When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

[metis]

Is infinity G-d of the science? Please
Who makes the mathematics work?Please
Does it naturally exist or it hypothetically exists and is only a construct of the human brain for convenience? Please
Regards

If it didn't "naturally exist" then naturally it wouldn't work out naturally.

But while I'm at it, do you believe God causes every little thing to happen, or do just some things happen on their own?

 

[Parsimony]

When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

One aspect is #1493 #1494.
Regards

Science doesn't argue that the Earth was dry when Pangaea was around, so what are you even talking about?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Open for discussion for the Theists and the Atheists alike.
Regards

It indicates that the "scientist" in question, isn't. In fact you could more accurately characterize gibberish as politically correct psychobabble when it comes to faux scientists, at least in regards to the soft sciences.

 

[paarsurrey]

If it didn't "naturally exist" then naturally it wouldn't work out naturally.
But while I'm at it, do you believe God causes every little thing to happen, or do just some things happen on their own?

Yes, G-d causes every little or big thing to happen. G-d has made rules/principles for the processes to operate, things normally work accordingly until something happens when special rules get at work, nevertheless everything operates as per unblemished attributes of G-d.
Nothing could happen on its own:

[6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.​

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=59
Regards

 

[metis]

Yes, G-d causes every little or big thing to happen. G-d has made rules/principles for the processes to operate, things normally work accordingly until something happens when special rules get at work, nevertheless everything operates as per unblemished attributes of G-d.
Nothing could happen on its own:

[6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.​

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=59
Regards

So, if someone goes out and murders an innocent person, we should blame God for that and then maybe put God on trial?

 

[McBell]

Yes, G-d causes every little or big thing to happen. G-d has made rules/principles for the processes to operate, things normally work accordingly until something happens when special rules get at work, nevertheless everything operates as per unblemished attributes of G-d.
Nothing could happen on its own:

[6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.​

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=59
Regards

Then you are completely wasting your time.

Think about it.
According to you no one has any control over what they do, think, believe.....
It is all according to what God wants.
Thus you are in fact attempting to thwart God by getting them to do something that is against what god wants.

Wonder what your God thinks about that?

 

[RRex]

When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

You are uneducated in that particular area.

Is there a point to such an obvious question?

 

[gnostic]

You are uneducated in that particular area.

No, that just it.

Paarsurrey is scientific illiterate. He admitted last year that he don't have much of science background.

Look how many topics he started in Science and Religion forum or the Evolution Vs Creationism. For a guy who stressed that he is just ordinary guy with little to none science background, he would lecture us about what we doing in science or what we know in science, are wrong.

Look at his posts. He often would ask people questions about this topic or that topic, but unless you agree with him, he is not interested in learning from someone who may know more than him, not just with science, but in history, culture, etc.

His questions are not used to inquire knowledge or learn from others, but to simply a tactics, so that he can tell you are wrong.

Talk about sheer arrogance through ignorance.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I think you need to be more clear what you mean when you say "gibberish". Do you mean literal gibberish, or just things that you don't understand? Why would you have to note that this is open to theists and atheists? Why is one's view on God relevant to this?

Word salad is a real term and is better than gibberish I think (google it). There are some who think if they string together a bunch of made up strange and big (sounds like my last date) words together it will wow the forum and make them look like a brainiac', when in reality it makes them they look brainless. I have noticed those kinds of posts are increasing frequency. The science orientated forums seem to have more than their fair share, usually authored by those that want to be scientists, or religious scholars etc but lack the drive to even use search engines to research their claims etc

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

You are uneducated in that particular area.

Is there a point to such an obvious question?

I think any question is ok. And the OT does bring up a good subject if we can include truly questionable theories or attempts to fraud as gibberish. I think the more outlandish interpretations of the MWI postulates any imaginable scenario or event will happen. So all the disciplines from theologians to Darwinist, have their weird and more weird theories and hypothesis etc. So its up to us normal people to stay the course eH lol ha ha ha ahhhhh hahahahahahahahahhahaha .....oh YES we normal people .. wtf is normal?

God bless this forum

note

the 'f' in wtf means freak....I am a preacher and I should refrain from using the other f word....

 

[paarsurrey]

Is infinity G-d of the science? Please
Who makes the mathematics work?Please
Does it naturally exist or it hypothetically exists and is only a construct of the human brain for convenience? Please

If it didn't "naturally exist" then naturally it wouldn't work out naturally.
But while I'm at it, do you believe God causes every little thing to happen, or do just some things happen on their own?

