Where are the Dead?

[YoursTrue]

Which is an interesting point. On two levels. Soil to soil or ashes to ashes ..and genetic inheritance even of personality traits that may be embedded in the cells.

@ChristineM I don't believe I'm wrong when I say that infants born of alcoholic mothers are born with serious problems.

I'm glad to hear that your desire to contact your late husband is strong and that you won't let anyone talk you out of it.



I definitely agree with you about the Bible.



My advice to you in the days leading up to your appointment is to speak aloud to your late husband (especially in the rooms he frequented in your home) and let him know that you've asked a medium to come and speak to him, and then tell him when your appointment will be. I also suggest telling him that you'd like to ask him specific questions that only he will know the answers to. It would help you if you had these questions written down when the medium comes, but don't tell him about them. Remember not to tell the medium anything specific about your late husband, either. He needs to have a clear mind.

Wow you have to make an appointment to speak with him.

 

[YoursTrue]

It matters what a person believes and it matters what a person does, because all people doing things displeasing the Creator will be judge according to their acts and false beliefs won't change a thing about it, so better start knowing the truth trough God's revelation to man: His written word, the Bible.

If God say dead "are conscious of nothing at all" (Ecl. 9:5) it is truth, and the truth will make you free of lies.

No matter how many invisible demon spirits make you believe that they are your dead loved ones... those demons are not going to free you from the judgment that God will bring on those who did not accept the truth. Demons are not above God... let alone the dead.

Just reading the book of Ezra shows how God was not happy to see the Jews go to pagan ideas, something He never commanded and He disapproved.

 

[YoursTrue]

LOL - yes, and probably an unending question.

My position comes from John 1:1 - The Word was God and 1:14 and The Word was made flesh and they called him Jesus.

So, as The Word, He was fully God. In the flesh we go by Philippians 2 where He emptied Himself of His God attributes and became fully man.

In His resurrection, He received back the glory He had as God and now if fully God and fully man.

Ok. Thank you for your answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

She's on your side.

Sometimes my comments may be a bit off...

 

[Kenny]

Well, if you believe that is the truth, and you are in the light, then you agree it makes a difference, right?
It's either true that people are being tormented in hell's flames, after death, or it's not.
So, if what you believe is true, to believe otherwise is to believe the lie, and such ones cannot be on the side of truth. Agreed?

I think you are making too complicated - or relegating it to just two options as in lie/truth

Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Obviously there are levels of understanding - some are babies and just need to grow

......

2 Peter 3:18
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Some people need to grow in grace - too law oriented

......


2 Timothy 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


....

and many others.

In this case, I think you are just mistaken in your understanding... which, of course, you could say of me. (Not being offensive - just that the reality of it is that one of us is mistaken - but not lying.

 

[Kenny]

That's a good point YoursTrue. Thanks.
I wonder what Ken thinks about that. Let's ask.
@Kenny, according to Jesus, the rich man dies, and is buried. While the beggar dies, and is carried off by the angels, to Abraham's side.
(Luke 16:21, 22) Now in the course of time, the beggar died and was carried off by the angels to Abraham’s side. “Also, the rich man died and was buried.

Can we spend a little time here, if you don't mind.
Can you explain that in real terms. Thanks.

As I understand it, Lazarus was not in Heaven since the blood of Jesus had not yet been presented in the Holy of Holies of Heaven. "The more favorable place" was called Paradise. Thus the thief found Jesus when Jesus said along the lines of 'today you will see me in Paradise'.

Hades and Paradise are both like unto a holding place until the appointed time. For those in Paradise, until the resurrection of Jesus (there are many resurrections such as when we receive our new bodies) and those in Hades at the time of judgment.

I know we want to know all things but just in the miracles and all that Jesus did and said were written, there would not be room enough to write it all (so to speak) - and even what he did say, sometimes it is repeated for emphasis.

