Where are the Dead?

[Trailblazer]

You're welcome. I have another trip planned for next week, but this time I know exactly where I'm going. I'm traveling with my husband on a business trip, and we will be staying at a hotel where both the living and the dead remember me. I like staying there because both the employees and the spirits know me by name and have welcomed me back in the past. If I recall correctly, this hotel was the subject of my very first paranormal investigation thread.

I hope you have a fun trip, but I have to admit I am a little jealous.
I really miss traveling and I miss my husband. I will not be traveling as long as I am alone, since I do not travel alone.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You quoted one verse from the entire Bible. I can find verses that contradict that verse.

To be honest, I consider the dispute between Christians and Baha'is (or Christians and Muslims, or Christians and Christians) over the correct interpretation of the Bible to be an additional reason for me to doubt its authenticity, as well as any Christian interpretation of it. I don't believe that Christians have a monopoly on how it should be properly interpreted. In light of the fact that they rarely agree with each other, I won't accept their preferred beliefs or their preferred biblical interpretation of what they believe happens to people after they die. The first and primary reason for me to doubt the Bible, however, is the forty-four years of firsthand experience with earthbound human spirits that plainly contradict what it teaches about death and the afterlife. The second reason is the past sixteen years of direct encounters that I've had with the earthbound spirits of Christians. There is also a third reason, and that is the direct encounters I've had with earthbound spirits who were irreligious or non-Christian theists who were in shock that there is an afterlife. Frankly, I believe that it would be profoundly dishonest of me to continue believing the Bible's depictions of the afterlife given that my lifelong experiences have been in direct conflict with what it teaches about death and the afterlife. In fact, there are no Christians who can persuade me that their beliefs about the afterlife or the Bible are completely accurate or the only acceptable viewpoint. In my opinion, any Christians who attempt to persuade me are just wasting their time.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I hope you have a fun trip,

Thanks.

but I have to admit I am a little jealous. I really miss traveling and I miss my husband. I will not be traveling as long as I am alone, since I do not travel alone.

I am sorry to hear that. It has never been my intention to make you feel sad whenever I share my experiences with you.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am sorry to hear that. It has never been my intention to make you feel sad whenever I share my experiences with you.

No, it was not my intention to make you feel bad. Everyone who has a long-time spouse makes me feel sad, but I cannot avoid everyone!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No, it was not my intention to make you feel bad. Everyone who has a long-time spouse makes me feel sad, but I cannot avoid everyone!

My heart goes out to you, my friend. I hope that you will be able to contact your late husband soon. I believe it will bring you both some closure.

 

[YoursTrue]

I haven't seen the translations recently either. A couple of the groups I'm in remind me of my experiences on forums because some proselytizing-prone members have to be reminded that their beliefs are just their personal opinions and shouldn't be stated as if they are the absolute truth. But on Facebook, I prefer private groups that have zero tolerance for preaching and proselytizing. It eliminates the drama of proselytizing-prone members trying to impose their religious beliefs on other people or accusing others of being under demonic influence. In my opinion, it can be a positive experience to discuss and learn about diverse religions without the constant presence of disgruntled people insisting that these religions are false because they aren't Abrahamic.

Here's a wonderment I have: there are those here who claim to have a religion, go to church, yet say the Bible is filled with myths, including asserting that Jesus or Moses likely did not exist as written. I do not recall seeing these ones say they do or don't believe the accounts by posters such as yourself relating encounters with spirits. They stay out of the discussion, yet claim to be Christian, but then go on to say they don't think Jesus or Moses really existed as written.

 

[YoursTrue]

My heart goes out to you, my friend. I hope that you will be able to contact your late husband soon. I believe it will bring you both some closure.

Do you get paid for contacting dead persons? I am not advising it, but then I wonder why you just don't do it for trailblazer who is apparently so desirous of contacting her dead husband who she says reaches out to her through the tv. I'd think he'd put his picture on there too. I had an employer some time ago who was a lawyer and when he learned that I believe the world will come to an end as we know it he said a bit jokingly why doesn't God announce it on TV? And I told him that God doesn't have to do that, he has warned him already.

