White Privilege

[Epic Beard Man]

If you stated facts then they would be applicable to me. But they are not, and this is a fact.


Did you even look at the links that I provided, or are you just going to churn out blog posts?

Ok going by your first link:How Beauty Is Defined Around the World

It describes beauty defined by various cultures around the world. The very title itself is called: "How Beauty Is Defined Around the World" the very definition of the title implies how beauty in accordance to individual cultures, is defined around the world. This is very different than the position I presupposed as a "global standard" that is, from a collective point of view what is considered the global standard. This is a staunch difference than what your link suggests.

Your second link:The Elegance Of Female Beauty Captured From Across The Globe - Page 3 of 70 - Jetlaggin

Is like your first link it is looking at individual cultures and their (the individual cutture's) idea of beauty respective of their culture. You have not presented me anything that contradicts the articles I've displayed regarding the Eurocentric standard of beauty. Again, you're lack of contradicting my claims is evident.

You said: "If you stated facts then they would be applicable to me. But they are not, and this is a fact." I know you're not this dense...let me help you out by rephrasing my comment.

When I talk about a global standard of beauty I am talking about the collective idea cross culturally that European features is a standard of beauty cross culturally. I mean I gave you an article from an Ivy league source and you still rejected it?

The following is a research article:

"Perhaps the most insidious effect of white supremacy racism has been its impact on how people of color view their physical appearance. Throughout the world the globalization of Eurocentric standards of beauty has resulted in the development of industries that support it, the marketing of images that reify it, the structuring of policies that reward it, and the enactment of interpersonal and personal behavioral routines that emulate it. In India, one of the most recent and disturbing manifestations of the obsession with European standards of beauty can be observed in the development and marketing of a product called ‘Clean and Dry’ which is designed to lighten dark vaginas (Pal, 2012). Throughout the Caribbean, Africa, and in the United States the devastating effects of skin bleaching can be seen in the faces of women whose skin though lighter, exhibits thinning and who are requiring dermatological treatment to deal with the destructive health effects of skin bleaching (Catherine Saint Louis, n.d.)."

An Analysis of the Impact of Eurocentric Concepts of Beauty on the Lives of Afrikan American Women (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...Beauty_on_the_Lives_of_Afrikan_American_Women [accessed Sep 25, 2017].

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think it was originally brought up as a dominant aspect of US history which puts into context the current situation and some of the policies and reforms put in place to counter the phenomenon known as "white privilege." Explaining it would be problematic, since it would entail explaining how it came into being in the first place.

The reason why a lot of people roll their eyes at the notion of "white privilege" is because it takes a very real concept and tries to summarize it in a rather abstract and esoteric way that it's misunderstood. Then, when people try to explain what it means, it gets even more muddled and confused. Ultimately, I think it's just a way of making people aware, in the hope that we can someday achieve a free and equal society where all can enjoy the same rights regardless of race, creed, color, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, or sports team affiliations.

I don't think it's really a matter of whether "white privilege" exists, since the implication is that it shouldn't exist.

The fact remains with many people cross culturally is that you are a member of the effected target group of privilege, nobody seems to want to accept they are a member of a privileged group. The lack of concern or awareness of this fact when brought up by a member of a disenfranchised group, demonstrates the rejection of open-mindedness..

 

[Nakosis]

I don't think it's really a matter of whether "white privilege" exists, since the implication is that it shouldn't exist.

If white privilege is really a form of success privilege should success privilege exist? Should those who are successful set the norms for society?

Kind of silly IMO to measure one's ability to succeed by their skin tone IMO. Not saying that people don't but it's really a ****-poor indicator. It's like relying on astrology to determine your fate.

Opps, hope I didn't offend any fortunetellers. If it makes you feel any better, I was a fortuneteller myself at one time.

Even back in 1935 they said it wasn't an economic indicator. Just folks treating you like you had a better chance to succeed. Don't know how much of a benefit that is. Folks assuming you'll be successful, guess I never thought of letting what other folks think about me determine whether I was successful or not.

 

[Nakosis]

The fact remains with many people cross culturally is that you are a member of the effected target group of privilege, nobody seems to want to accept they are a member of a privileged group. The lack of concern or awareness of this fact when brought up by a member of a disenfranchised group, demonstrates the rejection of open-mindedness..