So, how did the rich man arrive in Hades? Well, Jesus didn't say so we don't know - just that he found himself there while his body was in a grave (an example of how our spirit/souls are still alive even when our bodies go to dust). Where was Lazarus buried? Wherever poor people are taken, I guess. Jesus didn't mention where. I'm sure his family wasn't too concerned about his wellbeing or when he would die. We do know that angels carried his spirit/soul because his body was turning to dust. (We do know that 'angels' aren't parables but real)

 

[Kenny]

Well, proper names can be used anywhere without meaning they are used in a literal context.

You can read, for example, that the 12 fundation stones of the heavenly Jerusalem have the 12 names of the apostles. But that is just a vision, right?

Rev. 21:14 The wall of the city also had 12 foundation stones, and on them were the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.

I don't think that answered the question. More like a sidestep. (P.S. - if I hand't noticed your reply, I would have missed it. When you hit "reply", it quotes what I said and flags me to answer.)

 

[cataway]

As I understand it, Lazarus was not in Heaven since the blood of Jesus had not yet been presented in the Holy of Holies of Heaven. "The more favorable place" was called Paradise. Thus the thief found Jesus when Jesus said along the lines of 'today you will see me in Paradise'.

Hades and Paradise are both like unto a holding place until the appointed time. For those in Paradise, until the resurrection of Jesus (there are many resurrections such as when we receive our new bodies) and those in Hades at the time of judgment.

I know we want to know all things but just in the miracles and all that Jesus did and said were written, there would not be room enough to write it all (so to speak) - and even what he did say, sometimes it is repeated for emphasis.

So, how did the rich man arrive in Hades? Well, Jesus didn't say so we don't know - just that he found himself there while his body was in a grave (an example of how our spirit/souls are still alive even when our bodies go to dust). Where was Lazarus buried? Wherever poor people are taken, I guess. Jesus didn't mention where. I'm sure his family wasn't too concerned about his wellbeing or when he would die. We do know that angels carried his spirit/soul because his body was turning to dust. (We do know that 'angels' aren't parables but real)

its just a story to illustrate a point

 

[ChristineM]

@ChristineM I don't believe I'm wrong when I say that infants born of alcoholic mothers are born with serious problems.

Not particularly born although health may be impacted but being raised by an alcoholic can cause problems

 

[YoursTrue]

I think you are making too complicated - or relegating it to just two options as in lie/truth

Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Obviously there are levels of understanding - some are babies and just need to grow

......

2 Peter 3:18
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Some people need to grow in grace - too law oriented

......


2 Timothy 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


....

and many others.

In this case, I think you are just mistaken in your understanding... which, of course, you could say of me. (Not being offensive - just that the reality of it is that one of us is mistaken - but not lying.

Hi, Kenny. Here's a thought as I was reading the post -- why do you think God told the Israelites not to contact the dead? or make application to them? via spirit mediums? I looked up the word necromancy and found some interesting definitions, but here is a scripture you might want to think about from 1 Chronicles 10:13 = American Standard Version - "And Saul died for his unfaithfulness that he had committed against Jehovah as to Jehovah’s word which he did not observe, and also in that he asked for a medium to inquire of,"
So here it makes it clear that Saul disobeyed God by contacting a spirit medium to inquire thereof. And he was punished for it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Not particularly born although health may be impacted but being raised by an alcoholic can cause problems

Yes. And it would make sense (wouldn't it?) that the capacity of the person born to a person addicted to alcohol or drugs could be itself impacted.
I understand that someone born to an alcoholic parent has problems also growing up. Not good.
Fetal alcohol syndrome is classified as the most severe effect of drinking during pregnancy. It may include fetal death. Infants born with FAS have abnormalities of the face. They also have growth and central nervous system (CNS) problems. This includes learning and mental disabilities.
This from default - Stanford Medicine Children's Health

 

[nPeace]

I think you are making too complicated - or relegating it to just two options as in lie/truth

Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Obviously there are levels of understanding - some are babies and just need to grow

......

