Where does the Quran say Muhammad is the last Messenger of God?

[sun rise]

I do not need to go to anyone. I can access nine translations of Quran on internet.

An aside note: there are many more than 9 here: Qur'an

 

[2ndpillar]

It's true, read Ibn Kathir account of the Jews. Historically Yemen for example were Jews. They came to Islam.

Ibn Kathir was born in the year 1300, near Damascus. Like all hadiths, his firsthand knowledge of Yemen would be far from being a witness of the situation. HIs view seems to be simply kill the kufir, and forget about understanding the Qur'an.
"Ibn Kathir shares many similarities with his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, such as rejecting logical exegesis of Qur'an, advocating a militant jihad and adhering to the renewal of one singular Islamic ummah"
Ibn Kathir - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

It is irrelevant again. Is this a Arabic pronunciation thread, or are we talking about what the verse is talking about?
The English and Arabic have different vowel sounds. But I am just coming to closest pronunciation I can, because I thought our friend may not read Arabic.
We Refer to the Quran and Dictionary for the meaning of Qom, or قوم.

Is the pronunciation all you saw?? You picked the only point you could respond to with this rhetoric. But see, you should know every thing because you are the master and lord of the arabic language because you told the Muslim she doesnt know arabic. Mate, you dont know the language from Adam.

Again, dont say "we" because you and the rest of them who are pseudo scholars in the language and every single scripture in the world are a very very very fringe group. Others are not like that.

Or in this verse:

"Surely We sent Noah to his people. ˹He said,˺ “Indeed, I am sent to you with a clear warning" 11:25

People in this verse is ghom, which is the same word used in the verse 47:38.

So, in the Quran, it is a People, who a Messenger is sent to, for guidance. Then most of them rejected the Messenger.

Now that is absolutely irrelevant. Of course since you cannot respond directly you have to do this cut and paste.

 

[firedragon]

Everything in your post is irrelevant my friend.
You are free to tell what you think the verse is about.

Not necessary. You told someone else that you wished they knew arabic. When questioned, since you dont have any language knowledge all you can do is say its irrelevant.

Again, Godly knowledge is not needed to have a decent discussion. But pseudo Godly knowledge in a language, while telling others "you dont know the language" is dishonesty.

Now respond saying "its irrelevant".

Try and find a better answer.

 

[firedragon]

Since I do not know much about other scriptures I do not make any claims about what has been corrupted and not. I can only go by what Baha'u'llah wrote regarding corruption of the scripture as noted below. It was very general, and it was the interpretations of the scriptures that have been corrupted by man, not the scriptures themselves. These misinterpretations led to false beliefs such as the belief that Jesus is God.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

I can respect that. See, I dont have to agree with your theology, but at least I can respect you for not demeaning other peoples knowledge of something while you have no knowledge on that particular subject whatsoever.

 

[firedragon]

I do not need to go to anyone. I can access nine translations of Quran on internet.

Oh Aup. Your source of knowledge is anti-islamic websites. Thats as obvious as daylight during the day. One day you cut and pasted a verse which translation is only available in a Islam hating website. That particular translation was not authentic, it was a made up bogus translation.

So its only obvious.

 

[firedragon]

Ibn Kathir was born in the year 1300, near Damascus. Like all hadiths, his firsthand knowledge of Yemen would be far from being a witness of the situation. HIs view seems to be simply kill the kufir, and forget about understanding the Qur'an.
"Ibn Kathir shares many similarities with his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, such as rejecting logical exegesis of Qur'an, advocating a militant jihad and adhering to the renewal of one singular Islamic ummah"
Ibn Kathir - Wikipedia

Lets see this jumping from one topic to another trick. Ill tell you what, I will show you how to practice your tactic. Shall we?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

This is a cut and paste, just to show you how irrelevant topics can be brought in with no relevance just to derail any thread like you do.

GO ahead. Lets play this game.

 

[firedragon]

Both "last" and "seal" are used in various translations. "Seal" is more poetic and invokes an image of a seal put on a document that is finished.

No. that's false. Seal is the direct word for word translation. Last is the hermeneutics. Its very simple really. I was telling someone in this very thread on the meaning of Hatham un nabiiyiin. Ill give you an example. Hatham ul Qur'an means when you finish reading it. The End. The latter part of a sentence is referred by the same word because its the end or the sentence.

Seal means end or last. But the word for word translation is "Seal". Its not just being poetic. This seal in Arabic is used not like a seal on a document but more like a seal one would put on an envelope when its shut and you put the wax and seal it. That is one "image" as you said. This seal could also mean virginity or hymen. this seal could also mean your hearing has been put a seal upon which means you cannot hear any more. Done. Dusted.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not necessary. You told someone else that you wished they knew arabic. When questioned, since you dont have any language knowledge all you can do is say its irrelevant.

Again, Godly knowledge is not needed to have a decent discussion. But pseudo Godly knowledge in a language, while telling others "you dont know the language" is dishonesty.

Now respond saying "its irrelevant".

Try and find a better answer.

I may be wrong, but I have always thought InvestigateTruth was from Iran and English was the 2nd language? I thought that, as the way he writes his English is familiar with me from people with an Iranian background.

Though I must admit I have never asked.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

I may be wrong, but I have always thought InvestigateTruth was from Iran and English was the 2nd language? I thought that, as the way he writes his English is familiar with me from people with an Iranian background.

Though I must admit I have never asked.

Regards Tony

I am not going to address where someone is from Tony. Because I know scholars from Iran who are amazing. I won't mention names here, but there are Phd's in sociology of religion who have turned world of theological scholarship upside down. Very good.

