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Who embarked Isra/Mir'aj-Prophet Muhammad or Moses?

faroukfarouk

Active Member
So brother to you....
1.O
ur Qiblah must be in the direction of Egypt.
2.Moses (pbbuh) was not in the fold of Islam hence he was a Kafir (Allah forbid)
3.The entire land in present day Israel is called Musjidal Aqsa.

What about Ebrahim AS was he also not in the fold of Islam?
 

Union

Well-Known Member
So brother to you....
1.O
ur Qiblah must be in the direction of Egypt.
2.Moses (pbbuh) was not in the fold of Islam hence he was a Kafir (Allah forbid)
3.The entire land in present day Israel is called Musjidal Aqsa.

What about Ebrahim AS was he also not in the fold of Islam?

You absolutely got me wrong . Here are the clarifications :

01. Qiblah in time of Moses and Muhammad are different . If I were born in Moses' time , yes my Qiblah would be towards Egypt . As I am born during Prophet Muhammad's era , my Qiblah is Mecca .
02. All prophets are Muslims and their religions are Islam , but laws and tenets are different . Thats what I meant .
03. In broader sense , yes .
 

faroukfarouk

Active Member
So after Moses (pbbuh) many a Prophets came after him.
Which was their Qiblah?
When did the Qiblah change take place?
How many Masjidul Haram are mentioned in the Noble Quraan?

Now if all Prophets were in Islam then what about the Bani Israel.
We're they also in Islam?
 

Union

Well-Known Member
So after Moses (pbbuh) many a Prophets came after him.
Which was their Qiblah?
No clue.

When did the Qiblah change take place?
Since the verse revealed :
[002:144] We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do.

How many Masjidul Haram are mentioned in the Noble Quraan?
Two .
One for Prophet Moses - his Qiblah in Egypt .
One for Prophet Muhammad - his Qiblah in Mecca

Now if all Prophets were in Islam then what about the Bani Israel.
We're they also in Islam?
:shrug:
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Salaams brother Union
Which was the first Qiblah that our Nabi SAW faced before the change took place?
I don't know very specific answer to that , But Qur'an mentioned that before Mecca there was Qiblah in Egypt :

[010:087] We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into Qiblahs, and establish regular prayers: and give glad tidings to those who believe!"
 

dias99

New Member
What do you think of 53:13-18? What is sidrotil-muntahaa? Is it heaven? So Muhammad SAW did ascending and saw heaven by himself?.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
So far the Qur'an is concerned , there is no evidence of Prophet Muhammad's ascension to heaven which is traditionally called Isra or Mirajj.The verse that is believed to be associate with this is :

[017:001] Glory to (God) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

This verse doesn't mention the name rather said 'His servant' .Now the question is who is this servant . Traditionally it is interpreted as Prophet Muhammad . But if you restrict yourself within the Qur'an , to look for the answer for this question , the immediate next verse will answer you that it was prophet Moses :

[017:002] And WE gave Moses the Book and WE made it a guidance for the Children of Israel, commanding, `Take ye no guardian beside ME,

If you keep on reading the verse 3,4,5... you will see that all are about Prophet Moses and his tribe Bani Israel . In fact the chapter itself named ' Bani Israel' which predicts the sura to be dedicated to discuss about the story of Moses and his tribe primarily .

Also it would be really appealing to inquire whether Prophet Moses had ever undertaken any night journey which might appear noticeable/vital for his life . Yes , we really do find this incident described by Almighty ALLAH in Qur'an in sevearl different places :

[028:029] Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was traveling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."
[028:030] But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground: "O Moses! Verily I am God, the Lord of the Worlds....
[028:031] "Now do thou throw thy rod!" but when he saw it moving (of its own accord) as if it had been a snake, he turned back in retreat, and retraced not his steps: O Moses!" (It was said), "Draw near, and fear not: for thou art of those who are secure.
[028:032] "Move thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm), and draw thy hand close to thy side (to guard) against fear. Those are the two credentials from thy Lord to Pharaoh and his Chiefs: for truly they are a people rebellious and wicked."