2 Peter 3:18
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Some people need to grow in grace - too law oriented

......


2 Timothy 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


....

and many others.

In this case, I think you are just mistaken in your understanding... which, of course, you could say of me. (Not being offensive - just that the reality of it is that one of us is mistaken - but not lying.

Okay. Thanks.
So I am mistaken, in that a lie the adversary told through his ministers, I took up, and ran with it, and also promotes it.
All I am asking is am I a disciple of Christ, and on the side of truth, in your view? That's all I am trying to ascertain from you, on this.

As I understand it, Lazarus was not in Heaven since the blood of Jesus had not yet been presented in the Holy of Holies of Heaven. "The more favorable place" was called Paradise. Thus the thief found Jesus when Jesus said along the lines of 'today you will see me in Paradise'.

Hades and Paradise are both like unto a holding place until the appointed time. For those in Paradise, until the resurrection of Jesus (there are many resurrections such as when we receive our new bodies) and those in Hades at the time of judgment.

I know we want to know all things but just in the miracles and all that Jesus did and said were written, there would not be room enough to write it all (so to speak) - and even what he did say, sometimes it is repeated for emphasis.

So, how did the rich man arrive in Hades? Well, Jesus didn't say so we don't know - just that he found himself there while his body was in a grave (an example of how our spirit/souls are still alive even when our bodies go to dust). Where was Lazarus buried? Wherever poor people are taken, I guess. Jesus didn't mention where. I'm sure his family wasn't too concerned about his wellbeing or when he would die. We do know that angels carried his spirit/soul because his body was turning to dust. (We do know that 'angels' aren't parables but real)

Thanks.
You say, "So, how did the rich man arrive in Hades? Well, Jesus didn't say so we don't know - just that he found himself there while his body was in a grave..."

My mind goes to scriptures such as...

(Genesis 37:35) . . .For I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheʹol!” And his father continued weeping for him.
(Genesis 42:38) . . .then YOU would certainly bring down my gray hairs with grief to Sheʹol. . .
(1 Kings 2:6) . . .you must act according to your wisdom, and not let his gray hairs go down in peace to Sheʹol. . .
(Job 14:13) . . .O that in Sheʹol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
(Job 17:13-16) 13 If I keep waiting, Sheʹol is my house; In the darkness I shall have to spread out my lounge. 14 To the pit I shall have to call out, ‘You are my father!’ To the maggot, ‘My mother and my sister!’ 15 So where, then, is my hope? And my hope—who is it that beholds it? 16 To the bars of Sheʹol they will go down, When we, all together, must descend to the very dust.”
(Psalm 6:5) . . .For in death there is no mention of you; In Sheʹol who will laud you? (Isaiah 38:18)

All these scriptures refer to Sheol, as the place where the dead go - their graves.
Solomon said, there is no activity there.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) . . .All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheʹol, the place to which you are going.

David, prophetically sang... For you will not leave my soul in Sheʹol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit. (Psalm 16:10)
The apostle Peter, referring to the Messiah, quoted David's words.
(Acts 2:31) . . .he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Haʹdes nor did his flesh see corruption.

Peter said the Messiah was raised up from the dead.
(Acts 3:15) . . .whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. . .

So, my question is, Why do you believe that Hades is not the grave in which the rich man was buried?

 

[Kenny]

its just a story to illustrate a point

Yes, some people hold that position.

 

[Kenny]

Hi, Kenny. Here's a thought as I was reading the post -- why do you think God told the Israelites not to contact the dead? or make application to them? via spirit mediums? I looked up the word necromancy and found some interesting definitions, but here is a scripture you might want to think about from 1 Chronicles 10:13 = American Standard Version - "And Saul died for his unfaithfulness that he had committed against Jehovah as to Jehovah’s word which he did not observe, and also in that he asked for a medium to inquire of,"
So here it makes it clear that Saul disobeyed God by contacting a spirit medium to inquire thereof. And he was punished for it.

