When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

[Ben Dhyan]

Interesting comment. Do you think the ' evolutionary goal' you speak of is directed or controlled ? Do you think 'evolutionary goal' is changeable, either by a little or can it be completely changed imo?

Directed! The ultimate goal I speak of is the realization of what and who one really is in the bigger scheme of cosmic being.... Trials are faced that are appropriate for the present level of understanding of the soul that ensure progress towards the ultimate goal.. No soul is left behind though they may stumble and fail the trials at first....and trials are different for every level..and there are many levels.. People are not equal in this context...

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I had to ask this before I dream. But if its too personal just ignore, no worries! I see you are a logical positivist, and a Christian mystic, how do you square one ie positivist which demands empirical proof and rejects metaphysics out hand with Christian mysticism which seems diametrically opposed to the no gray area no spirits no metaphysics of logical positivism. Yes I am very suspicious of traditional logical positivism. Think Vienna Circle the where the LP members ignored the theist logistical Kurt Godel, well until his incompleteness theorem was revealed...

Your question is music to my ears.

I have been a logical positivist since long before I became a Christian mystic.
As a logical positivist, I can only be a Christian through personal direct communion with Christ.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Your question is music to my ears.

I have been a logical positivist since long before I became a Christian mystic.
As a logical positivist, I can only be a Christian through personal direct communion with Christ.

Was it rock music or more like classical, Chopin perhaps? Lol...although I was making a funny Chopin is one of my favorite composers.

I bet you get a lot of ribbing by your LP friends eh? Nothing wrong with that, maybe you can by your experience help some of them find their own path t a relationship with God. That (about friends) brings a scripture to mind it goes something like this; 'Always be kind to strangers one never knows if they are attending angels unawares' ~ Scripture also says we all have the attention of Jesus Christ. I experienced revelation almost daily and believe all Christians and even non Christians do. Non-believers just have a more difficult time knowing Jesus is with them due to their rejection, imo. of Jesus and of Gods existence etc. Also, in my experience some revelation is far more intense that others. For example I had an vivid NDE in HD (ha ha) when I crashed my Harley at high speed. I woke up then upon seeing my foot next to my head I passed out again! Lucky for me it was still attached! Have you ever closed your eyes in a totally dark room and 'saw' what looks like very dark grey um'...something like water from an indoor pool reflecting on the ceiling, kind of like the northern lights but more string like? Anyway I was watching that when I 'heard' "Do you want to die without knowing me?" Well the rest is history but I chose to know him! So that was God I think and the strongest 'revelation' I have ever had. Most revelation aren't nearly that dramatic! Most are just feeling the presence of Jesus etc.....

God please bless the world ~ and Peace to all~

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Was it rock music or more like classical, Chopin perhaps? Lol...although I was making a funny Chopin is one of my favorite composers.

I bet you get a lot of ribbing by your LP friends eh? Nothing wrong with that, maybe you can by your experience help some of them find their own path t a relationship with God. That (about friends) brings a scripture to mind it goes something like this; 'Always be kind to strangers one never knows if they are attending angels unawares' ~ Scripture also says we all have the attention of Jesus Christ. I experienced revelation almost daily and believe all Christians and even non Christians do. Non-believers just have a more difficult time knowing Jesus is with them due to their rejection, imo. of Jesus and of Gods existence etc. Also, in my experience some revelation is far more intense that others. For example I had an vivid NDE in HD (ha ha) when I crashed my Harley at high speed. I woke up then upon seeing my foot next to my head I passed out again! Lucky for me it was still attached! Have you ever closed your eyes in a totally dark room and 'saw' what looks like very dark grey um'...something like water from an indoor pool reflecting on the ceiling, kind of like the northern lights but more string like? Anyway I was watching that when I 'heard' "Do you want to die without knowing me?" Well the rest is history but I chose to know him! So that was God I think and the strongest 'revelation' I have ever had. Most revelation aren't nearly that dramatic! Most are just feeling the presence of Jesus etc.....

God please bless the world ~ and Peace to all~

The music was somewhere between Tchaikovsky and Bob Dylan with a hint of Vangelis.