 

[Muffled]

Of course, you believe what you perceive to be God telling you, just as other Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and a plethora of other Christians believe what they perceive God telling them, despite the fact that their beliefs contradict each other as well as your beliefs and biblical interpretation.

I believe most people do not hear from God and are only expressing what they were taught or what their minds are able to perceive and that is why they are wrong about so many things.

 

[Muffled]

That makes sense, because if a person was a male or a female in this life they will probably remember being a male or female when they cross over to the spiritual world where there is no physical gender.

I always represented myself as male when I was in Heaven.

 

[Muffled]

I haven't studied the scriptures.

I believe that isn't necessary if you are willing to listen to teachers and require the teaching to be rational. If you receive Jesus as Lord and Savior then He will be your teacher and He is the best you can get.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe most people do not hear from God and are only expressing what they were taught or what their minds are able to perceive and that is why they are wrong about so many things.

Perhaps others will assume that the same is true of you.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Baha'is do not believe in Satan or evil spirits.

Demon Possession, the Devil and True Exorcism

Who can forget the movie The Exorcist? I wish I could forget it! In a very real sense, I already have—allow me to explain.

bahaiteachings.org

As I stated in another thread, I appreciate you sharing your beliefs about demons and Satan. You helped me realize that my belief about demonic entities was the last remnant of my Christian indoctrination that I needed to reject and abandon. So thank you for that, my friend. However, it is somewhat ironic that a thread intended to prove the existence of demons also contributed to this realization and my decision to finally abandon this belief and let it go.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Pay careful attention to what he said:
King Solomon, who was known for his God-given wisdom, wrote at Ecclesiastes 12:7 B that one's spirit is a neuter "it" .
No afterlife ( being more alive after death than before death ) for a genderless spirit (it).
Any future life for the dead now lies in God's safe hands via a future resurrection - Acts 24:15; John 6:40,44
@URAVIP2ME believes in the resurrection of dead bodies from their graves since he believes that is what Acts 24:15 means. He believes that "raise him up at the last day" in John 6:40, 44 means raise up dead bodies from their graves on the last day. He believes that these new physical bodies will live as men and women forever on earth, like he believes was intended for Adam and Eve. That is what JWs have been taught by their church to believe. They have been programmed to believe it like a robot. According to their beliefs, nobody goes to heaven except a few select people. No matter that the entire Bible says that Christians go to heaven when they die. The JWs believe they know better than all the other Christians who believe they are going to heaven. These beliefs are based upon a misinterpretation of a few Bible verses that they cling to for dear life.
JWs WANT to live on earth forever, so they completely ignore what they don't WANT to believe that is right in the Bible, where it says that after the physical body dies the soul (which is the spirit) is transformed and continues to exist forever as a spiritual body in the Kingdom of God which is in heaven, not on earth.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why it needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

Right, we will Not all die. Please notice that the great crowd of the sheep at the time of Matthew 25:31-34,37 who can remain alive on Earth and be here on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming thousand-year day of governing over Earth . Those meek other sheep can inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26. ( Inherit everlasting life on Earth )

On the other hand, the ' little flock ' (Luke 12:32' John 10:16) will have a heavenly resurrection as Jesus did to the heavens.
They have that first or earlier resurrection as mentioned at Rev. 20:6
They will serve with Jesus as both kings and priests over earthly subjects / citizens of God's kingdom - Psalms 72:8,12-14; Rev. 5:9-10
Since like Jesus they will have resurrected ' spirit bodies ' they will exist forever in the heavens with Jesus.
These are the saints / holy ones - Daniel 7:18 - like the people of Luke 22:28-30.

Yes, the ' spirit ' ( IT ) Ecclesiastes 12:7 .... God who gave "" it ""
Please notice one's spirit is a genderless ' it '
Just as a car or a ship is an "it" sometimes called as a 'she' but they remain a neuter " it ".