Yes... so true. Certainly Abraham said that he would not send someone from the dead.

 

[Bird123]

Are the dead alive somewhere?
Can the dead interact with the living... or dead?
Is there any hope for the dead... can the dead live again?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Spoiler: Scriptures

Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) 4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

(Isaiah 26:19) “Your dead will live. My corpses will rise up. Awake and shout joyfully, You residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of the morning, And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.

(Hosea 13:14) From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.

(Mark 12:26) But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(John 11:24, 25) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Basically, those scriptures tell us

• the dead are not alive anywhere... except in God's memory. Luke 20:38
• the dead cannot communicate with either the living, or the dead. They cannot do anything. They are inactive - in the powerful grip of death.
• the dead can... will live again, by means of a resurrection, which God promises, and is both willing and able to carry out.

On examining these scriptures, do you agree this is what we find?

We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. As Spiritual beings, we are all eternal. On the other hand, our physical bodies are not eternal.

Death is no more than a Change. Yes, there are reasons death even exists at all. Think about it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Kenny]

Okay. Thanks.
So I am mistaken, in that a lie the adversary told through his ministers, I took up, and ran with it, and also promotes it.
All I am asking is am I a disciple of Christ, and on the side of truth, in your view? That's all I am trying to ascertain from you, on this.

That surmounts to a personal viewpoint. Wouldn't it be just as valid if I quoted that to you?

Thanks.
You say, "So, how did the rich man arrive in Hades? Well, Jesus didn't say so we don't know - just that he found himself there while his body was in a grave..."

My mind goes to scriptures such as...

(Genesis 37:35) . . .For I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheʹol!” And his father continued weeping for him.
(Genesis 42:38) . . .then YOU would certainly bring down my gray hairs with grief to Sheʹol. . .
(1 Kings 2:6) . . .you must act according to your wisdom, and not let his gray hairs go down in peace to Sheʹol. . .
(Job 14:13) . . .O that in Sheʹol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
(Job 17:13-16) 13 If I keep waiting, Sheʹol is my house; In the darkness I shall have to spread out my lounge. 14 To the pit I shall have to call out, ‘You are my father!’ To the maggot, ‘My mother and my sister!’ 15 So where, then, is my hope? And my hope—who is it that beholds it? 16 To the bars of Sheʹol they will go down, When we, all together, must descend to the very dust.”
(Psalm 6:5) . . .For in death there is no mention of you; In Sheʹol who will laud you? (Isaiah 38:18)

Ok.

The issue here is to study to find harmony.

Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.
Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Luke 12:20 But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So we have to find the harmony.

Gen 37:35 is talking about his life on the earth and not the hereafter
Gen 42:38 is talking about present life on earth and not the hereafter
1 Kings 2:6 the same
Job 14:13et al Can be understood that he meant that he is still alive spiritually until God's anger passes away but Job also said, Job 42:3b therefore have I uttered that I understood not; - He didn't exactly know what he was talking about in many cases.

Ultimately Jesus gave the full revelation--things and truths never spoken before.

David, prophetically sang... For you will not leave my soul in Sheʹol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit. (Psalm 16:10)
The apostle Peter, referring to the Messiah, quoted David's words.
(Acts 2:31) . . .he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Haʹdes nor did his flesh see corruption.

She'ol

Sh@'owl​

sheh-ole'
Noun Feminine

1. sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
   1. the underworld
   2. Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
      1. place of no return
      2. without praise of God
      3. wicked sent there for punishment
      4. righteous not abandoned to it
      5. of the place of exile (fig)
      6. of extreme degradation in sin

And Jesus didn't stay there.

Peter said the Messiah was raised up from the dead.
(Acts 3:15) . . .whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. . .

yes... I agree

So, my question is, Why do you believe that Hades is not the grave in which the rich man was buried?

