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Who is "Our Lady" in Catholic speak and why

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PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Jonathan Bailey said:
are Catholic churches often named with the title "Our Lady"?

In Novato, CA there is a Catholic church named "Our Lady of Loretto".

Our Lady of Loretto Catholic Church
Click to expand...

The term "our Lady" has been added to the Catholic Gospel.
There is no "our Lady" in the New Testament, only "our Lord."

This lady is presented as being a perpetual virgin, of perfect
birth herself. She is said not to have had children, despite
the bible suggesting she had at least eight of them. She
ascended to heave (I think) and sits on the right hand of
Jesus.
So the priest is the parishioner's mediator with Mary, who is
the mediator with Christ, who is the mediator with God.

People get confused when I say I don't know much about
the Catholic Church. "But you are religious, you read the
bible!" And here's the point - all this Mary stuff isn't really
in the bible - it's all man-made.
 
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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
The simple answer is that, among Roman Catholics, there is only one "Our Lady": the mother of Jesus, Mary.

There is a litany--which is a prayer consisting of a series of invocations and supplications by the leader with alternate responses by the congregation--called "The Litany of Our Lady of Loreto". It's one of many litanies to Mary, all of which refer to her as "Our Lady".
 
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IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
PruePhillip said:
The term "our Lady" has been added to the Catholic Gospel.
There is no "our Lady" in the New Testament, only "our Lord."

This lady is presented as being a perpetual virgin, of perfect
birth herself. She is said not to have had children, despite
the bible suggesting she had at least eight of them. She
ascended to heave (I think) and sits on the right hand of
Jesus.
So the priest is the parishioner's mediator with Mary, who is
the mediator with Christ, who is the mediator with God.

People get confused when I say I don't know much about
the Catholic Church. "But you are religious, you read the
bible!" And here's the point - all this Mary stuff isn't really
in the bible - it's all man-made.
Click to expand...
This is why it is never a good idea to listen to an outsider's explanation of a particular faith -- the chances of misrepresentation are too high.
 
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PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
Been a good long while since you've been to Mass, hasn't it? Our Lady is deemed to be a mediator; she has no mediators.
Click to expand...

Of course, all this makes the bible itself
look like some man-made artifact.
Doesn't Mary mediate with the priest, and
the priest mediate with the parishioner?
 
T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
PruePhillip said:
Doesn't Mary mediate with the priest,
Click to expand...

No.

1 Timothy 2:5. "For there is one God and one intermediary [mediator] between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,,"

However, note that 1 Timothy 2:1-2 says: "First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people" In other words, Paul is encouraging everybody in the church to be mediators between God and all people, not between Mary and all people."
 
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PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
No.

1 Timothy 2:5. "For there is one God and one intermediary [mediator] between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,,"

However, note that 1 Timothy 2:1-2 says: "First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people" In other words, Paul is encouraging everybody in the church to be mediators between God and all people, not between Mary and all people."
Click to expand...

I Googled this, "because of her assumption and role as mother for all of us, she prays for us, interceding
on our behalf just as she did at Cana, asking the Lord to bestow graces to us as He wills.

Why is Mary referred to as the "mediatrix"? - Catholic Straight Answers

A lot of this stuff is as alien to me as Islam.
 
T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
PruePhillip said:
Googled this, "because of her assumption and role as mother for all of us, she prays for us, interceding on our behalf just as she did at Cana, asking the Lord to bestow graces to us as He wills.
Click to expand...

Right, and that's what Roman Catholics believe. If that's what you were trying to say, then I misunderstood you.
 
P

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
Right, and that's what Roman Catholics believe. If that's what you were trying to say, then I misunderstood you.
Click to expand...

This come across as something offensive to me. It's like making
up religious beliefs. No wonder so many see the bible as something
manufactured - like some early version of the Vatican II.
 
T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
PruePhillip said:
This comes across as something offensive to me.
Click to expand...

I'm a late convert to Roman Catholicism. I was a Lutheran before I converted and probably would not have converted if I hadn't married into a family of Mexican-born-and-raised Roman Catholics. But my conversion was a long time ago. Humans do odd things "for love." "Taking offense" would probably have ended my marriage. I've learned to pick my battles.
 
P

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
I'm a late convert to Roman Catholicism. I was a Lutheran before I converted and probably would not have converted if I hadn't married into a family of Mexican-born-and-raised Roman Catholics. But my conversion was a long time ago. Humans do odd things "for love." "Taking offense" would probably have ended my marriage. I've learned to pick my battles.
Click to expand...