[020:009] Has the story of Moses reached thee?
[020:010] Behold, he saw a fire: So he said to his family, "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."
[020:011] But when he came to the fire, a voice was heard: "O Moses!
[020:012] "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes: thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
[020:013] "I have chosen thee: listen, then, to the inspiration (sent to thee).
[020:014] "Verily, I am God: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
[020:015] "Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.
[020:016] "Therefore let not such as believe not therein but follow their own lusts, divert thee therefrom, lest thou perish!"..
[020:017] "And what is that in the right hand, O Moses?"
[020:018] He said, "It is my rod: on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses."
[020:019] (God) said, "Throw it, O Moses!"
[020:020] He threw it, and behold! It was a snake, active in motion.
[020:021] (God) said, "Seize it, and fear not: We shall return it at once to its former condition"..
[020:022] "Now draw thy hand close to thy side: It shall come forth white (and shining), without harm (or stain),- as another Sign,-
[020:023] "In order that We may show thee (two) of our Greater Signs.


[027:007] Behold! Moses said to his family: "I perceive a fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel, that ye may warn yourselves.
[027:008] But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard: "Blessed are those in the fire and those around: and glory to God, the Lord of the worlds.
[027:009] "O Moses! verily, I am God, the exalted in might, the wise!....
[027:010] "Now do thou throw thy rod!" But when he saw it moving (of its own accord)as if it had been a snake, he turned back in retreat, and retraced not his steps: "O Moses!" (it was said), "Fear not: truly, in My presence, those called as apostles have no fear,-
[027:011] "But if any have done wrong and have thereafter substituted good to take the place of evil, truly, I am Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[027:012] "Now put thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm): (these are) among the nine Signs (thou wilt take) to Pharaoh and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression."


There is also another account of night journey undertaken by Prophet Moses along with tribe of Israel is here :

[044:023] So go forth with My servants by night; surely you will be pursued:
[044:024] And leave the sea intervening; surely they are a host that shall be drowned.


The above mentioned night journeys of Prophet Moses has a neat link with verse 17:1 which mistakenly interpreted of Muhammad's . Moreover we have seen before , verse 17:2 mentioned Moses' name and verse 17:1 and 17:2 are separated by 'wa' (and) which suggest a continuation of the incident.

And you have just posted:

Jews deserve Israel
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/jews-deserve-israel-quran-confirms.189849/

Is it a mere chance?!
 

mojtaba

Active Member
In addition God Himself has declared in the Quran that no being has ideas of the afterlife like paradise. And stories of Miraj contradicts it by seeing that Muhammad himself had witnessed heaven and hell!
Salamun Alayki wa Rahmatullah.

This post proves that you are not familiar with Quran.

Allah said,' Indeed all honour(العزة) belongs to Allah.'[4:139]
But He(swt) also said, 'All honour(العزة) belongs to Allah and His Apostle and the faithful'[63:8]

So, when Allah says,'No one knows what delights have been kept hidden for them [in the Paradise]', this does not mean that no one knows such and such things about Paradise at all. If God wills, He can inform His servants about those facts. Just like the honour. Intrinsically, it is only for Him, but He gives also the honour to his Prophet and the faithful.

Allah said, 'Knower He of the Unseen, and He discloses not His Unseen to anyone, (26) save only to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with...(27)[ Sura Al-Jinn ]

Also, the verses which are about the Mi'raj of Prophet(s.a.w.a.w.s.) prove that he went into the Paradise(Jannah) and saw it. Chapter An-Najm(53):

And certainly he( based on the previous verses, Prophet Muhammad) saw Him( i.e., some of the greatest signs of the Lord, through his heart. See the verses 11 and 18 ) descend a second time: (13) around the lote tree beyond which none may pass (14) around [ that tree is ] the Paradise(Jannah) of Repose, (15)

May Allah bless all of us.
 
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mojtaba

Active Member
The first verses of the Chapter An-Najm prove that that Servant who did the Mi'raj, was just Prophet Muhammad(pbuh&hpp), not Prophet Moses(a.n.w.a.w.a.s.).

1.In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful; By the star when it sets;
2.your companion[ Prophet Muhammad ] has neither gone astray, nor amiss.
3.Nor does he speak out of [his own] desire:
4.it is just a revelation that is revealed [to him],
5.taught him by One of great powers,
6.possessed of sound judgement. He settled,
7.while he was on the highest horizon.
8.Then he drew nearer and nearer
9.until he was within two bows’ length or even nearer,
10.whereat He revealed to His servant whatever He revealed.
11.The heart did not deny what it saw.
12.Will you then dispute with him about what he saw?!
13.Certainly he saw it yet another time,
14.around the Lote Tree of the Ultimate Boundary,
15.around [ that tree is ] the Paradise of Repose,
16.when there covered the Lote Tree what covered it.
17.His gaze did not swerve, nor did it overstep the bounds.
18.Certainly he saw some of the greatest signs of his Lord.

