Who Or What Is Israel?

[Kenny]

I Am in Total Agreement with Everything in the Holy Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

Generally speaking, as I read what you are trying to say, good!

John 16:33

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I agree with tis scripture but how does it apply to what I said? "You can be a Christian and be carnal, fleshly, immature and judgmental.” unless what you are saying is that we should overcome them. If so, I agree compeltely.

That's a Lie. There is no such thing as a Carnal Christian. A Christian is a Follower of Messiah/Christ. Those that Follow Messiah/Christ are Not Carnal. A Christian is an Overcomer of the Carnal Nature. The Overcoming Christian is Israel. I speak from a Christian Gnostic perspective.

I thought you agreed with Genesis to Revelation:

1 Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ...

He was speaking to Christians

Isaiah 55:8-9

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Luke 16:15

15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


I Am Glad that Everything Must be Judged by Elohim's/God's Incomparable and Highly Exalted Standard.

James 3:
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Hebrews 7:11

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


The Levitical Priesthood is for the Earthly Ministry where the people receive Law. The Melchisedec Priesthood is the Spiritual Ministry.

Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

 

[Balthazzar]

Generally speaking, as I read what you are trying to say, good!




I agree with tis scripture but how does it apply to what I said? "You can be a Christian and be carnal, fleshly, immature and judgmental.” unless what you are saying is that we should overcome them. If so, I agree compeltely.




I thought you agreed with Genesis to Revelation:

1 Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ...

He was speaking to Christians


James 3:
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.



Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Is being carnal necessarily a bad thing? So yeah ... we're made of flesh, we feel passion, temptation, sorrow, pleasure, pain, and we are temporal. The spirit comes after, but also before while we live in our flesh suits. It's just the nature of the game or experience called life. Living through the spirit helps us decrease some of the lesser desired experiences, but does this make them immoral? We don't typically like some of them, which makes us view them as bad, but are they immoral evils? Pain, sorrow, temptations, lust, etc all seem dissatisfying, but are they inherently bad? To think too highly of ourselves may suggest that we view ourselves to be better than others when we start living through the spirit more than they. Whoever said the life God gave us is bad anyway? It's difficult sometimes, but it's also very good best I remember.

What's right for me may not be right for others, so my moral compass guides me and other peoples moral compass guides them. I prefer monogamous relationships; other people seem to prefer multiple partners and some people prefer multiple partners in the same bed together. The moral sense of what's right for them is different than my own sense of what's right for me. It's a personal thing and unique to each person as a person, subjectively true no matter the preferences. I aim for satisfaction. Some behavior is pleasurable but not satisfying.

 

[2ndpillar]

I prefer avoiding WW3, even if it's non-nuclear.

It appears that you are walking into it, with no preparations made. Is your Mahdi going to save you? If so Muslim tradition says that Isa is to come back and help him, and if Isa is a prophet as the Koran says, then Muhammad would not be the last prophet, as your Hadiths say.

 

[2ndpillar]

Are you claiming that Jews are superior to others?

I am claiming that as with Isaac Newton, in general, Israel has pondered Scripture, and therefore have a step up, as is indicated by their achievements. As for humanistic atheist, they seem to outperform in the realm of suicide for good reason. In the end, Israel will be the chosen people because of their name, and not for the accomplishments (Ezekiel 36:22).

 

[2ndpillar]

What's right for me may not be right for others, so my moral compass guides me and other peoples moral compass guides them. I prefer monogamous relationships; other people seem to prefer multiple partners and some people prefer multiple partners in the same bed together. The moral sense of what's right for them is different than my own sense of what's right for me. It's a personal thing and unique to each person as a person, subjectively true no matter the preferences. I aim for satisfaction. Some behavior is pleasurable but not satisfying.

Your subjective standards can lead to having sex with children or swine with no second thoughts, or in the case of the "woke", sleeping with anything that you can pin down, including a 2x4 with a knot hole. That might be fine with you, but the physician will have to remove the splinters, and that is probably not good for him.

 

[Revoltingest]

It appears that you are walking into it, with no preparations made.

I've prepared as much as I think appropriate
at this stage. If things escalate & become
more compelling, I've further plans.

Is your Mahdi going to save you?

