Where does all the weirdness come from?

[Ellen Brown]

Can I ask why the KJV? There are so many good more up to date translations that show up flaws in many of the KJV's renderings.
In the light of better understanding of the original languages, perhaps you would understand more by checking other versions and comparing. Strongs is also a good resource.

Over 40 years ago, I was advised by an ASA missionary to choose one translation and to learn it well. He said to pay attention to passages that were challenged, and to research them, and to make up my own mind. Very early on, I learned not to trust Pastors and such. That has made me work harder to learn things and I am happy of that. The Mormons say that Paid Pastors are (Help me out here Mormons) Witchcraft ?? I vowed to never become a Pew Sitter. Even if I married a Pastor, he might preach on Sunday with bruises from his transgressions.

 

[Deeje]

Over 40 years ago, I was advised by an ASA missionary to choose one translation and to learn it well. He said to pay attention to passages that were challenged, and to research them, and to make up my own mind. Very early on, I learned not to trust Pastors and such. That has made me work harder to learn things and I am happy of that. The Mormons say that Paid Pastors are (Help me out here Mormons) Witchcraft ?? I vowed to never become a Pew Sitter.

So that advice from one person shaped your whole approach to Bible study?

When I first started my study of the Bible over 45 years ago, all I had was an illustrated KJV that my grandmother gave me when I was 10 years old. I used to sit and gaze at the pictures for ages because they seemed to resonate with me more than the words did. But as I got older, the words took on greater meaning.

I prayed the Lord's prayer every week in church and at the age of about 16, I realized that I had no idea what I was praying for. What was I going to church for if they couldn't teach me something as fundamental as what "God's Kingdom" is and how it will bring about the doing of God's will "on earth as it is in heaven"? In my late teens I finally left the church system and went searching for God elsewhere....but I didn't find him.

In my early 20's, after a lot of excursions into different faiths, I am pleased to say that He found me when I answered a knock on my door. I had never lost my belief in God or respect for his word, but I completely lost faith in the church system. Also I had just lost my father to a heart attack at the age of 52. I was looking for answers.

The paid clergy were up there as one of my beefs.
The other was the fact that whenever our nation was at war, the church was supportive of the conflict and even encouraged the soldiers who participated as if Jesus had never said to 'love our enemies". There was just so much hypocrisy.
And all the dead apparently 'went to heaven to be with the Lord'.....but no one could ever tell me why that felt so wrong.

As time went on, and the more that technology advanced, various Bible translations became available online, so I would paw over those translations for comparison and I discovered Strong's Concordance, which gave me the meanings of words in their original form. What emerged from that exercise was the way the KJV (and some other versions) rendered various verses, especially those related to the trinity, that exhibited bias in wording that were not accurately translated.

There are so many superior translations now that don't lose the meaning of words because they don't rely on archaic English, which is no longer in use. The KJV is a dinosaur that needs to become extinct IMO.

Its funny that you should talk about "pew sitters" because that so well describes the church goers who turned up at my church every week but left their "Christianity" at the door on their way out. "Christianity" was something they 'did' once a week, not something they were 24/7.

Even if I married a Pastor, he might preach on Sunday with bruises from his transgressions.

Are you saying that you would resort to violence if he messed up? Really?

 

[Ellen Brown]

So that advice from one person shaped your whole approach to Bible study?

When I first started my study of the Bible over 45 years ago, all I had was an illustrated KJV that my grandmother gave me when I was 10 years old. I used to sit and gaze at the pictures for ages because they seemed to resonate with me more than the words did. But as I got older, the words took on greater meaning.

I prayed the Lord's prayer every week in church and at the age of about 16, I realized that I had no idea what I was praying for. What was I going to church for if they couldn't teach me something as fundamental as what "God's Kingdom" is and how it will bring about the doing of God's will "on earth as it is in heaven"? In my late teens I finally left the church system and went searching for God elsewhere....but I didn't find him.

In my early 20's, after a lot of excursions into different faiths, I am pleased to say that He found me when I answered a knock on my door. I had never lost my belief in God or respect for his word, but I completely lost faith in the church system. Also I had just lost my father to a heart attack at the age of 52. I was looking for answers.

The paid clergy were up there as one of my beefs.
The other was the fact that whenever our nation was at war, the church was supportive of the conflict and even encouraged the soldiers who participated as if Jesus had never said to 'love our enemies". There was just so much hypocrisy.
And all the dead apparently 'went to heaven to be with the Lord'.....but no one could ever tell me why that felt so wrong.

As time went on, and the more that technology advanced, various Bible translations became available online, so I would paw over those translations for comparison and I discovered Strong's Concordance, which gave me the meanings of words in their original form. What emerged from that exercise was the way the KJV (and some other versions) rendered various verses, especially those related to the trinity, that exhibited bias in wording that were not accurately translated.

There are so many superior translations now that don't lose the meaning of words because they don't rely on archaic English, which is no longer in use. The KJV is a dinosaur that needs to become extinct IMO.

Its funny that you should talk about "pew sitters" because that so well describes the church goers who turned up at my church every week but left their "Christianity" at the door on their way out. "Christianity" was something they 'did' once a week, not something they were 24/7.