I see that the verse 12 revealed for such this times, when the Mi'raj of Propjet Muhammad is being rejected!(Will you then dispute with him about what he saw?!)

Dumtum Fi Ri'ayatillah!
 
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Union

Well-Known Member
Salamun Alayki wa Rahmatullah.

This post proves that you are not familiar with Quran.

Allah said,' Indeed all honour(العزة) belongs to Allah.'[4:139]
But He(swt) also said, 'All honour(العزة) belongs to Allah and His Apostle and the faithful'[63:8]

What this has to do with the thought she shared ?

So, when Allah says,'No one knows what delights have been kept hidden for them [in the Paradise]', this does not mean that no one knows such and such things about Paradise at all. If God wills, He can inform His servants about those facts. Just like the honour. Intrinsically, it is only for Him, but He gives also the honour to his Prophet and the faithful.

ALLAH swt said it all .

Allah said, 'Knower He of the Unseen, and He discloses not His Unseen to anyone, (26) save only to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with...(27)[ Sura Al-Jinn ]

Agreed on unseen knowledge , may be description of Paradise as well revealed by ALLAH swt to Prophet Muhammad to increase his knowledge in unseen , but it doesn't mean that he saw Jannah with his eyes . Verse 32:17 ,6:35 , 17:93 are against Prophet's ascension heaven .

Also, the verses which are about the Mi'raj of Prophet(s.a.w.a.w.s.) prove that he went into the Paradise(Jannah) and saw it. Chapter An-Najm(53):

And certainly he( based on the previous verses, Prophet Muhammad) saw Him( i.e., some of the greatest signs of the Lord, through his heart. See the verses 11 and 18 ) descend a second time: (13) around the lote tree beyond which none may pass (14) around [ that tree is ] the Paradise(Jannah) of Repose, (15)
May Allah bless all of us.
That incident was not taken place in heaven rather in earth .
 
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Union

Well-Known Member
The first verses of the Chapter An-Najm prove that that Servant who did the Mi'raj, was just Prophet Muhammad(pbuh&hpp), not Prophet Moses(a.n.w.a.w.a.s.).

1.In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful; By the star when it sets;
2.your companion[ Prophet Muhammad ] has neither gone astray, nor amiss.
3.Nor does he speak out of [his own] desire:
4.it is just a revelation that is revealed [to him],
5.taught him by One of great powers,
6.possessed of sound judgement. He settled,
7.while he was on the highest horizon.
8.Then he drew nearer and nearer
9.until he was within two bows’ length or even nearer,
10.whereat He revealed to His servant whatever He revealed.
11.The heart did not deny what it saw.
12.Will you then dispute with him about what he saw?!
13.Certainly he saw it yet another time,
14.around the Lote Tree of the Ultimate Boundary,
15.around [ that tree is ] the Paradise of Repose,
16.when there covered the Lote Tree what covered it.
17.His gaze did not swerve, nor did it overstep the bounds.
18.Certainly he saw some of the greatest signs of his Lord.

I see that the verse 12 revealed for such this times, when the Mi'raj of Propjet Muhammad is being rejected!(Will you then dispute with him about what he saw?!)

Dumtum Fi Ri'ayatillah!

These verses suggested that ALLAH swt ( or Archangel) descended to the earth to reveal Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Muhammad observed it close to a lote tree of his garden at home .
 

mojtaba

Active Member
What this has to do with the thought she shared ?
I meant, when Allah says, 'No one knows what delights have been kept hidden for them in the Paradise', according to those verses which I brought, this verse meas, No one knows what delights have been kept hidden for them in the Paradise, save those whom Allah informs to the issue.

ALLAH swt said it all .
No. He didn't say.
Allah says, 'With Him are the treasures of the Unseen; no one knows them except Him.'[6:59]

Based on your view, this verse says that no one knows the unseen but Allah. While, Allah says that others like Prophets or others, know the unseen as well.