It seems my mission is to try and show the path to God using materialist physics. This certainly leads to a lot more
heavy commentary than mere 'ribbing'! While I can appreciate the doubt of agnostics, I struggle to get inside the head
of the atheists & nihilists. I suppose its just cynicism that drives them to deny what they fear for no reason.
It seems they need to 'keep up appearances' or perhaps they fear losing their employment.
I'll have to try the dark room experiment sometime.

 

[Thief]

I'll have to try the dark room experiment sometime.

do you mean that quote.....?
go to your closet and close the door....and the Spirit that knows you will hear you

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

do you mean that quote.....?
go to your closet and close the door....and the Spirit that knows you will hear you

Well I have done quite a few such experiments.
With increadible results, but lately my mind tends to be
compelled into analyzing astrophysics
when I give it half a chance.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

The music was somewhere between Tchaikovsky and Bob Dylan with a hint of Vangelis.

I don't know much about Vangelis's work, my music knowledge data base is small. I do like his superb work on the blade runner flick, which still to this day one of the best scifi movies with good FX and a script that is believable. A nice total package.

It seems my mission is to try and show the path to God using materialist physics. This certainly leads to a lot more
heavy commentary than mere 'ribbing'!

Good for you! I have often said most people find their way to God or spirituality via faith. I found God via science, deductive logic as well as other disciplines like archeology and philosophy.

While I can appreciate the doubt of agnostics, I struggle to get inside the head
of the atheists & nihilists. I suppose its just cynicism that drives them to deny what they fear for no reason.

I don't have too much of a problem understanding why some atheists believe as they do because I was an atheist since the first grade, and maybe before that! Some atheists are angry at God for their station in life, or by suffering pain. They use the anger to rationalize that no loving God would do allow so much pain to fall upon them or to others in the world. Other atheists may ave been indoctrinated into atheism by parents and or others who hate Christianity etc . I know some feel their atheism lifestyle choice is far more logical than a life dedicated to a deity based faith . There are many more reasons that atheists choose not to believe. I believe as a Christians should minister to all non-Christian but we should do so with respect and with the understanding that many atheists would rather not be preached to, lol to say the least! So I often use non-verbal methods to explain my faith. Buy non verbal I mean doing volunteer work for the neighborhood, or world. Our fellow man needs us and there is nothing wrong with multitasking for God by wearing a Jesus loves you t shirt or a shirt with 'real men love Jesus' on it. I am a little off topic again .... so its time for me to go~

Thanks for sharing Jonathan....


: {>

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Directed! The ultimate goal I speak of is the realization of what and who one really is in the bigger scheme of cosmic being.... Trials are faced that are appropriate for the present level of understanding of the soul that ensure progress towards the ultimate goal.. No soul is left behind though they may stumble and fail the trials at first....and trials are different for every level..and there are many levels.. People are not equal in this context...

So you believe the cosmic being is a conglomeration of souls, and after we pass a trials (made for the present level of understanding) we, or our soul move up levels eventually reaching or knowing the ultimate Goal? And those that do not immediately become a piece of the higher level are competing in a game of the lowest levels where there is a hierarchy of not equal souls?

Lastly...Do you believe reincarnation ?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Oh I was looking back and l see I missed replying to your post skwim, I will fix that on my net post....SORRY!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So you believe the cosmic being is a conglomeration of souls, and after we pass a trials (made for the present level of understanding) we, or our soul move up levels eventually reaching or knowing the ultimate Goal? And those that do not immediately become a piece of the higher level are competing in a game of the lowest levels where there is a hierarchy of not equal souls?

Lastly...Do you believe reincarnation ?

Your questions reveal that you are not familiar with the idea of God being the eternal One that is the apparent all... And the obligatory pilgrimage of divine spirit to undergo cycles of reincarnation before learning to transcend matter and return to the perfection of spiritual union with God.. And if that is so...the following may not resonate with you...but that's ok...we are all brothers on the path...whether we know it or not....

Firstly reincarnation/recycling is an immutable principle of the cosmos.....from stars to people to cells to sub-atomic particles...for the cosmos is eternal and nothing can ever be added to it to make it more..or taken away from to make it less...it is one, complete and whole.

Terms like 'conglomeration'' of anything to describe plurality of aspects of the Cosmos/God/Being is simply the result of the dualisitc perspective of the human mind...which is fine so long as one also does not lose sight of the fact that the Cosmos is one. Like your body may be be constituted of a conglomeration of cells..but your body is whole.

