Where is the soul?

[KeithH]

A core belief of many religions is that there exists some sort of spiritual entity in each living person, usually called a "soul".

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside? And what does the soul do, exactly?

A straightforward look at the evidence does not bode well for the existence of the soul. We can eliminate possible locations of the soul by noticing that people still retain their personalities, beliefs, etc., when they lose limbs, or when certain organs are transplanted. Eventually, we are left with the conclusion that the only important location for personality, belief, etc., is the brain.

So it appears that the soul must reside in the brain. However, it does not appear that the brain actually needs a "soul" to function. Indeed, the growing field of neuroscience has identified parts of the brain that are responsible for particular types of cognition, and there is a well-established model (i.e., the firing of interconnected neurons) that explains how such cognition takes place. In fact, such studies have even discovered parts of the brain responsible for moral judgments, and these judgments have been manipulated by such simple techniques as subjecting the relevant brain area to weak magnetic fields.

So, where is the soul, and what does it do?

 

[sandandfoam]

A core belief of many religions is that there exists some sort of spiritual entity in each living person, usually called a "soul".

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside? And what does the soul do, exactly?

A straightforward look at the evidence does not bode well for the existence of the soul. We can eliminate possible locations of the soul by noticing that people still retain their personalities, beliefs, etc., when they lose limbs, or when certain organs are transplanted. Eventually, we are left with the conclusion that the only important location for personality, belief, etc., is the brain.

So it appears that the soul must reside in the brain. However, it does not appear that the brain actually needs a "soul" to function. Indeed, the growing field of neuroscience has identified parts of the brain that are responsible for particular types of cognition, and there is a well-established model (i.e., the firing of interconnected neurons) that explains how such cognition takes place. In fact, such studies have even discovered parts of the brain responsible for moral judgments, and these judgments have been manipulated by such simple techniques as subjecting the relevant brain area to weak magnetic fields.

So, where is the soul, and what does it do?

If you picture an image in your mind where is it?

 

[Breathe]

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside?

Neither here, nor there.



The soul is not this, not that.

And what does the soul do, exactly?

That.




If you're after something less.. elusive, I guess I can try to throw you something that might help, but I doubt it will.

The soul is not the body, nor is it the mind, nor is it our cognition, nor is it out consciousness. These are temporary things.

In my view, the soul allows the ability of cognition, of discernment. It allows the ability to think, feel, know. It is behind the movement of the neurons in the brain, the thoughts in our mind, and the beating of the heart. It is not them, but something beyond. It cannot be grasped with fingers, nor measured with weights.

Where does the soul reside? You tell me. It's neither in the brain, in the heart, in the bowels, or in the body. I guess it resides within sapience, that is a quick guess.


I'm cutting this short since I'm going in the shower, and before anyone asks: I'm not going to play "argue the hell out of stuff" on this. For one, I offered my view, secondly I don't have continual access to the internet right now, so debating would be a bit.. difficult as I'm on and off for various periods, so please don't try as it won't go far.


Right. Shower time.

 

[Alex_G]

A core belief of many religions is that there exists some sort of spiritual entity in each living person, usually called a "soul".

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside? And what does the soul do, exactly?

A straightforward look at the evidence does not bode well for the existence of the soul. We can eliminate possible locations of the soul by noticing that people still retain their personalities, beliefs, etc., when they lose limbs, or when certain organs are transplanted. Eventually, we are left with the conclusion that the only important location for personality, belief, etc., is the brain.

So it appears that the soul must reside in the brain. However, it does not appear that the brain actually needs a "soul" to function. Indeed, the growing field of neuroscience has identified parts of the brain that are responsible for particular types of cognition, and there is a well-established model (i.e., the firing of interconnected neurons) that explains how such cognition takes place. In fact, such studies have even discovered parts of the brain responsible for moral judgments, and these judgments have been manipulated by such simple techniques as subjecting the relevant brain area to weak magnetic fields.

So, where is the soul, and what does it do?