Conclusion​

Many people have differing definitions of the word hell. Hell is commonly defined as nether world, abode of the dead, or infernal regions. The Bible defines hell as an underground location in the center of the earth where people who have rejected God are tormented by fire, the gnashing of teeth of beasts, and the poison of serpents. The Hebrew word Sheol is defined the same as the Greek word Hades. The word Sheol or Hades do not simply refer to a grave. One other Greek word translated as hell is the Greek word Tartaroo, which is the deepest abyss of Hades.



Read more: Is There A Difference Between Hades, Hell, and Sheol? A Bible Study

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes... so true. Certainly Abraham said that he would not send someone from the dead.

OK, so now, if you have time, I will go over a detail or two from the account of the rich man and Lazarus. Starting at the beginning, the account of the rich man and Lazarus at Luke 16 starts by saying -- "Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. 20And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores." Let's say some might think perhaps that it was the same Lazarus that Jesus resurrected from the dead. How do you feel about that? Because that Lazarus (the brother of Martha and Mary) certainly couldn't have been a beggar like that, based on the description of the Lazarus that Jesus resurrected. Nothing to indicate they were poor, begging for food, Lazarus covered in sores with dogs licking. We can know that also because of the relationship the family (Martha, Mary, and Lazarus) described as being hospitable and normal. So can we exclude that Lazarus spoken of in the account with the resurrection of Lazarus, Jesus friend? Nothing to indicate at all in any way that Lazarus, his friend, was a beggar like that.

 

[YoursTrue]

That surmounts to a personal viewpoint. Wouldn't it be just as valid if I quoted that to you?



Ok.

The issue here is to study to find harmony.

Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.
Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Luke 12:20 But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So we have to find the harmony.

Gen 37:35 is talking about his life on the earth and not the hereafter
Gen 42:38 is talking about present life on earth and not the hereafter
1 Kings 2:6 the same
Job 14:13et al Can be understood that he meant that he is still alive spiritually until God's anger passes away but Job also said, Job 42:3b therefore have I uttered that I understood not; - He didn't exactly know what he was talking about in many cases.

Ultimately Jesus gave the full revelation--things and truths never spoken before.




She'ol

Sh@'owl​

sheh-ole'
Noun Feminine

1. sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
   1. the underworld
   2. Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
      1. place of no return
      2. without praise of God
      3. wicked sent there for punishment
      4. righteous not abandoned to it
      5. of the place of exile (fig)
      6. of extreme degradation in sin

And Jesus didn't stay there.


yes... I agree

Conclusion​

Many people have differing definitions of the word hell. Hell is commonly defined as nether world, abode of the dead, or infernal regions. The Bible defines hell as an underground location in the center of the earth where people who have rejected God are tormented by fire, the gnashing of teeth of beasts, and the poison of serpents. The Hebrew word Sheol is defined the same as the Greek word Hades. The word Sheol or Hades do not simply refer to a grave. One other Greek word translated as hell is the Greek word Tartaroo, which is the deepest abyss of Hades.



Read more: Is There A Difference Between Hades, Hell, and Sheol? A Bible Study

I would like to say one thing about this. Life comes only from following Jesus. That would be now and later...

 

[nPeace]

That surmounts to a personal viewpoint.

How so? Isn't that what the scripture say?

Wouldn't it be just as valid if I quoted that to you?

I'm not sure what you mean. Quoted what?

Ok.

The issue here is to study to find harmony.

Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.
Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Luke 12:20 But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?’
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So we have to find the harmony.

Gen 37:35 is talking about his life on the earth and not the hereafter
Gen 42:38 is talking about present life on earth and not the hereafter
1 Kings 2:6 the same
Job 14:13et al Can be understood that he meant that he is still alive spiritually until God's anger passes away but Job also said, Job 42:3b therefore have I uttered that I understood not; - He didn't exactly know what he was talking about in many cases.