I don't have one of those.

If so Muslim tradition says that Isa is to come back and help him, and if Isa is a prophet as the Koran says, then Muhammad would not be the last prophet, as your Hadiths say.

The only thing comparable to a Hadith in
Revoltifarianism is....
"Stuff happens"
The above is paraphrased to comport with RF rules.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am claiming that as with Isaac Newton, in general, Israel has pondered Scripture, and therefore have a step up, as is indicated by their achievements.

Israel is certainly skilled at manipulating US
government & populace into giving it money
& materiel to oppress & exterminate Muslims.

As for humanistic atheist, they seem to outperform in the realm of suicide for good reason.

No evidence to present?
Christians excel at committing felonies.

Religious affiliation of inmates in U.S. prisons, 2011 | Statista

This statistic shows U.S.

www.statista.com

In the end, Israel will be the chosen people because of their name, and not for the accomplishments (Ezekiel 36:22).

If their god exists & has decent moral values,
many will writhe in eternal punishment for
their deadly vengeance against innocents.
And what if Allah turns out to be their god?
Interesting times might lie ahead for them.

 

[Balthazzar]

Your subjective standards can lead to having sex with children or swine with no second thoughts, or in the case of the "woke", sleeping with anything that you can pin down, including a 2x4 with a knot hole. That might be fine with you, but the physician will have to remove the splinters, and that is probably not good for him.

Splinters sound great ... you think? I guess maybe the scent of a swine pen might be alluring to some. I would prefer bacon on toast. As for sex with children ... A person could get shot in the leg and wound cleaned out with a Q tip swab and isopropyl. This seems more appropriate than what you claim to be a subjective standard. Every physician I know carries isopropyl in their kit. I would be happy to provide the Q tips. We wouldn't want one getting stuck inside the leg.

If ever you need a friend
if ever you need a physician
Q tips I'll keep for you
and some isopropyl too.

We don't want you to go away
in fact we prefer you stay
infections can be dangerous
and we'll keep your new wound clean......

tend to you each and every day
i could buy a case or two
of q tips and isopropyl
for you

Standing by your side
one year maybe two
and when the wound has healed
we'll be sure that it is sealed

Fire although it burns
will seal the new healed wounds
we won't let you
go away to get infected again

we need you to stay
and when we're done
you can walk again

ok, ok .. maybe this is a little much but if you would do it to them any of them, you would do it to the rest of us. Lets hope we won't need q tips to make a point of the effectiveness of isopropyl.

All joking aside. You offended me with your post.

Have a nice day.

 

[2ndpillar]

f their god exists & has decent moral values,
many will writhe in eternal punishment for
their deadly vengeance against innocents.
And what if Allah turns out to be their god?
Interesting times might lie ahead for them.

You have a strange sense of who is innocent. The Gazans are now claiming they are victims of Hamas. Apparently, they need someone to save them, yet Egypt, Lebanon, nor Jordan want anything to do with them. Egypt is now building a bigger fence to keep them out of Egypt.

 

[Revoltingest]

You have a strange sense of who is innocent.

Non-combatants, especially children.
I judge people differently. To merely
be Palestinian doesn't mean guilt.

The Gazans are now claiming they are victims of Hamas. Apparently, they need someone to save them, yet Egypt, Lebanon, nor Jordan want anything to do with them. Egypt is now building a bigger fence to keep them out of Egypt.

Shortcomings of Muslim countries does
not justify Israel's genocide of Palestinians.

 

[2ndpillar]

Shortcomings of Muslim countries does
not justify Israel's genocide of Palestinians.

The placing of Hamas headquarters in hospitals and schools seems like a war crime, whereas Hamas would be liable for any deaths. As for fatalities, do you notice they don't say how many of the dead are Hamas soldiers. Israel gives notice of any bombings, whereas Hamas does not let the Gazans leave, resulting in casualties, which would be on Hamas. You kind of use the term "genocide" loosely, when the Hamas leaders have said they will kill all of the Jews, which kind of seems like genocide.

 

[Revoltingest]

The placing of Hamas headquarters in hospitals and schools....

This wouldn't justify genocide.

 

[2ndpillar]

This wouldn't justify genocide.

