from getting to it.

God made sure they were taken out of the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was and prevented them from getting to it because the tree of life bestows eternal spiritual life, and they relinquished eternal spiritual life when they ate from the tree of good and evil.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Baha'is do not believe that the Tree of Life was an actual tree that grew out of the ground, not in Genesis and not in Revelation 22:2. We believe that the Tree of Life represents the Word of God which bestows eternal life, which is not physical life but rather spiritual life.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124

From: 30: ADAM AND EVE

 

[YoursTrue]

God made sure they were taken out of the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was and prevented them from getting to it because the tree of life bestows eternal spiritual life, and they relinquished eternal spiritual life when they ate from the tree of good and evil.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Baha'is do not believe that the Tree of Life was an actual tree that grew out of the ground, not in Genesis and not in Revelation 22:2. We believe that the Tree of Life represents the Word of God which bestows eternal life, which is not physical life but rather spiritual life.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124

From: 30: ADAM AND EVE

In the biblical account, it appears that the situation (eating the fruit) was actual. And considering they were expelled from the Garden, couldn't go back. Adam came from the ground, he went back to the ground. No promise of extended life in any form was given to him.

 

[YoursTrue]

God made sure they were taken out of the Garden of Eden where the tree of life was and prevented them from getting to it because the tree of life bestows eternal spiritual life, and they relinquished eternal spiritual life when they ate from the tree of good and evil.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Baha'is do not believe that the Tree of Life was an actual tree that grew out of the ground, not in Genesis and not in Revelation 22:2. We believe that the Tree of Life represents the Word of God which bestows eternal life, which is not physical life but rather spiritual life.

It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)

“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124

From: 30: ADAM AND EVE

Revelation is symbolic to a good extent (the tent of God coming down from heaven) but the Genesis account of creation and obedience is not. Meantime, Adam and Eve lived much longer than we do.

 

[Viker]

No one will live forever. Death always finds a way. You can only cheat it for so long. And why so long?

I'll enjoy life while I can, the best that I can.

 

[Trailblazer]

Revelation is symbolic to a good extent (the tent of God coming down from heaven) but the Genesis account of creation and obedience is not.

I believe they are both symbolic in the sense they these events did not and will not literally take place.
The Genesis account is a story that reminds us to be obedient to God.

 

[Trailblazer]

In the biblical account, it appears that the situation (eating the fruit) was actual.

All fictional stories are written to sound actual. If it did not sound real who would read it?

And considering they were expelled from the Garden, couldn't go back. Adam came from the ground, he went back to the ground. No promise of extended life in any form was given to him.

I do not believe tat Adam came from the ground but his body went into the ground, as do all physical bodies.

 

[YoursTrue]

All fictional stories are written to sound actual. If it did not sound real who would read it?

I do not believe tat Adam came from the ground but his body went into the ground, as do all physical bodies.

well then we believe differently.

 

[YoursTrue]

All fictional stories are written to sound actual. If it did not sound real who would read it?

I do not believe tat Adam came from the ground but his body went into the ground, as do all physical bodies.

Didn't your mentor, the leader of Bahai, speak of the Bible? Did he say it was fictional? You know like getting messages and things like that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Didn't your mentor, the leader of Bahai, speak of the Bible? Did he say it was fictional? You know like getting messages and things like that.

No, Baha'u'llah did not say that the Bible is fictional. He said it is God's Holy Book, God's most great testimony amongst His creatures. Below is what He wrote, addressing some Muslims who claimed that the Bible had been corrupted:

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the day-star of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muḥammadan Dispensation? What law could be their stay and guide? How could such people be made the victims of the avenging wrath of God, the omnipotent Avenger? How could they be afflicted with the scourge of chastisement by the heavenly King? Above all, how could the flow of the grace of the All-Bountiful be stayed? How could the ocean of His tender mercies be stilled? We take refuge with God, from that which His creatures have fancied about Him! Exalted is He above their comprehension!”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 89-90

However, there is no reason to believe that all of the Bible is literally true, some of it is metaphorical, a way to convey important spiritual truths.

Regarding the story of Adam and Eve, this chapter explains the spiritual significance of the story according to the Baha'i Faith. Below are some excerpts from that chapter.

“The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 123-124

“For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 124-125

You can read the entire chapter here:

30: ADAM AND EVE

 

[YoursTrue]

No, Baha'u'llah did not say that the Bible is fictional. He said it is God's Holy Book, God's most great testimony amongst His creatures. Below is what He wrote, addressing some Muslims who claimed that the Bible had been corrupted:

“We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the day-star of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muḥammadan Dispensation? What law could be their stay and guide? How could such people be made the victims of the avenging wrath of God, the omnipotent Avenger? How could they be afflicted with the scourge of chastisement by the heavenly King? Above all, how could the flow of the grace of the All-Bountiful be stayed? How could the ocean of His tender mercies be stilled? We take refuge with God, from that which His creatures have fancied about Him! Exalted is He above their comprehension!”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 89-90

However, there is no reason to believe that all of the Bible is literally true, some of it is metaphorical, a way to convey important spiritual truths.

Regarding the story of Adam and Eve, this chapter explains the spiritual significance of the story according to the Baha'i Faith. Below are some excerpts from that chapter.

“The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 123-124

“For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 124-125

You can read the entire chapter here:

30: ADAM AND EVE

The Bible certainly does have symbolic elements in it. I think your mentor has it wrong about spirit and soul. It happens.