I get your point - but I don't see a lot of "love" in the way the Gospels
have been essentially rewritten. You love them or you don't.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
PruePhillip said:
The term "our Lady" has been added to the Catholic Gospel.
There is no "our Lady" in the New Testament, only "our Lord."

This lady is presented as being a perpetual virgin, of perfect
birth herself. She is said not to have had children, despite
the bible suggesting she had at least eight of them. She
ascended to heave (I think) and sits on the right hand of
Jesus.
So the priest is the parishioner's mediator with Mary, who is
the mediator with Christ, who is the mediator with God.

People get confused when I say I don't know much about
the Catholic Church. "But you are religious, you read the
bible!" And here's the point - all this Mary stuff isn't really
in the bible - it's all man-made.
Click to expand...

You can always tell a Fundamentalist.. They must attack Catholicism.
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
PruePhillip said:
The term "our Lady" has been added to the Catholic Gospel.
There is no "our Lady" in the New Testament, only "our Lord."

This lady is presented as being a perpetual virgin, of perfect
birth herself. She is said not to have had children, despite
the bible suggesting she had at least eight of them. She
ascended to heave (I think) and sits on the right hand of
Jesus.
So the priest is the parishioner's mediator with Mary, who is
the mediator with Christ, who is the mediator with God.

People get confused when I say I don't know much about
the Catholic Church. "But you are religious, you read the
bible!" And here's the point - all this Mary stuff isn't really
in the bible - it's all man-made.
Click to expand...
Well you certainly don't know a great deal about Catholic belief, as you have just demonstrated. There seems little room for confusion there.

There is no "Catholic gospel". What are you referring to?

And the priest is not an intermediary between parishioners and Mary. He is an intermediary, for certain specific (sacramental) purposes, with God.

And it is also nonsense that Christ is a mediator with God.* Catholics believe in the Trinity.

[* Erratum note: Windwalker has subsequently point out to me that I was incorrect here: the bible actually does speak of Christ being a mediator between God and Man, having both human and divine nature himself.]

Mary is one of the saints, the most important, being the Mother of God. Catholics sometimes pray to the saints to intercede with God for them, as well as to God directly. Due to her importance, and the fact that she is an archetypal mother figure and thus seems particularly approachable, there are quite a lot of prayers to Mary in the Catholic church.

It is quite true that a lot of Catholic theology is not found directly in the bible. Some of it is the product of the thought of theologians and holy men and women through the centuries, reflecting on scripture. But then this is just what any Protestant preacher does, interpreting bible passages for his flock, in the pulpit on any Sunday. The difference is that the Catholic church, being old and having a culture of learning, has collected a number of these interpretations and adopted them formally as part of the beliefs.
 
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PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
exchemist said:
Well you certainly don't know a great deal about Catholic belief, as you have just demonstrated. There seems little room for confusion there.

There is no "Catholic gospel". What are you referring to?

And the priest is not an intermediary between parishioners and Mary. He is an intermediary, for certain specific (sacramental) purposes, with God.

And it is also nonsense that Christ is a mediator with God. Catholics believe in the Trinity.

Mary is one of the saints, the most important, being the Mother of God. Catholics sometimes pray to the saints to intercede with God for them, as well as to God directly. Due to her importance, and the fact that she is an archetypal mother figure and thus seems particularly approachable, there are quite a lot of prayers to Mary in the Catholic church.

It is quite true that a lot of Catholic theology is not found directly in the bible. Some of it is the product of the thought of theologians and holy men and women through the centuries, reflecting on scripture. But then this is just what any Protestant preacher does, interpreting bible passages for his flock, in the pulpit on any Sunday. The difference is that the Catholic church, being old and having a culture of learning, has collected a number of these interpretations and adopted them formally as part of the beliefs.
Click to expand...

I certainly see a Catholic Gospel, just as I see a Mormon and Jehovah Witness Gospel.
All three of these groups insist the first church was a primitive organization, and the
Gospels needed further refinement, elaboration and modification. This is where you get
Thomas Aquinas, Joseph Smith and Joseph Rutherford from.
These men did not respect the simplicity of the Gospels and helped to create these
vast political and corporate identities we call "religions."
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
PruePhillip said:
I certainly see a Catholic Gospel, just as I see a Mormon and Jehovah Witness Gospel.
All three of these groups insist the first church was a primitive organization, and the
Gospels needed further refinement, elaboration and modification. This is where you get
Thomas Aquinas, Joseph Smith and Joseph Rutherford from.
These men did not respect the simplicity of the Gospels and helped to create these
vast political and corporate identities we call "religions."
Click to expand...
Oh, you mean "gospel" in a figurative sense. I think you are rather stretching the meaning of the word (see here for example:Gospel - Wikipedia) but I see what you mean now, at least.
 
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