For example, Allahs says, 'Allah said, 'Knower He of the Unseen, and He discloses not His Unseen to anyone, (26) save only to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with...(27)'[ Sura Al-Jinn ]

So, those verses which says only Allah knows the unseen, means that no one but Allah knows the unseen intrinsically. But, others could be awar of unseen as well, when Allah gives them it.

Agreed on unseen knowledge , may be description of Paradise as well revealed by ALLAH swt to Prophet Muhammad to increase his knowledge in unseen , but it doesn't mean that he saw Jannah with his eyes . Verse 32:17 ,6:35 , 17:93 are against Prophet's ascension heaven .
No, it was not only a revealation.

Allah says,
Indeed, he saw him another time (13) around the Lote-Tree of the Boundary (14) around which is the Paradise of the Refuge, (15) when there covered the Lote-Tree that which covered; (16) his eye swerved not; nor swept astray. (17)

That incident was not taken place in heaven rather in earth .
I do not know why do you not see the verse correctly?!

Is the Paradise of the Refuge in the earth?!!

Indeed, he saw him another time (13) around the Lote-Tree of the Boundary (14) around which is the Paradise of the Refuge, (15)

You are wrong. The Mi'raj of Prophet Muhammad is mentioned directly in Quran.
 

mojtaba

Active Member
These verses suggested that ALLAH swt ( or Archangel) descended to the earth to reveal Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Muhammad observed it close to a lote tree of his garden at home .
Is the Paradise of the Refuge at the home of Rasulullah(sawaws)?!!

Indeed, he saw him another time (13) around the Lote-Tree of the Boundary (14) around which is the Paradise of the Refuge, (15)
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Is the Paradise of the Refuge at the home of Rasulullah(sawaws)?!!

Indeed, he saw him another time (13) around the Lote-Tree of the Boundary (14) around which is the Paradise of the Refuge, (15)

There are few points in those verses which all are directing towards a single conclusion :

01. The verse says HE ( or he) descended from the highest point of horizon nearer to Prophet Muhammad not Prophet ascended from the highest point of horizon toward HE ( or he) . Hence it happened on the face of the earth and not in the heaven.

02.The context of the of verse is the revelation of Qur'an and Qur'an was brought down to Prophet Muhammad to this earth . Ref. 26:193 ,29:46, 97:04 etc.

03. Jannah doesn't necessarily means always Paradise or heaven . It also means a simple garden that human can possess . Ref. 6:99,6:141,13:4,34:15 etc.

04. The noun 'Mawa' attached to Jannah in verse 53:15 simply means abode , shelter , home-stead etc. Note that Almighty GOD used the same word to confirm that HE gave shelter/home to Prophet Muhammad and did a favor for him . Ref.93:6.

05. Lote trees are also grown in peoples' garden . Ref.34:16

Keeping the attention in Qur'an only , all what mentioned above conclude that the incident was an earthly one .
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Source of knowledge of unseen of Prophet Muhammad was Qur'an :

[003:044] This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Apostle!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

[007:188] Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as God willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

[011:049] Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous.

[012:102] Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen, which We reveal by inspiration unto thee; nor wast thou (present) with them then when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots.

[006:050] Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of God, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?
 

mojtaba

Active Member
Source of knowledge of unseen of Prophet Muhammad was Qur'an :

[003:044] This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Apostle!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

[007:188] Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as God willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

[011:049] Such are some of the stories of the unseen, which We have revealed unto thee: before this, neither thou nor thy people knew them. So persevere patiently: for the End is for those who are righteous.

[012:102] Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen, which We reveal by inspiration unto thee; nor wast thou (present) with them then when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots.

[006:050] Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of God, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?
You are wrong. According to the ff verses, Prophet was informed about an unseen knowledge which we can not find it in Quran.

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful.O [dear] Prophet! Why do you disallow [yourself] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful. (1) Allah has certainly made lawful for you the dissolution of your oaths, and Allah is your master and He is the All-knowing, the All-wise. (2) When the Prophet confided a matter to one of his wives, but when she divulged it [instead of guarding the secret] and Allah apprised him[ Prophet ] about it, he acquainted [her] with part of the matter and ignored part of it. So when he told her about it, she said, ‘Who informed you about it?’ He said, ‘The All-knowing and the All-aware has informed me.’ (3)

Search quran till the ِDay of Resurrection. You can not find that knowledge of unseen which Allah informed Prophet, in Quran.
 
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