It's only a problem for folks who believe skin tone is an indicator of how successful one can be. My answer to them is stop worrying about what other folks think, just go forth and succeed. Then you get to be the trend setter, whatever your skin tone.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

This is very different than the position I presupposed as a "global standard" that is, from a collective point of view what is considered the global standard.

I googled "global standard of beauty". Know what came up? The first result was the first link that I gave you. Then a repetition of Esther Honig's face being photoshopped by multiple countries to fit their standard of beauty. Which indicates that there is no "global standard".

You said: "If you stated facts then they would be applicable to me. But they are not, and this is a fact." I know you're not this dense...let me help you out by rephrasing my comment.

I'm not a woman, so beauty standards really mean zip to me. What do I benefit from some Korean and Chinese girls making themselves look white?

The other "facts" that you've churned out are just as inapplicable. If they were facts, then I would not be able to refute them. Yet I have, and the best that you've come back with is "well you've just got blinders on."

When I talk about a global standard of beauty I am talking about the collective idea cross culturally that European features is a standard of beauty cross culturally. I mean I gave you an article from an Ivy league source and you still rejected it?

You didn't give me an "Ivy league" source, you gave a blog site named "Medical Bag" that looks to be mostly spam. Their sources are also very questionable. Not one is a medical article, or presented professionally.

The following is a research article:

That has nothing to do with me, or any "privileges" that I might have. Also calling that a "research article" is overly generous. It's yet another blog post.

nobody seems to want to accept they are a member of a privileged group.

Probably because when your life is crap, being told that you're privileged is kind of a kick in the nads. I just had rice and butter for dinner, but thank the gods that band-aids match my [REDACTED] skin tone. (But again, they don't.)

 

[Stevicus]

The fact remains with many people cross culturally is that you are a member of the effected target group of privilege, nobody seems to want to accept they are a member of a privileged group. The lack of concern or awareness of this fact when brought up by a member of a disenfranchised group, demonstrates the rejection of open-mindedness..

It's possible that people might have cause to resist being labeled as part of any "group," although it does not follow that it would indicate a lack of concern or awareness.

Why is it so important that anyone "accept they are a member of a privileged group" anyway? You make it sound like an AA meeting, like the first step is in admitting one has a problem. As if it's some kind of "affirmation" that every white person must make.

It also seems to send a mixed message, especially when it appears directed on an individualized and personal level. Let's face it: Nobody asks to be born into whatever situation they're born into. I didn't ask to be white. I didn't ask to be born in the United States. I didn't even ask to be born at all. I can't change the history of what happened in this country or how we all happened to be here on the same soil.

We're here now, and we're all stuck with each other, for better or worse.

Could things be better? Sure, they could be a lot better, but they could also be a lot worse. I don't know what the future holds, but recent events make it appear as if we're heading in a grim direction. Whether it's North Korean nukes, ISIS terrorists, Russian hackers - and all of our own homegrown crazies from both ends of the spectrum...you just get the feeling like something bad is coming down the pipe.

I think, eventually, we may have to restructure some things in this country - largely because of our history and the legacy that still persists due to certain odious aspects of it. We may have to start over and rebuild our country from scratch, at least in some ways. It doesn't mean that we forget our history, but I'm seeing now that the mistake we've made in this country was in trying to reform and change malicious policies and institutions in the past - while still attempting to maintain the basic identity of the nation and government that perpetrated the very atrocities which led to the state of affairs we have now. If there is a source of this "white privilege," it likely exists there.

Even if we try to whitewash certain things or "rehabilitate" certain ideas while touting ourselves as the "new and improved" version of America, some of the more unpleasant memories of our past still crop up. It's like we're trying to hold a festive celebration in a graveyard and all these corpses keep popping up out of the ground.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It's only a problem for folks who believe skin tone is an indicator of how successful one can be. My answer to them is stop worrying about what other folks think, just go forth and succeed. Then you get to be the trend setter, whatever your skin tone.

It's easier said than done. In the United States there have been decades upon decades of things that contradict what you said. If you cannot see that then my friend you are blind! You simply cannot ignore social ills that effect disenfranchised communities!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I googled "global standard of beauty". Know what came up? The first result was the first link that I gave you. Then a repetition of Esther Honig's face being photoshopped by multiple countries to fit their standard of beauty. Which indicates that there is no "global standard".


I'm not a woman, so beauty standards really mean zip to me. What do I benefit from some Korean and Chinese girls making themselves look white?