Yes, G-d causes every little or big thing to happen. G-d has made rules/principles for the processes to operate, things normally work accordingly until something happens when special rules get at work, nevertheless everything operates as per unblemished attributes of G-d.
Nothing could happen on its own:

[6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.​

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=59

Then you are completely wasting your time.
Think about it.
According to you no one has any control over what they do, think, believe.....
It is all according to what God wants.
Thus you are in fact attempting to thwart God by getting them to do something that is against what god wants.
Wonder what your God thinks about that?

Did I say that?
One could do only what has been possible for one to do as allowed by Him. If it is possible for one to do good and also to do bad, and G-d has fixed a good reward for doing good, then one will surely get that reward. And if one does bad and G-d has fixed a bad consequence of that, one will definitely get that. Right? Please
Should I quote from G-d? Please feel free if one is interested,serious and reasonable.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

One may like to read post #1187 in another thread, very much related to this thread. Please
Regards

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

One may like to read post #1187 in another thread, very much related to this thread. Please
Regards

The free will vs predestination argument has raged in philosophy forums, debate halls, and before that in presocratic and sophist philosophers venues of antiquity. As a theist I feel we do have choice and I also say the universe is predestined. Sound contradictory? Yes, but its true, nearly undeniable imho.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The free will vs predestination argument has raged in philosophy forums, debate halls, and before that in presocratic and sophist philosophers venues of antiquity. As a theist I feel we do have choice and I also say the universe is predestined. Sound contradictory? Yes, but its true, nearly undeniable imho.

Well said MrMrdevincamus....I am positive that there is a definite evolutionary goal for mankind...and whatever it is...it will not be realized merely by belief......those that learn to use their free will properly and wisely will realize it before those that don't...

 

[Skwim]

The free will vs predestination argument has raged in philosophy forums, debate halls, and before that in presocratic and sophist philosophers venues of antiquity. As a theist I feel we do have choice and I also say the universe is predestined. Sound contradictory? Yes, but its true, nearly undeniable imho.

Care to expand on this and tell us what you include under the term "universe" and in what way it's predestined? And why humans are exempt?


.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Well said MrMrdevincamus....I am positive that there is a definite evolutionary goal for mankind...and whatever it is...it will not be realized merely by belief......those that learn to use their free will properly and wisely will realize it before those that don't...

Interesting comment. Do you think the ' evolutionary goal' you speak of is directed or controlled ? Do you think 'evolutionary goal' is changeable, either by a little or can it be completely changed imo?

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Open for discussion for the Theists and the Atheists alike.
Regards

Normally its just a failure to employ a coherent philosopher of science
who's function is to bridge the gap between the science and the people.

Sometimes its: baffle with bullsh for the sake of corrupt funding.

Sometimes its to hide potentially dangerous theories from a pathological public.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Care to expand on this and tell us what you include under the term "universe"

Yes, and I will try to be brief as possible except for this first paragraph which can be skipped by those that don't like personal information etc. All I am going to say in this para is my plodding (long) way of trying to explain my ideas through the written word might want to indulge in a three ounce shot of espresso, with a shot of Bailieys Irish cream (an alcoholic creamer or is it an creamer for alcoholics, lol?).

I CAN STILL LOOK CAN'T I ? LIFE IS SO UNFAIR...SNIFF....

Maybe the spirits and the caffeine will stop my words from making you sleepy ! I like Balies and cream too, but old my old demons never tire of the chase, hoping one day they can destroy me at a weak moment ! Ha, never! Plain espresso in 16 oz of good blended Colombian will have to do for me.

Ok the first is easy. When answering replies or writing threads if I reference 'The universe' I am referring to the concept that main stream science says is the 'space' where all the stars, galaxies, black holes, energies, gravity, the quantum foam, where virtual particles emerge, and zpe zero point energy), I also include antimatter etc etc That is of course a short list the universe is the space place where material objects exist according to big bang science. If I am referencing other theories like the MWI (the many worlds interpretation, which is part of string theory and Supersymmetry (SUSY). There are other theories such as the meta-verse and the holographic universe theory that is so different from the big bang universe its usually identifiable without saying anything to point it out. etc I will attempt to remember to say I am using a special universe not common etc. when we are discussing such things. ; { >

and in what way it's (the universe...edit mine) predestined? And why humans are exempt?