The concept of 'soul' represents a physio-spiritual aspect....souls are not equal but they can never be more than a soul....like the human body defines itself...it can never be more than it is...it can never be a spiritual being....but the the self awareness of a soul/person can transcend the physical state and never reincarnate again...

No.... it is impossible for anything separate from God to know God....God can only reveal God to God....and does so eternally.....and that is why proper religious practice is one that will ultimately correct all the errors of the mind that prevent knowing what and who one really is...

Yes, there is always competition in life and the cosmos....the eternal dance of good and evil...ying and yang...complementary opposites of all kinds...and it is ironic in that this is what allows that peace that passes understanding to prevail... The Tao is forever in a state of balance/peace due to the ongoing corrections of emerging tendencies for imbalance... analogous to a servo system..

Cheers...

 

[Mickdrew]

Science is ultimately knowledge we gain about the universe (it originates from the Latin word "scientia" or "knowledge")

Knowledge about the universe sounding like gibberish to us makes perfect sense since human brains were not evolved to understand the workings of the universe.
Our brains evolved to hunt, predict future outcomes, and work cooperatively with each other to survive. If we can't comprehend something, then that just means the universe extends beyond our humble origins - so it's not surprising that we have difficulty grasping it at times.

It's the same reason why we are good at recognizing faces (something computers are struggling with), while at the same time being terrible at solving complex equations (something a simple calculator from the dollar store can outperform us on).
We've developed in some areas, but not in others.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?"

Science goes gibberish only when Jahils try to define it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Science is ultimately knowledge we gain about the universe (it originates from the Latin word "scientia" or "knowledge")
Knowledge about the universe sounding like gibberish to us makes perfect sense since human brains were not evolved to understand the workings of the universe.
Our brains evolved to hunt, predict future outcomes, and work cooperatively with each other to survive. If we can't comprehend something, then that just means the universe extends beyond our humble origins - so it's not surprising that we have difficulty grasping it at times.
It's the same reason why we are good at recognizing faces (something computers are struggling with), while at the same time being terrible at solving complex equations (something a simple calculator from the dollar store can outperform us on).
We've developed in some areas, but not in others.

Veda is also knowledge in Sanskrit:

The Vedas (/ˈveɪdəz, ˈviː-/;[1] Sanskrit: वेद véda, "knowledge") are a large body of texts originating in the ancient Indian subcontinent. Composed in Vedic Sanskrit, the texts constitute the oldest layer of Sanskrit literature and the oldest scriptures of Hinduism.[2][3] Hindus consider the Vedas to be apauruṣeya, which means "not of a man, superhuman"[4] and "impersonal, authorless".[5][6][7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

When science goes gibberish?

One may like to read post #92 in another thread of this sub-forum. Please
Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hindus consider the Vedas to be apauruṣeya, which means "not of a man, superhuman"[4] and "impersonal, authorless".

Yeah, Veda has some knowledge other than prayers, but the latest of it is at least 3,000 years old. Knowledge has changed a lot in these 3,0000 years. We should accept what we have come to know and not remain in dark ages. Not doing that is but foolishness, jahiliyat.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yeah, Veda has some knowledge other than prayers, but the latest of it is at least 3,000 years old. Knowledge has changed a lot in these 3,0000 years. We should accept what we have come to know and not remain in dark ages. Not doing that is but foolishness, jahiliayat.

Not everything that is said in the name of science or Scientific Method is truthful or science. To accept such things is no knowledge. Every scientific discipline has its limitations, out of it , it becomes unscientific to accept it. Please
Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, if science has not proved something, they accept it as a theory with a gradation of how far it could be true. That is the '6 Sigma' system. Do you know about this system?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma

 

[paarsurrey]

When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

One man like to read post #798 in another thread that is relevant here also. Please
Regards

 

[McBell]

When science goes gibberish; what does it indicate?

One man like to read post #798 in another thread that is relevant here also. Please
Regards

When you claim science has gone gibberish it means you either do not understand it or you dislike it.
Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Vorkosigan]

Things will make sense to me if I can somehow connect them to my experience. Some areas of science are beyond my experience so I’m not surprised when a scientific model makes no sense (e.g., quantum mechanics). If the model works (evidence), I accept it until a better one comes up.

Some seem to be implying that reality has to make sense. I don’t think it has.