Ultimately Jesus gave the full revelation--things and truths never spoken before.

Trying to understand.
Are you saying that Sheol does not mean grave, or that those scriptures are not referring to persons going to sheol - the grave, at death, or...?

She'ol

Sh@'owl​

sheh-ole'
Noun Feminine

1. sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
   1. the underworld
   2. Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
      1. place of no return
      2. without praise of God
      3. wicked sent there for punishment
      4. righteous not abandoned to it
      5. of the place of exile (fig)
      6. of extreme degradation in sin

And Jesus didn't stay there.

Jesus did not stay where?
Did Jesus die and go to Hades - the grave?

yes... I agree

You agree that Jesus was dead, in Hades - the grave?

Conclusion​

Many people have differing definitions of the word hell. Hell is commonly defined as nether world, abode of the dead, or infernal regions.

Hell? I thought the word is Hades.
Not every Bible uses the word hell. Even the KJV, does not consistently render Hades, as hell.

The Bible defines hell as an underground location in the center of the earth where people who have rejected God are tormented by fire, the gnashing of teeth of beasts, and the poison of serpents.

No Ken. Hell is a word that translators use to render Hades.
The Bible does not define hell. People do. The Bible uses the Hebrew word Sheol, and the Greek word Hades.

These words are rendered grave in some translations... Actually, correction... many translations.

Genesis 37:35 - Jacob Mourns Joseph

All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. No, he said. I will go down to Sheol mourning for my son. So his father wept for him.

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Genesis 42:38 - Joseph's Brothers Return to Canaan

But Jacob replied, My son will not go down there with you, for his brother is dead, and he alone is left. If any harm comes to him on your journey, you will bring my gray hair down to Sheol in sorrow.

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1 Kings 2:6 - David Instructs Solomon

So act according to your wisdom, and do not let his gray head go down to Sheol in peace.

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Psalm 6:5 - Do not Rebuke Me in Your Anger

For there is no mention of You in death; who can praise You from Sheol?

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Psalm 16:10 - The Presence of God

For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

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Acts 2:31 - Peter Preaches to the Crowd

Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.

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So, rather than this being what the Bible defines, this would be what you believe. Is that not correct?

The Hebrew word Sheol is defined the same as the Greek word Hades. The word Sheol or Hades do not simply refer to a grave.

Why do most translations render Sheol as grave, including the KJV?

One other Greek word translated as hell is the Greek word Tartaroo, which is the deepest abyss of Hades.

This word is translated hell in most translations - perhaps three times as much as Sheol and Hades.
So, are you saying that Sheol, Hades, and Tartarus all mean the same thing - hell?
So there is a hell in hell?

Read more: Is There A Difference Between Hades, Hell, and Sheol? A Bible Study

I hope you don't mind my candor.
The page starts with a presupposition - that the word hell is actually a Biblical word, when it isn't.

If you ask someone to define the word hell you will hear a variety of definitions.​

It then uses that presupposition to make a statement that is not true.

The Bible uses words Hades, Sheol, and even Gehenna when referring to hell.​

They did get something partially correct, but they did not go back far enough.

What is hell?​

Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.

The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200.

The following statements are false Ken

How does the Bible define hell?​

The Bible uses the word hell 54 times throughout the Old and New Testaments (KJV).​

It would have been more accurate to say, The KJV translation of the Bible defines hell... although that is neither Hebrew, Aramaic, nor Greek.
This is not a study of the Bible Ken. This is a study of a theologian.
Consider the next false premise...

Can the word hell simply mean the grave?​

Shouldn't that be, Can the word Sheol/Hades simply mean the grave?
The answer is Yes.
Most translators of the Bible recognize that.
Even your definition acknowledges it.

I think it's important to start with the Bible rather than a belief. What do you think.
The words are Hebrew Sheol; Greek Hades.
I'll wait for your response to my earlier questions. Let's see where it takes us.

 

[JustGeorge]

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