The other "facts" that you've churned out are just as inapplicable. If they were facts, then I would not be able to refute them. Yet I have, and the best that you've come back with is "well you've just got blinders on."


You didn't give me an "Ivy league" source, you gave a blog site named "Medical Bag" that looks to be mostly spam. Their sources are also very questionable. Not one is a medical article, or presented professionally.


That has nothing to do with me, or any "privileges" that I might have. Also calling that a "research article" is overly generous. It's yet another blog post.


Probably because when your life is crap, being told that you're privileged is kind of a kick in the nads. I just had rice and butter for dinner, but thank the gods that band-aids match my [REDACTED] skin tone. (But again, they don't.)

The Beauty Ideal: The Effects of European Standards of Beauty on Black Women – Columbia Social Work Review

Apparently you've never been to a University....Whenever you see the IP that ends in edu it means "education and usually the source is from a University. If you click on the link the source comes from "Columbia Social Work Review" Columbia University is an Ivy League school. I suggest you read the link and come back here.

 

[gnomon]

Explain white privilege to me.

If there are some benefits to being white, I'd like to know what they are so I can start benefiting from them.

It took many misdemeanor arrests before I was actually incarcerated for two weeks. Because I'm white. My minority friends only had one arrest before they were incarcerated.

That is all you need to know and if you don't understand that.........I have nothing more to say to you.

Because this fact has been available for decades for anyone willing to study the actual issue.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

1) It's possible that people might have cause to resist being labeled as part of any "group," although it does not follow that it would indicate a lack of concern or awareness.

2) Why is it so important that anyone "accept they are a member of a privileged group" anyway? You make it sound like an AA meeting, like the first step is in admitting one has a problem. As if it's some kind of "affirmation" that every white person must make.

3) It also seems to send a mixed message, especially when it appears directed on an individualized and personal level. Let's face it: Nobody asks to be born into whatever situation they're born into. I didn't ask to be white. I didn't ask to be born in the United States. I didn't even ask to be born at all. I can't change the history of what happened in this country or how we all happened to be here on the same soil.

We're here now, and we're all stuck with each other, for better or worse.

4) Could things be better? Sure, they could be a lot better, but they could also be a lot worse. I don't know what the future holds, but recent events make it appear as if we're heading in a grim direction. Whether it's North Korean nukes, ISIS terrorists, Russian hackers - and all of our own homegrown crazies from both ends of the spectrum...you just get the feeling like something bad is coming down the pipe.

5) I think, eventually, we may have to restructure some things in this country - largely because of our history and the legacy that still persists due to certain odious aspects of it. We may have to start over and rebuild our country from scratch, at least in some ways. It doesn't mean that we forget our history, but I'm seeing now that the mistake we've made in this country was in trying to reform and change malicious policies and institutions in the past - while still attempting to maintain the basic identity of the nation and government that perpetrated the very atrocities which led to the state of affairs we have now. If there is a source of this "white privilege," it likely exists there.

6) Even if we try to whitewash certain things or "rehabilitate" certain ideas while touting ourselves as the "new and improved" version of America, some of the more unpleasant memories of our past still crop up. It's like we're trying to hold a festive celebration in a graveyard and all these corpses keep popping up out of the ground.

I am going to answer some of your key points excuse me as I have not mastered the quote by quote feature....

1) What is the cause to resist? From my point of you if one acknowledges an issue yet refrains to contemplate it and address it, it is a willingness to avoid what is perceived as uncomfortable.

2) To accept one's privilege means that you can embrace the complaint of those that are disenfranchised. For example I can understand the complaints of women feeling secondary in certain arenas that may favor men. I can fully appreciate and understand that as a man, there are things negatively I do not experience because of my gender that women face daily. It gives me a healthy appreciation of the women who strive and overcome those obstacles. The same can be said about white privilege. I think the dialogue must begin where one side must listen to the hardships of the other even when said person believes they do not experience the privilege, one must just simply listen, but listen to understand not respond to create an argument.

3) I didn't ask to be black, nor did I asked to be discriminated against because of my skin color. I didn't asked to be portrayed as a demon because my skin is darker either. The question is why would I feel this way? Why do I exist in a society that psychologically make me feel this way? Sure we do not choose our bodies or the society we exist in but we exist, here, and now. When there are problems we must address it.

4) Agreed

5) Agreed

6) Yes, the nightmares of the past do have a residual effect today and its going to take generations upon generations upon generations where the grasp of the devil's claws will release us from our ignorance.