I though i might post too if its ok, even though i am not a theist as you requested. I think the soul has a lot of meaning to society, as a word it describes that aspect of ourselves, that continuous and endurable identity that is so clearly apparent to us, in both ourselves and others. The mysterious and undefined dimension, that is so obviously there when its there, and so obviously absent when its absent. I think though, that religion has very little of value to say regarding it, and it would be a shame to limit discussion of such a topic to people of a purely theistic denomination.

I think we have huge amounts to learn about the brain, but through the ever increasing pace of contemporary scientific research, we are gaining more and more insight into ourselves as thinking creatures. I agree that we have a soul as human beings, and as i mentioned above, it is for me defined as that recognisable identity, characteristics and qualitative experience we seems so gifted to have. It is that part of us that is still unknown, that mystery and shadow we have yet to illuminate. What i dont believe is it's eternal endurance, and its existence beyond death. I mean to be truthful i have no idea what happens after death, no one knows, regardless of what they claim, there is no way of knowing. And i think we often get hung up on that aspect of the soul, and miss the magic and mystery of it in real life and in the now.

Its clear to me that the mechanistic workings of the brain form a synergistic system, with complexities that go beyond the mere collection of the parts. Im sure that the soul is our working nervous system as a whole, rather than it being some item or part that can be narrowed down to a certain locus. I do not know how, out of an organised system of chemical a qualitative experience can arise though. That is a haemorrhagic thought indeed!


I think the soul and sentience go hand in hand really. I think what souls are, in one respect, are those things which we see in ourselves and our surroundings and value as of the highest importance. Mirror neurons are at least in part an explanation, as these neurons are ones that fire when both the individual acts aswell as when an individual witnesses the same act. They are what underpin alot of phenomena such as empathy, disgust, sadness and so on, and in a sense connect us as beings, reinforcing and defining oneself in the process. You can see yourself, as an identity, in real time contrast with that around you, an identity that has born, grown and flourished in this world we call our own.

I think of it like a block of ice, and through our senses and connection to the world around us, we bounce data back and fore off anything and everything we come in contact with, like thousands of tiny pick-axes they fly back and fore chiselling that block of ice into its unique sculpture, a solid structure that maintains this dynamic relationship to its surroundings. That in a sense, is, what a soul is to me, that self defining connection or sentience to the world around you.

Alex

 

[Rainbow Mage]

A core belief of many religions is that there exists some sort of spiritual entity in each living person, usually called a "soul".

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside? And what does the soul do, exactly?

A straightforward look at the evidence does not bode well for the existence of the soul. We can eliminate possible locations of the soul by noticing that people still retain their personalities, beliefs, etc., when they lose limbs, or when certain organs are transplanted. Eventually, we are left with the conclusion that the only important location for personality, belief, etc., is the brain.

So it appears that the soul must reside in the brain. However, it does not appear that the brain actually needs a "soul" to function. Indeed, the growing field of neuroscience has identified parts of the brain that are responsible for particular types of cognition, and there is a well-established model (i.e., the firing of interconnected neurons) that explains how such cognition takes place. In fact, such studies have even discovered parts of the brain responsible for moral judgments, and these judgments have been manipulated by such simple techniques as subjecting the relevant brain area to weak magnetic fields.

So, where is the soul, and what does it do?

Wow this is going to be interesting, because I hold a party Buddhist view about the soul, and a partly Kemetic view. Here goes, LOL.

I take the Kemetic view that there are different types of souls. There isn't just one type. What we Kemetics call the ka, the personal soul, is the same as what the Hindus call Atman, or at least I'd venture to say it is. Then again, what we Kemetics call the ba, is probably the same as the Buddhist concept of annatta I'd say. There is no idea that the ba is a "personal" soul with a personality or self. Annatta in Buddhism is not to say there is no soul. It may be a statement about the true nature of the soul. The soul Buddhism speaks of when it says annatta (no-self) is not a personal soul. It has no personality. It's just like energy that transfers from place to place.

Was I too confusing?

Disclaimer: My views expressed above may not be the views of all Kemetics within the Kemetic Orthodox faith, and are just my syncretic beliefs.