The only ones putting children in danger, by using them as shields, are Hamas. As for Progressives, they have killed around 60 million US children since the 70s under color of mercy. That might be considered genocide, since the majority of abortions are on black women, which was the root cause in the creation of the abortion industry's (planned parenthood) initial leader.

Over 63 million abortions have occurred in the US since Roe v. Wade decision in 1973

More than 63 million abortions are estimated to have taken place in the U.S. since the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling, according to one analysis.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Revoltingest]

The only ones putting children in danger, by using them as shields, are Hamas.

Hamas only exists in response of 70+
years of brutal Israeli apartheid.
But even so, Israel chooses to primarily
use dumb bombs to take out groups
of people & buildings, instead of
soldiers to target the enemy. Why?
Israel openly plans to send the
surviving Palestinians to Africa,
& take Gaza for Israeli settlers.

 

[2ndpillar]

Hamas only exists in response of 70+
years of brutal Israeli apartheid.
But even so, Israel chooses to primarily
use dumb bombs to take out groups
of people & buildings, instead of
soldiers to target the enemy. Why?
Israel openly plans to send the
surviving Palestinians to Africa,
& take Gaza for Israeli settlers.

Israel took all Jews out of Gaza and turned Gaza over to the Gazans in around the year 2006. No one in Africa would take the Gazans, including Egypt. As for dumb bombs, Hamas used dumb missiles, of which many just fell back into Gaza. The Israeli artillery and bombs do not land willy nilly. They are targeted weapons, which strike pretty near where they are targeted. Israel uses precision weapons to shoot down the Hamas missiles targeted at Jewish civilian target, for which shooting intentionally at civilians is what is known as terrorism.

 

[Elihoenai]

In my experience, extremely intelligent people tend to do well in most subjects. Just because a person is good at science doesn't mean they aren't also good with literature.

Genius or Extreme Intelligence doesn't help in any way to Understand the Holy Scriptures. It only helps with reading the Holy Scriptures as any other Academic book Without the Understanding. Albert Einstein is a prime example:



Einstein's "God Letter" - An English translation

My translation:

Princeton, 3 January 1954

Dear Mr. Gutkind!
Inspired by Brouwer's repeated suggestion, I have been reading a great deal in your book in the last few days, and I thank you for sending it to me. What particularly struck me was this. With regard to our actual attitude to life and to human society we are broadly similar: an ideal beyond the personal that strives for freedom from self-centred desires, strives to make existence more beautiful and enriched, with an emphasis on the purely humane, where inanimate things are only seen as a means to which no dominant role should be granted. (It is this attitude in particular that unites us as a truly "un-American attitude")
Still, had it not been for Brouwer's encouragement, I would never have brought myself to delve into your book in any way, as it is written in a language that is inaccessible to me. For me, the word God is nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable but still exceedingly primitive legends. No interpretation, however subtle, could change that (for me). These rarefied interpretations are by their nature extremely manifold and are in almost no way related to the original text. For me, the unadulterated Jewish religion, like all other religions, is an incarnation of primitive superstition. And the Jewish people, to whom I gladly belong and whose mentality I am deeply embedded in, for me, possess no dignity distinct from all other peoples'. In my experience, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst excesses by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot discern anything "chosen" about them.
In general, I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a human being and an internal one as a Jew. As a human, you claim to a certain extent a dispensation from otherwise accepted causality, as a Jew a privilege for monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza was the first to incisively recognise. And the animistic conception of nature religions is, as a matter of principle, not nullified by monopolisation. Such walls will only lead us to certain self-deceit; but our moral efforts are not advanced by them. Rather the contrary.
Now that I have quite openly expressed our differences in intellectual considerations, it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in what is essential, i.e. in our evaluations of human conduct. What separates us is only intellectual embellishment or "rationalisation" in Freudian language. Therefore, I think we would get along quite well when discussing concrete matters.
With kind thanks and best wishes,
Yours, A. Einstein



Although Albert Einstein had No Understanding of the Holy Scriptures, it's certainly true that those claiming to be Chosen Israel don't look any different from Gentiles.