Jesus does Not need a dead body in the grave in order to physically resurrect a person.
There are No remains for those buried at sea, or ones who were bombed.
What we need to be is in God's memory book.
Remember too: No one who died before Jesus was offered heaven. - John 3:13
That covers ALL from Genesis to Malachi and then some.
ALL those named in Jehovah's ' Hall of Fame " ( Hebrews chapter 11 ) are still sleeping in death.
Sleeping in death until Resurrection Day ( Jesus' 1,000 year day ) - John 6:40,44

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think the atoms will find new homes.

ALL the people Jesus resurrected were resurrected with healthy / new atoms.
So, it would stand to reason that on Resurrection Day ( Jesus' 1,000 yr. day ) that the resurrected will have new atoms but still be the same person as in personality and memory just without sickness - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 33:24.... Isaiah chapter 35.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I really miss traveling and I miss my husband. I will not be traveling as long as I am alone, since I do not travel alone.

Although death is an enemy (1st Cor. 15:24-26) Jesus gives us the Resurrection Hope (Acts 24:15) that we can be re-united with loved ones.
In the meantime, we can travel on the narrow road, that 'spiritual road' that leads to everlasting life - Matthew chapter 7.
Everlasting life beginning with Resurrection Day (John 6:40,44) when Jesus will resurrect our loved ones during that 1,000 year day.
May our Heavenly Father (YHWH) gently uplift any sorrow you feel through prayer to God in Jesus name, biblical study and good association.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........... You helped me realize that my belief about demonic entities was the last remnant of my Christian indoctrination that I needed to reject and abandon...........

Seems as if the demons disagree with you - Luke 4:41 - for the demons believe and they tremble - James 2:19
One of Satan's tricks to have people believe he and his demons do Not exist.
Thus, one feels that one does Not need to be accountable to any Higher Authority than one's self.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Seems as if the demons disagree with you - Luke 4:41 - for the demons believe and they tremble - James 2:19
One of Satan's tricks to have people believe he and his demons do Not exist.
Thus, one feels that one does Not need to be accountable to any Higher Authority than one's self.

You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but you shouldn't expect me or other non-Christians to believe as you do, be persuaded to believe as you do, or accept your preferred interpretation of the Bible. To be honest, I don't care what you believe as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on me.

 

[Whateverist]

I know you're an atheist, so I don't expect you to believe me when I tell you what I believe regarding the afterlife.

That applies to me as well. I don't/can't believe what you do but I don't find it ridiculous that many do. Many traditions have beliefs regarding what becomes of us after death, and traditions have withstood the test of time having played a role in human lives which have helped to shape the way we are now. I have no place to stand from which to critique such beliefs. But if do not find they are necessary anymore for everyone, I know at least one person who is fine without it. But as usual there is something about the cosmos and ourselves for which it is a good fit.

I believe animacy and consciousness are ontological primitives serving as the ground of being for everything that 'the one' or nature has individuated into existence. But I don't think its actions are motivated the way ours are nor are they strategically aimed toward pre established aims. It might comforting for some to imagine God as being somehow person like but I find that doubtful in that the one has brought about every creature and object, not just people. Thinking that we are the only flower that matters to the One seems pretty narcissistic on the face of it. A belief that is as attractive to many as it is absurd to others.

So I can imagine this animating force of nature where animacy and consciousness are abundant, when it can no longer maintain my form will simply be re channeled into new forms which will also "only ride their year"* just as we will. There is a sense in which we are distinct individuals and another in which we are a local manifestation of something greater. I believe that which sets us apart from
everything else will end but that which unites us will go on, and that feels fitting. Nature is abundant. New forms will develop along their own lines just as we did. I don't think the death of all my quirks will be such as great loss so long as the river itself goes on flowing.