Are you saying that you would resort to violence if he messed up? Really?

I'm not married, so he's safe.

The KJV can go extinct at the same time.

 

[ChristineM]

My own take on the question is that much of the strangeness is from the shaitan. (satan) and done to persecute believers.

Come to find out, when I started coming to RF, I didn't know that half of it. Now I think I'll just go back to bed and pull the covers over my head.

What weirdness specifically? Most of the local weirdness emanates from our house.

 

[Jane.Doe]

The Mormons say that Paid Pastors are (Help me out here Mormons) Witchcraft ??

Mormon help here

Speaking from the LDS perspective: Having a preacher receive a wage is not automatically an evil thing. However, whenever money comes into play there is temptation and an avenue for things to go wrong. For example-- the financial incentive to preach what people want to hear (pressure which can come from either side). So it's a temptation to be aware of. I will readily say majority of professional preachers I know are very admirable upright individuals, in way in it for the money.

We LDS have a 100% lay clergy at the local level, which is a source of pride for LDS-- we work hard each to keep the congregation running (it's ton of work, and a special set of headaches).

 

[Katzpur]

The Mormons say that Paid Pastors are (Help me out here Mormons) Witchcraft ??

100% false.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Mormon help here

Speaking from the LDS perspective: Having a preacher receive a wage is not automatically an evil thing. However, whenever money comes into play there is temptation and an avenue for things to go wrong. For example-- the financial incentive to preach what people want to hear (pressure which can come from either side). So it's a temptation to be aware of. I will readily say majority of professional preachers I know are very admirable upright individuals, in way in it for the money.

We LDS have a 100% lay clergy at the local level, which is a source of pride for LDS-- we work hard each to keep the congregation running (it's ton of work, and a special set of headaches).

Thank you. I am X Mormon but don't hold any grudges. I found myself unable to support most of Temple Doctrine, Deep Doctrine, and exclusivism. I too think that the Ward level Mormons are sweet and loving. SL Leadership tried to punish me for a situation that was not voluntary and not my fault. They would not leave off that, so I left, and yes I do miss it. I am working on forgiving them, but doubt that I'll ever trust them.

 

[Katzpur]

Thank you. I am X Mormon but don't hold any grudges. I found myself unable to support most of Temple Doctrine, Deep Doctrine, and exclusivism. I too think that the Ward level Mormons are sweet and loving. SL Leadership tried to punish me for a situation that was not voluntary and not my fault. They would not leave off that, so I left, and yes I do miss it. I am working on forgiving them, but doubt that I'll ever trust them.

@Jane.Doe, if Ellen doesn't hold any grudges, doesn't it make you wonder why she has referred to the Church as "an ungodly cult" and why she has said that the Church "leaders are right out of Hell"? Sounds very much like a grudge to me, and not only a grudge but a huge exaggeration. As if little old Ellen is anywhere near important enough for the Salt Lake leadership to spend 5 minutes of their time even talking about.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Thank you. I am X Mormon but don't hold any grudges. I found myself unable to support most of Temple Doctrine, Deep Doctrine, and exclusivism. I too think that the Ward level Mormons are sweet and loving. SL Leadership tried to punish me for a situation that was not voluntary and not my fault. They would not leave off that, so I left, and yes I do miss it. I am working on forgiving them, but doubt that I'll ever trust them.

@Jane.Doe, if Ellen doesn't hold any grudges, doesn't it make you wonder why she has referred to the Church as "an ungodly cult" and why she has said that the Church "leaders are right out of Hell"? Sounds very much like a grudge to me, and not only a grudge but a huge exaggeration. As if little old Ellen is anywhere near important enough for the Salt Lake leadership to spend 5 minutes of their time even talking about.

Ellen, I am sympathetic to a person have run in's with local leadership-- people are human and make mistakes. Though Katz's does bring up some good points too.

 

[Milton Platt]

My own take on the question is that much of the strangeness is from the shaitan. (satan) and done to persecute believers.

Come to find out, when I started coming to RF, I didn't know that half of it. Now I think I'll just go back to bed and pull the covers over my head.

Can you be a little less vague? Alternatively, can I join you under the covers? I’ll bring a flashlight and some cookies.....

 

[Ellen Brown]

For many years, I have studied Christianity's books, and Islam's books. I've really only just started investigating Judaism, and some beliefs that pre-date it. I'm nonplussed by what I learn about all these belief systems. That's the reason that I have distanced myself from conventional religion and now just feel I am an Abrahamic Religionist. I don't reject the myriad numbers of other belief systems because I don't know anything about them.

 

[crossfire]

My own take on the question is that much of the strangeness is from the shaitan. (satan) and done to persecute believers.

Come to find out, when I started coming to RF, I didn't know that half of it. Now I think I'll just go back to bed and pull the covers over my head.

One possible explanation:

 

[sayak83]

My own take on the question is that much of the strangeness is from the shaitan. (satan) and done to persecute believers.

Come to find out, when I started coming to RF, I didn't know that half of it. Now I think I'll just go back to bed and pull the covers over my head.

That's why is like dogs and cats more.