 

[Willamena]

So... now not understanding is white privilege too.

View attachment 18929

It's almost like you're desperate to apply this notion, at this point.

Usually, it's about arrogance. We all have a certain degree of arrogance. The way the human being is designed, we're all living at the center of our own universe. So because we function as God in our existential experience -- choosing, creating, deleting, etc. -- we develop a kind of existential arrogance.

-David Gerrold

White privilege is not having to know what white privilege is

 

[Revoltingest]

It's perfectly OK to bash white males and blame them for everything from toilets that don't flush.....

Not for lack of try'n tuh fix'm!

 

[Revoltingest]

White privilege is not having to know what white privilege is

What a coincidence!
Black privilege & female privilege & youth privilege & senior privilege function the same way.

 

[Willamena]

What a coincidence!
Black privilege & female privilege & youth privilege & senior privilege function the same way.

They can demonstrate white privilege, too; but white privilege is exampled by only one demographic.

 

[Revoltingest]

They can demonstrate white privilege, too; but white privilege is exampled by only one demographic.

The other privileges are also demographics which are singular in their titular respect.

 

[Willamena]

The other privileges are also demographics which are singular in their titular respect.

They are, but they're not white privilege.

 

[Revoltingest]

They are, but they're not white privilege.

Tis true, when dividing up privilege this way.
But those other groups have their separate privileges too.
Females have it particularly good....ineligible for the military draft, much longer
lives, affirmative action preferences, get'n no grief for wear'n a kilt, etc.

People so prone to crying "Privilege!" are so often blind to their own.

 

[Willamena]

Tis true, when dividing up privilege this way.
But those other groups have their separate privileges too.

Yes, and... all lives matter.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, and... all lives matter.

I like that.

 

[Stevicus]

I am going to answer some of your key points excuse me as I have not mastered the quote by quote feature....

1) What is the cause to resist? From my point of you if one acknowledges an issue yet refrains to contemplate it and address it, it is a willingness to avoid what is perceived as uncomfortable.

It could also be resistance due to the loaded terms and the kind of rhetoric which is used. The issue may be that addressing white privilege is more vague and process-oriented, without really outlining any specific objective or goal. It focuses more on form than content.

A recurring pattern I've noticed in politics these days is that ideologues tend to fall in love with their own rhetoric and terminology to the point where that has become more important than the actual "message" they're trying to send. By the same token, it's natural to resist being labeled in the language of one's opposition.

2) To accept one's privilege means that you can embrace the complaint of those that are disenfranchised. For example I can understand the complaints of women feeling secondary in certain arenas that may favor men. I can fully appreciate and understand that as a man, there are things negatively I do not experience because of my gender that women face daily. It gives me a healthy appreciation of the women who strive and overcome those obstacles. The same can be said about white privilege. I think the dialogue must begin where one side must listen to the hardships of the other even when said person believes they do not experience the privilege, one must just simply listen, but listen to understand not respond to create an argument.

I can understand the complaints, and I certainly have no problem with listening and keeping an open mind about what's going on in this country and what other people face. But we all have to listen to each other. That's what is missing in the current political climate. Again, I think it has to do with falling in love with a certain kind of rhetoric and wanting to make it stick.

And in fact, the "dialogue" has already begun. It began before anyone here today was even born. The question is: Is it an honest dialogue? Are we getting the straight story about what's actually happening in this country?

To use your example, there are some men who believe that the complaints of women today are disingenuous - or terribly exaggerated and embellished. So, even if men are willing to listen, it doesn't automatically mean that they'll believe what they're being told.

3) I didn't ask to be black, nor did I asked to be discriminated against because of my skin color. I didn't asked to be portrayed as a demon because my skin is darker either. The question is why would I feel this way? Why do I exist in a society that psychologically make me feel this way? Sure we do not choose our bodies or the society we exist in but we exist, here, and now. When there are problems we must address it.

I agree. I'm not sure what the answer is. But there must be a way to examine the situation logically and try to reach some sort of conclusion as to what caused the problem, which is the first step towards finding a solution. The trouble in our society is that we haven't been all that clear or honest with ourselves in outlining the cause.

Think about it: Two men on opposite sides of an issue, only because one happens to have been born black, while the other was born white. It's like they're being lined up against each other like pawns in chess, and still, no one bothers to ask who set up the chess board in the first place?