*Source of the Cummings quote:

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one:​

by E. E. Cummings​

one’s not half two. It’s two are halves of one:
which halves reintegrating,shall occur
no death and any quantity;but than
all numerable mosts the actual more**

minds ignorant of stern miraculous
this every truth-beware of heartless them
(given the scalpel,they dissect a kiss;
or,sold the reason,they undream a dream)

one is the song which fiends and angels sing:
all murdering lies by mortals told make two.
Let liars wilt,repaying life they’re loaned;
we(by a gift called dying born)must grow

deep in dark least ourselves remembering
love only rides his year.
All lose,whole find

one's not half two. It's two are halves of one: poem - E. E. Cummings

one’s not half two. It’s two are halves of one: which halves reintegrating,shall occur no death and any quantity;but than all numerable mosts the actual more minds ignorant of stern miraculous

www.best-poems.net

**I do think that nature replete with mortality is the "actual more" eluded to.

 

[Whateverist]

My view is, it exists in the mind.

Yes. But not as someone else suggested as an aberration. I think it is integral to our minds in ways we can't isolate in a lab nor perhaps in any other way. The analytic approach which seeks to break things down to constitutive parts, looking there for the motor that drives the phenomenon won't succeed. I know that in the manner E.E. Cummings knew what he knew - not scientifically or analytically.

 

[incites]

Are the dead alive somewhere?
Can the dead interact with the living... or dead?
Is there any hope for the dead... can the dead live again?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Spoiler: Scriptures

Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) 4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

(Isaiah 26:19) “Your dead will live. My corpses will rise up. Awake and shout joyfully, You residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of the morning, And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.

(Hosea 13:14) From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.

(Mark 12:26) But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(John 11:24, 25) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Basically, those scriptures tell us

• the dead are not alive anywhere... except in God's memory. Luke 20:38
• the dead cannot communicate with either the living, or the dead. They cannot do anything. They are inactive - in the powerful grip of death.
• the dead can... will live again, by means of a resurrection, which God promises, and is both willing and able to carry out.

On examining these scriptures, do you agree this is what we find?

they dead rest in peace until they have to bear account but the dead dont know nor do they remember as when u die all ur plans will fail u n u will lose what u had at death but in death theres no evil to effect u from others by n u will find a rest thats far from pain n sorrow or tears or fears as what u went through here u will find refuge from in the next form u find urself in however the bext form u not be provided a exit but stay within it despite how much u seek to flee or avoid as in next life u will loath all that u did n wish u didnt but u wont find relief from ur state until u are comforted by ease from it by the truth as its him alone that is ur source so trust in it cuz it won't let u down nor leave u without what u need as he knows best what u need n whst u can handle so of u trust in thr truth then know its good in that who is giving to u it is the best and theres none better or as able or is most knowing as he for its he alone that u must trust in that u may find a victory in ur final moment but if u not have trust in the truth i can confirm it for u now.....if u don't accept Yah n trust in him u will find loss to what u trust in as it will not be there for u as the protection i recieve from Yah is clear to me in that im not dead despite being challenged as i have the truth n even solely trust in that trust n have not detoured nor denied Yah but even when i started in Christianity i immediately identified Yah as the Father of jesus but have moved ahead n am now believeing Allah is Yah which is one god who is called god of abraham cuz if u want the source of it all u must begin at the beginning as its by torah that i have trusted in to believe in god n its what is exactly what u are sourcing by to retain what u understand if not the original foundational n exact path by what we believe in that gives us power n ability where others lack in that they were never told so ofc they dont know n im not telling them cuz even i just believe in god i dobt know him as my senses let me know but when my senses fail ability i use hope to believe by faith that i may understand what nobe of my senses could tell me as i only believe of god by what the scriptures say of him from what the prophets left behind for me to have that one may follow up on whats before him so truly its a 4000 year old message that im recieveing today that i may have more than belief of it but find knowledge of it that i may be certain of what i want to know n not need to use belief to keep but the day i know god n no longer need to believe is the day u will see me do what others were not able to as it will be the day that u will hear me n u will be shown all that u denied as it will be the day that i call u to call ur witnesses n that which u held dear that i may show u the futileness of what u had to point out to u the things u didnt see that u could not recognize but in that day u will know n u will be held accountable for ur evils u did that effected others in ways thats ur jot only accountable for what u know byt even held accountable for what others do after u say to them what u do cuz its meritted of one kind word can save an entire species loss as its that simple