I dont know the Iranian language. I can read, but cannot understand. Very very different to Arabic. Thats not the point.

Peace.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We do not correct them but we realize that many of their beliefs are not correct, since they have been corrupted by man.

That is what I have always said. For you, all other religions are corrupted. That will not endear Bahais to believers of all other religions. Your talk of love therefore, rings hollow.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh Aup. Your source of knowledge is anti-islamic websites.

That is not true, Firedragon. On the contrary, honest to Allah, I go only to Islamic sites when there is a need, and never to an anti-Islamic site. But what they say does not match with my views.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is what I have always said. For you, all other religions are corrupted. That will not endear Bahais to believers of all other religions. Your talk of love therefore, rings hollow.

Just because the leaders of some religions misinterpreted scriptures and created doctrines that does not mean the religions as revealed were corrupt. I cannot agree with man-made doctrines that I believe are false because that would be dishonest.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I cannot agree with man-made doctrines that I believe are false because that would be dishonest.

If you cannot agree and they too cannot agree (why would they agree when you are calling them corrupted?), then God's purpose and the mission to Bahaollah is squarely defeated. Then, why the talk of love, brotherhood and peace? Let us keep fighting. Sharpen your knives, don't fight with blunted knives. That is why I say that if there is a God, he just blunders around and can achieve nothing. Let the new religions and sects; LDS, Bahai and Ahmadiyyas, join the fight and enjoy.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you cannot agree and they too cannot agree (why would they agree when you are calling them corrupted?), then God's purpose and the mission to Bahaollah is squarely defeated. Then, why the talk of love, brotherhood and peace? Let us keep fighting. Sharpen your knives, don't fight with blunted knives. That is why I say that if there is a God, he just blunders around and can achieve nothing. Let the new religions and sects; LDS, Bahai and Ahmadiyyas join the fight and enjoy.

I am not calling them corrupted, Baha'u'llah said that, but that was in a particular context..
Just because we do not agree that does not mean we have to fight. I don't agree with atheists but I do not fight with them.

 

[sun rise]

Lets see this jumping from one topic to another trick. Ill tell you what, I will show you how to practice your tactic. Shall we?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abomile deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 )

This is a cut and paste, just to show you how irrelevant topics can be brought in with no relevance just to derail any thread like you do.

GO ahead. Lets play this game.

Beautiful. I have one addition

Jesus brings war

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

 

[firedragon]

That is not true, Firedragon. On the contrary, honest to Allah, I go only to Islamic sites when there is a need, and never to an anti-Islamic site. But what they say does not match with my views.

Alright alright. Cheers.

 

[loverofhumanity]

yet LOH, you defy this truth Muhammed taught. And you are not responding to a single question holistically. Honestly, you cherry pick from even a single post and respond absolutely vaguely.

You claim you have studied the Qur'an and every other scripture "In-depth", but cannot answer a single question directly. You challenged Muslims to not understand the Qur'an in arabic, and you were asked very basic questions on the arabic of what constitutes the prophet Muhammed to be the last, but you are still unable to answer. Not a single one.

Unbelievable.

The topic was always regarding Muhammad not being the last Messenger and I showed many quotes from the Quran supporting this argument. I believe an honest and unbiased look at the verses of the Quran will show this to be true but people are free to disagree.

When Moses appeared Pharaoh and the priests opposed Him, in Jesus day it was the Pharisees and in Muhammad’s, the Meccans. So whenever a Holy One appears from God He is opposed by the former religion. It’s just history repeating itself with the appearance of the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

So we believe in Muhammad and the Quran but both the Bab and Baha’u’llah are foretold in that Book.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The problem is that the Word of God
is so easily faked, and, so often is.

The corruption of the Word of God is not that any words are effaced as there are always other copies to expose such fraud. The real corruption is in changing the meaning in a way that is not consistent with the original.

For example to promote terrorism is a form of corrupting the Quran because it is against pre meditated murder.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God won't do sophistry as a test. He will do something clear like Ghadeer declaration of Ali (a) Welayat as a test. He will do something clear like tell us to obey Ulil-Amr (4:59) and emphasize we too be given from us in context of 4:54 an Ahlulbayt (a). God is clear, always, and the test is simple, be sincere and accept the truth.

The test of Welayat of Ahlulbayt (a) just takes sincerity and submission to the clear signs. Just as Bani-Israel were given clear proofs, but disagreed despite knowledge.

Every Sunni knows Ali (a) is an Authority by God, they are just stubborn and will pay the price for their rebellion. The way they turn away from clear signs in sunnah and Quran is unacceptable and won't benefit them to the least in the next world.

The sorcery of Iblis and his propaganda does not make it easy. But it's at the end clear. There is 13 Surahs with reward mentioned to contextualize what is meant, and 42:23 is also very clear to love the family of Mohammad (s) especially when context of how reward is used with respect to mission of Messengers is used in Quran. It's about defending their case and not that they actually seek a reward. That and Quran has emphasized on the concept of chosen family all over it's pages.

Allah (swt) wants us to submit to what is clear and defeat the Waswas of Satan - the sorcery that pushes humanity to play games with the Quran.

Unfortunately for you, your method, has to be relying on what is unclear, since the clear of Quran refutes your religion.

I can’t really say what God will or will not do but He chose a murderer and stammerer to be a Messenger in Moses and the Son of a carpenter also in Jesus, so He does what He chooses as He is God, and our duty is but submission to His Will.