 

[sandandfoam]

I though i might post too if its ok, even though i am not a theist as you requested. I think the soul has a lot of meaning to society, as a word it describes that aspect of ourselves, that continuous and endurable identity that is so clearly apparent to us, in both ourselves and others. The mysterious and undefined dimension, that is so obviously there when its there, and so obviously absent when its absent. I think though, that religion has very little of value to say regarding it, and it would be a shame to limit discussion of such a topic to people of a purely theistic denomination.

I think we have huge amounts to learn about the brain, but through the ever increasing pace of contemporary scientific research, we are gaining more and more insight into ourselves as thinking creatures. I agree that we have a soul as human beings, and as i mentioned above, it is for me defined as that recognisable identity, characteristics and qualitative experience we seems so gifted to have. It is that part of us that is still unknown, that mystery and shadow we have yet to illuminate. What i dont believe is it's eternal endurance, and its existence beyond death. I mean to be truthful i have no idea what happens after death, no one knows, regardless of what they claim, there is no way of knowing. And i think we often get hung up on that aspect of the soul, and miss the magic and mystery of it in real life and in the now.

Its clear to me that the mechanistic workings of the brain form a synergistic system, with complexities that go beyond the mere collection of the parts. Im sure that the soul is our working nervous system as a whole, rather than it being some item or part that can be narrowed down to a certain locus. I do not know how, out of an organised system of chemical a qualitative experience can arise though. That is a haemorrhagic thought indeed!


I think the soul and sentience go hand in hand really. I think what souls are, in one respect, are those things which we see in ourselves and our surroundings and value as of the highest importance. Mirror neurons are at least in part an explanation, as these neurons are ones that fire when both the individual acts aswell as when an individual witnesses the same act. They are what underpin alot of phenomena such as empathy, disgust, sadness and so on, and in a sense connect us as beings, reinforcing and defining oneself in the process. You can see yourself, as an identity, in real time contrast with that around you, an identity that has born, grown and flourished in this world we call our own.

I think of it like a block of ice, and through our senses and connection to the world around us, we bounce data back and fore off anything and everything we come in contact with, like thousands of tiny pick-axes they fly back and fore chiselling that block of ice into its unique sculpture, a solid structure that maintains this dynamic relationship to its surroundings. That in a sense, is, what a soul is to me, that self defining connection or sentience to the world around you.

Alex

I have no frubals - great post

 

[Rainbow Mage]

As for where is the soul? Depends which soul you're speaking of. Specify please and refer to above post.

 

[Alex_G]

I have no frubals - great post

Thanks man

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

The soul is nowhere as I define it because it is not a thing but a function it would be like going to the Microsoft corperation and asking where is Windows?

 

[Pegg]

Your whole living body is your soul according to the bible

your spirit is the life force in that body. simple.

 

[Rationality]

Your whole living body is your soul according to the bible

your spirit is the life force in that body. simple.

But that doesn't make much sense, because that would mean that people who are missing limbs have less of a soul?!


In my opinion, I think the soul is something of a higher dimension that would be hard for us to understand.

 

[Pegg]

But that doesn't make much sense, because that would mean that people who are missing limbs have less of a soul?!


In my opinion, I think the soul is something of a higher dimension that would be hard for us to understand.

im just saying what the bible says the soul is... its the living person or living animal.

SOS means 'save our souls' ... but it doesnt mean, save the mystical part of me, it means 'save my person' or 'save my living body...my life'

there is no point believing in something that does not exist imo.

 

[Sunstone]

The soul is located behind the left knee. I'm sure of it.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Your whole living body is your soul according to the bible

your spirit is the life force in that body. simple.

What is that "life force" made of? Is it a ghost in the machine that possessed some Newtonian force effect on your arm as you swing it like balls on a Newton's cradle?

 

[Pegg]

What is that "life force" made of? Is it a ghost in the machine that possessed some Newtonian force effect on your arm as you swing it like balls on a Newton's cradle?

the lifeforce is spirit... the greek word pneuma is tanslated as spirit. The primary meaning of this greek word is 'breath/wind' . So the force of life within us is put their by the creator and when we die its that same life force which is said to 'return to God'

And its the same idea in the hebrew scriptures.
About the creation of the man genesis says 'God breathed into his nostrils the breath (Heb. ruach) of life and the man came to be a living soul (Heb. nephesh)' Soul literally means 'breather' in hebrew. So his living body is what makes him a soul.