Ok first a disclaimer. I feel to lead a believer in the wrong direction is a nearly unforgivable sin. Even if it was not intentional. I would like to make sure you know that the following is my opinion and a idea, just barely a hypnosis. I don't want to change anyone's or maybe even corrupt anyone's way of thinking about God even a teeny tiny bit really it is. I am just throwing an idea out there of how a loving God could act in what seems like cruel or contradictory way but in reality is nothing of the sort.

Most of my ideas came from my modest studies of quantum theory and a lot of revelation came to me as the then new christian apologists, many of them multi degree PhDs that found their calling in philosophy, William Craig for example, some in microbiology Michal Behe influenced me in that area, theoretical sciences (many theists in those areas) and theist mathematical logicians writing from the past, like Kurt Godel who created the famous incompleteness theorem, and a good ontological argument for the existence of God. But to answer your question about I think the universe runs on probabilities.
Everything obeys natural law in the universe. So I believe the universe is predetermined to a certain fate because as a believer I feel God knows the fate of the universe. If this being,a ie God knows certain or all events are going to happen that is another way of saying the universe is predestined.

Maybe!

Remember the uncertainty principle? And remembering that in quantum physics it's physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle simultaneously. The better one is known, the less accurate the measurement of the other is. However it is possible to know with a very high degree of accuracy to know the details of both bits of information. In the same manner God knows to a supernatural accuracy of the fate of the universe. The same goes with each individual self aware being. However by allowing uncertainty and probabilities (ie decision making) in the human we can by making a free will decision change the outcome of an event, and screw up the experiment so to speak! We change everything by going against the probabilities and what God had calculated we would do by making a free will decision. And that tiny bit of probability is what gives us free will.

I hope the above is legible....I am weary tired and will attempt to clean it up in the morning....lol...


God less our forum.....

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Normally its just a failure to employ a coherent philosopher of science
who's function is to bridge the gap between the science and the people.

Sometimes its: baffle with bullsh for the sake of corrupt funding.

Sometimes its to hide potentially dangerous theories from a pathological public.

I had to ask this before I dream. But if its too personal just ignore, no worries! I see you are a logical positivist, and a Christian mystic, how do you square one ie positivist which demands empirical proof and rejects metaphysics out hand with Christian mysticism which seems diametrically opposed to the no gray area no spirits no metaphysics of logical positivism. Yes I am very suspicious of traditional logical positivism. Think Vienna Circle the where the LP members ignored the theist logistical Kurt Godel, well until his incompleteness theorem was revealed...

 

[Skwim]

Ok the first is easy. When answering replies or writing threads if I reference 'The universe' I am referring to the concept that main stream science says is the 'space' where all the stars, galaxies, black holes, energies, gravity, the quantum foam, where virtual particles emerge, and zpe zero point energy), I also include antimatter etc etc

Okay, the nuts and bolts, but not any of the other particulars we notice on earth such as trees, wars, evolution, love, or death. Gotcha.

Everything obeys natural law in the universe. So I believe the universe is predetermined to a certain fate because as a believer I feel God knows the fate of the universe. If this being,a ie God knows certain or all events are going to happen that is another way of saying the universe is predestined.

So you're saying that because god knows X will happen there's no way it can't happen. God has seen the fate of the universe so, whatever that may be, that's the way it has to be. Okay, but wouldn't that also apply to what we do? If god in all his omniscience sees me buy pot tomorrow then there's absolutely no way I cannot buy pot tomorrow. I do not have the free will to change my mind and buy a bag of apples instead.

Remember the uncertainty principle? And remembering that in quantum physics it's physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle simultaneously. The better one is known, the less accurate the measurement of the other is. However it is possible to know with a very high degree of accuracy to know the details of both bits of information. In the same manner God knows to a supernatural accuracy of the fate of the universe.

REALLY! Just how do you know this about god?
So, as all-powerful and all-knowing as people claim god to be, he isn't so omniscient after all. Interesting. There's a possibility, no matter how slight it may be, that god could be wrong about the ultimate fate of the universe. Hmmmmmm.

The same goes with each individual self aware being.

What "same"? That although we may think we're omniscient we're really not?

However by allowing uncertainty and probabilities (ie decision making) in the human we can by making a free will decision change the outcome of an event, and screw up the experiment so to speak! We change everything by going against the probabilities and what God had calculated we would do by making a free will decision.

Sorry, but I have to part company here. For one, I don't believe there's anything like free will. For a second, I believe that all we do and think is determined. Choice, choosing, and deciding are illusions.


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