 

[Elihoenai]

Substance and evidence strengthen faith (confidence). Do you think they will ever be able to treat or cure cancer? That's the hope and they are making great efforts for that cause. They are confident that one day cancer will be less of a threat to those who develop it, due to the ongoing efforts to treat it effectively.

Galatians 3:23

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Deuteronomy 7:15

15 And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.


Before Faith Comes you walk Blindly in Expectation/Hope of receiving the promise.

You are fighting on the Wrong Side. Elohim/God Smites Evildoers with Cancer because of their Rebellion Against Elohim/God. Cancer is Just Deserts Punishment for Sin. The Cure for Cancer is Freely Available. The Cure for Cancer is Total Obedience/Devotion to Elohim/God.

 

[Elihoenai]

Generally speaking, as I read what you are trying to say, good!

What do you think I'm saying?

I agree with tis scripture but how does it apply to what I said? "You can be a Christian and be carnal, fleshly, immature and judgmental.” unless what you are saying is that we should overcome them. If so, I agree compeltely.

Overcoming the World is the same as Overcoming the Carnal Nature.

I thought you agreed with Genesis to Revelation:

1 Corinthians 3
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? ...

He was speaking to Christians

I Am in Total agreement with everything from Genesis to Revelation.

Paul is teaching what Aspiring Christians Must do to get In Christ/Messiah. Given that Christ/Messiah is Not Carnal how can you be In Christ/Messiah and be Carnal? Do you agree that a Christian is Anointed?

James 3:
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Matthew 11:8

8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.


Those that wear Soft Clothing are in the King's Courts.










Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
[/QUOTE]
Who do you consider Greater, John the Baptist or Moses? Is the Son of Man Greater than John the Baptist?

 

[Balthazzar]

Galatians 3:23

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Deuteronomy 7:15

15 And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.


Before Faith Comes you walk Blindly in Expectation/Hope of receiving the promise.

You are fighting on the Wrong Side. Elohim/God Smites Evildoers with Cancer because of their Rebellion Against Elohim/God. Cancer is Just Deserts Punishment for Sin. The Cure for Cancer is Freely Available. The Cure for Cancer is Total Obedience/Devotion to Elohim/God.

"Honor reality - Honor truth" I remember someone saying this several years back. I can't say I disagree with him. If I remember correctly, he was a cancer victim.

 

[Kenny]

Is being carnal necessarily a bad thing?

In the context of the scripture, the answer is yes. It is never presented as something good.

So yeah ... we're made of flesh, we feel passion, temptation, sorrow, pleasure, pain, and we are temporal.

In keeping in line of what I am trying to say. I don’t mean we can’t have passion… we should be passionate but not passionate about things that are sin. Yes, we are tempted but the carnal man always yields to the temptation. Yes, we all experience sorrow, but God turns our sorrow into joy. God gives us all things to enjoy and we should have pleasure in enjoying it but there are carnal pleasures that lead to death. And, yes, this life is temporal

The spirit comes after, but also before while we live in our flesh suits.

yes… we are spiritual.

It's just the nature of the game or experience called life. Living through the spirit helps us decrease some of the lesser desired experiences, but does this make them immoral?

It depends and what specifically you are talking about. If the “experience” is adultery, then ‘yes’ it is immoral. If it enjoying a good stake, it isn’t.

We don't typically like some of them, which makes us view them as bad, but are they immoral evils?

There are things that are benign. There are other things that for one it is sin and for another it is not (Rom 14).

Pain, sorrow, temptations, lust, etc all seem dissatisfying, but are they inherently bad? To think too highly of ourselves may suggest that we view ourselves to be better than others when we start living through the spirit more than they. Whoever said the life God gave us is bad anyway? It's difficult sometimes, but it's also very good best I remember.

Again… it just depends on what exactly you are referring to.

What's right for me may not be right for others, so my moral compass guides me and other peoples moral compass guides them. I prefer monogamous relationships; other people seem to prefer multiple partners and some people prefer multiple partners in the same bed together. The moral sense of what's right for them is different than my own sense of what's right for me. It's a personal thing and unique to each person as a person, subjectively true no matter the preferences. I aim for satisfaction. Some behavior is pleasurable but not satisfying.

Again… Rom 14.