Who Or What Is Israel?

[1213]

Are all Ethnic Jews a member of The House of Jacob?

Yes. But that doesn't mean that all of us honor it.

If only those who are genetically related to Jacob are Israel, what about those who have converted to Judaism, they are not real Israel and not really house of Jacob?

How can a person prove he is really of the house of Jacob? Have we Jacob's DNA somewhere?

 

[Elihoenai]

@Elihoenai @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

How did Moses defeat all the Ethiopians so he could grab Tharbis from her home country, bring her to the Indus Valley (India), and have her as his wife? What weapons did Moses use to defeat all of the Ethiopians? Were there any Ethiopians who survived being defeated and wanted to get even? And later, maybe attack Moses for what he did?

How come Moses had to defeat anyone in Ethiopia so he could have Tharbis as his wife?

Exodus 2

2 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.


Ethiopia/Kush/Cush is Israel of the Tribe of Benjamin and Brother to Moses who is a Levite.

 

[Elihoenai]

The Ethiopia may refer to another place than Ethiopia in Africa.

2 Peter 2:12

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


The Beast Wants to Claim Israel as a White Beast or a Black Beast. Israel is Spiritual and Not a White Beast or Black Beast. The White Beast and Black Beast are Enemies of Israel that are Doomed to Perish.

 

[Elihoenai]

If only those who are genetically related to Jacob are Israel, what about those who have converted to Judaism, they are not real Israel and not really house of Jacob?

How can a person prove he is really of the house of Jacob? Have we Jacob's DNA somewhere?

1 Timothy 1:4

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


These are good questions.

Nobody can prove they are really of the House of Jacob by DNA. Those that claim to have Jacob's DNA rely on others/Gentiles taking their word as the Gospel Truth by persuasion. Anybody is Free to claim Jacob's Genetic Inheritance, although this Claim doesn't get the Claimant Saved. What gets a person Saved is Total Devotion to the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel.

 

[River Sea]

The Ethiopia may refer to another place than Ethiopia in Africa.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Was Ethiopia in the Indus Valley (India)? If this were the case, then Moses's wife, Tharbis, was from the Indus Valley area that's in the Ethiopian area or tribe? Where in the Indus Valley was Ethiopia or a tribe?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

If only those who are genetically related to Jacob are Israel, what about those who have converted to Judaism, they are not real Israel and not really house of Jacob?

How can a person prove he is really of the house of Jacob? Have we Jacob's DNA somewhere?

I think the situation changed after moses. Even he married outside the 12 tribes.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Was Ethiopia in the Indus Valley (India)? If this were the case, then Moses's wife, Tharbis, was from the Indus Valley area that's in the Ethiopian area or tribe? Where in the Indus Valley was Ethiopia or a tri

It will require more study. My tentative assessment is that it was located between the Hakra and indus rivers near the sea.

 

[1213]

1 Timothy 1:4

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


These are good questions.

Nobody can prove they are really of the House of Jacob by DNA. Those that claim to have Jacob's DNA rely on others/Gentiles taking their word as the Gospel Truth by persuasion. Anybody is Free to claim Jacob's Genetic Inheritance, although this Claim doesn't get the Claimant Saved. What gets a person Saved is Total Devotion to the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel.

I agree that it is not about the DNA.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I agree that it is not about the DNA.

Surely, salvation is not about DNA. But when the Jews say they are the .chosen people. Then it becomes necessary to identify the Jews who are .Chosen. here DNA is one important criteria but not the only one.

 

[Elihoenai]

I think the situation changed after moses. Even he married outside the 12 tribes.

Exodus 3:6

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Deuteronomy 7:1-4

7 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga****es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.



Being a Hindu you have no Understanding of Moses Relationship with Elohim/God and that's why you are writing Falsely about Moses marrying outside of Israel. It's Impossible that Moses would do such a thing.

Firstly, Moses is Afraid/Fearful of Elohim/God.

Secondly, it is Impossible for Moses, the Man of Elohim/God, to be a Hypocrite. Moses does Not preach one thing and does another.

Being a Hindu you don't understand these things.

 

[Elihoenai]

I agree that it is not about the DNA.

Amen! Israel's Identity has Nothing to do with DNA. It's the Devil/Satan that asserts that because of your supposed Israel DNA you can Break all the Commandments and you still remain Much Better than a Gentile Animal that is keeping all the Commandments.

 

[Elihoenai]

Surely, salvation is not about DNA. But when the Jews say they are the .chosen people. Then it becomes necessary to identify the Jews who are .Chosen. here DNA is one important criteria but not the only one.

Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Really, the Identity of Israel/Jew has nothing to do with DNA. What makes Israel/Jew is observing the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel with Total Devotion. Elohim/God does Not Accept anything less, as this Forms Israel Out of the Nations.