 

[mitchellmckain]

1 Cor 15:44, if we have a physical body then we have a spiritual body (Standard Revised). Or putting it back in context 1 Corinthians 15:42-50 using the International version:

The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

A physicist like me who reads this will tend to conclude that the spiritual is outside the mathematical relationships (including time and space) known as the laws of physics, for that is the only way that something can be imperishable.

 

[Pegg]

1 Cor 15:44, if we have a physical body then we have a spiritual body (Standard Revised). Or putting it back in context 1 Corinthians 15:42-50 using the International version:



A physicist like me who reads this will tend to conclude that the spiritual is outside the mathematical relationships (including time and space) known as the laws of physics, for that is the only way that something can be imperishable.

paul was speaking about those who are resurrected to heavenly life....and not everyone is going to be resurrected to heavenly life.

 

[chinu]

My question to theists on this board, is where does this soul reside? And what does the soul do, exactly?

For Example: If you are looking towards a beautiful car and think or say, Ah! it would be Mine.

In the above example:
The power of looking is given by "Soul",
The power of "Ah! it would be Mine" is given by "Mind", ( But mind itself is not concious )

The mixture of "Mind" & "Soul" is known as "Conciousness" in body

_/\_Chinu.

 

[mitchellmckain]

paul was speaking about those who are resurrected to heavenly life....and not everyone is going to be resurrected to heavenly life.

I know that this is what you believe but I don't think that this is what the Bible says. What it says in Revelations and the OT is that everyone is resurrected and then faces judgement.

But more importantly, Paul asks and answers the following question: "With what kind of body are we raised? Paul says it is a "spiritual body". And thus 1 Corinthians 15 supports a different point of view than yours and other physical resurrectionists. Because then resurrection is something that happens to the spirit not the physical body. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" it says in 1 Cor 15. This makes sense because God is spirit not flesh, and so if you want to be with God then it will be in spirit not flesh.

This goes hand in hand with all of the places in the Bible where it talks of two kinds of life and two kinds of death, like when God says to Adam that on the day you eat of the fruit you will die, and when Jesus says, "let the dead bury their own dead".

I have no interest in an eternal life in this flesh and I have no interest in a god who has nothing but that to offer. That sounds an awful lot like promises of the devil and the myths of vampires to me. I believe in an infinite God who made this universe as a womb in which life can begin and from which we are born into much bigger world than this.

oh and by the way... The threats of your god to dispose of me (end my existence) is an empty threat, for frankly to me oblivion would be preferable to your rather uninspired vision of heaven. But I don't think that sums up our options at all. It has to make you wonder when most people can imagine places better than what your god has to offer.

 

[Pegg]

I know that this is what you believe but I don't think that this is what the Bible says. What it says in Revelations and the OT is that everyone is resurrected and then faces judgement.

yep thats what the bible says. Although Revelations does speak of 2 resurrections. So the fact that we are specifically told about 2 different resurrections must mean that they are somehow different to each other. And notice how John says that anyone having part in the 1st resurrection are happy....
Revelation 20:4-6 And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection"
His words imply here that not everyone is going to have part in this resurrection.

But more importantly, Paul asks and answers the following question: "With what kind of body are we raised? Paul says it is a "spiritual body". And thus 1 Corinthians 15 supports a different point of view than yours and other physical resurrectionists.

I believe this is the first resurrection that John mentions at Rev 20:4-6. This is the resurrection to heavenly life to rule with Christ as kings and priests. According to Rev14:1-4 they are the 'firstfruits' "And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. ...3 ... who have been bought from the earth. 4 ...These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb"

Because then resurrection is something that happens to the spirit not the physical body. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" it says in 1 Cor 15. This makes sense because God is spirit not flesh, and so if you want to be with God then it will be in spirit not flesh.

yes and that would ring true for anyone who is part of the first resurrection who are going to be with Christ in heaven....they have to have a spiritual body to be there, so yes you are correct on that.

But ask yourself this... if they are going to heaven to 'rule as kings and priests', who are they to rule over?