In other words. for a Gentile to Become Israel they Must Overcome the Nations through Total Devotion to the Elohim/God of Israel.

Anybody can make claims of having Israel/Jew DNA and none of them can prove it.

 

[Ebionite]

Being a Hindu you have no Understanding of Moses Relationship with Elohim/God and that's why you are writing Falsely about Moses marrying outside of Israel. It's Impossible that Moses would do such a thing.

Moses' wife Zipporah was a Midianite, and the Midianites, although descendants of Abraham, were not descendants of Jacob (Israel).

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Exodus 3:6

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Deuteronomy 7:1-4

7 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga****es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.



Being a Hindu you have no Understanding of Moses Relationship with Elohim/God and that's why you are writing Falsely about Moses marrying outside of Israel. It's Impossible that Moses would do such a thing.

Firstly, Moses is Afraid/Fearful of Elohim/God.

Secondly, it is Impossible for Moses, the Man of Elohim/God, to be a Hypocrite. Moses does Not preach one thing and does another.

Being a Hindu you don't understand these things.

Num 12:1 Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ku****e woman whom he had married: “He married a Ku****e woman.”
I think this verse is clear.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Acts 10:34-35

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Really, the Identity of Israel/Jew has nothing to do with DNA. What makes Israel/Jew is observing the Religion of the Elohim/God of Israel with Total Devotion. Elohim/God does Not Accept anything less, as this Forms Israel Out of the Nations.

In other words. for a Gentile to Become Israel they Must Overcome the Nations through Total Devotion to the Elohim/God of Israel.

Anybody can make claims of having Israel/Jew DNA and none of them can prove it.

Agree entirely. Yet dna is important because it helps locate the place of abraham and jacob. It is useful for history. As far as I know there is no genetic link with Mesopotamia where abraham is said to have originated. Please do give reference if I am wrong. Thx

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Exodus 3:6

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Deuteronomy 7:1-4

7 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga****es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.



Being a Hindu you have no Understanding of Moses Relationship with Elohim/God and that's why you are writing Falsely about Moses marrying outside of Israel. It's Impossible that Moses would do such a thing.

Firstly, Moses is Afraid/Fearful of Elohim/God.

Secondly, it is Impossible for Moses, the Man of Elohim/God, to be a Hypocrite. Moses does Not preach one thing and does another.

Being a Hindu you don't understand these things.

Indeed being a hindu Deur 7.1 is alien to me. In my humble view it is also contra the all.encompassing nature of Elohim. The alleged enemies may be worshippers of Elohim. Bible does not say they wee not. So there appears to exist an inner contradiction within the Bible. Friendly question.

 

[Ebionite]

Indeed being a hindu Deur 7.1 is alien to me. In my humble view it is also contra the all.encompassing nature of Elohim. The alleged enemies may be worshippers of Elohim. Bible does not say they wee not. So there appears to exist an inner contradiction within the Bible. Friendly question.

Elohim isn't all encompassing. The usual desciption of YHWH and his people is qodesh (translated as "holy"), which means set-apart. The universal aspect of Christian religion originated with the globalist ambition of the proud man:

Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:5

 

[Elihoenai]

Num 12:1 Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ku****e woman whom he had married: “He married a Ku****e woman.”
I think this verse is clear.

Psalm 7:1

7 `The Erring One,' by David, that he sung to Jehovah concerning the words of Cush a Benjamite. O Jehovah, my God, in Thee I have trusted, Save me from all my pursuers, and deliver me.


Psalm 7:1 is absolutely clear. What are you seeing in this verse?

 

[Elihoenai]

Agree entirely. Yet dna is important because it helps locate the place of abraham and jacob. It is useful for history. As far as I know there is no genetic link with Mesopotamia where abraham is said to have originated. Please do give reference if I am wrong. Thx

Yes, indeed DNA is of critical importance to the Natural Man. The Natural Man Devotedly Asserts that Israel is Natural when Israel is Really Spiritual. The supposed Israel DNA becomes of Critical Importance when members Claiming Israel Genetic Inheritance persuade Gentiles that this is the Truth that they are the Chosen. This Claim and Acceptance has Great Benefits in the Temporal World. To the Spiritual Man none of this matters.

 

[Elihoenai]

Indeed being a hindu Deur 7.1 is alien to me. In my humble view it is also contra the all.encompassing nature of Elohim. The alleged enemies may be worshippers of Elohim. Bible does not say they wee not. So there appears to exist an inner contradiction within the Bible. Friendly question.

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


Good question and points being made.

It appears a contradiction. Elohim/God is Omni Being Good and Evil. The Enemies of Israel are Worshippers of the Evil Side of Elohim/God. While remaining in the Flesh a person is an Enemy of Israel. Overcoming the Flesh Brings Forth Israel.

Elohim/God wants its creation to climb the Ladder.

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit