What's God's Big Hangup With Homosexuality?

[Prestor John]

This is not true.
Religion is everywhere and always has been. It was probably the main justification for the persecution of the Mormons in Missouri in 1833.
It's only been very recently that homosexuals could be at all open about themselves without being persecuted just as much as the Mormons 150 years ago. And it wouldn't be a big deal if people like the Mormons didn't feel entitled to persecute them, based on their religious beliefs.
Tom

I do not agree with the persecution that has been faced by homosexuals or early Latter-Day Saints, yet said persecutions have no bearing on what I said.

Nietzsche said,

"Because its influence can be felt through every facet of culture in the West, and in the United States in particular it threatens to deprive people of rights. If this were not the case, I don't think anyone would care."

The influences of homosexuality (despite past persecutions) can now be felt through every facet of culture in the West.

Not only this, but in the Untied States in particular, that influence threatens to deprive people of their right to freedom of religion.

I honestly would not care about homosexuality if defenders of that lifestyle did not shove it down my throat or try to change how I view it.

 

[Prestor John]

I'd say this is pretty shortsighted of god. He should be aware of how few people are homosexual and how little impact their lack of reproduction has on population growth.

I would first like to clarify that God does not make anyone homosexual.

He gives us our own individual weaknesses or propensity toward certain sins, to keep us humble, but it is us who decide to act on those weaknesses and commit sin.

I never said that God cared about population growth.

He cares about the worthiness and joy of us as individuals.

He wants us to marry and have children because that is the formula of the universe that can cause a fullness of joy.

Homosexual couples cannot have a continuance in eternity, because they cannot generate any increase.

They cannot create as God creates, therefore they cannot become like Him unless they abandon the practice of homosexuality, repent and change their nature.

That change is possible through the merits and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And to put homosexuals to death because they [won’t] reproduce doesn't sound very loving or even understanding at all.

I never said that God commanded ancient Israel to execute those who practiced homosexuality because they would not reproduce.

The people of Israel had made a covenant with the Lord that they would do all things that He required of them, however they ended up being very stubborn and they were quick to forget the promise they had made with God.

For this reason, the Lord gave them a very harsh Law. They needed a harsh Law to keep them in remembrance of the covenant they had made.

Not only this, but the punishments were harsh, because Israel was so easily swayed to committing various sins. That was one of the reasons why the Lord required them to destroy all the people of ancient Palestine, because those people had been idolaters and if left to mingle with Israel, the Israelites would have fallen prey to their false gods.

You have to understand that not only did Israel make promises to God, but He also made promises to them. And He always kept His promises.

Therefore, in order to keep Israel pure, as He promised, the Lord commanded that various lifestyles be completely obliterated.

Notice that the Law of Moses did not condemn anyone who had a same-sex attraction, but rather only punished those who acted on that same-sex attraction.

The Lord treated such actions as infections among the people of Israel and commanded that they be burned out, lest they spread.

Since the Israelites made a covenant with God as a single people, they were judged collectively and anyone acting against the dictates of the Lord could affect others as well.

It is very important that you understand that the Lord did not want to do any of this. He did not want to judge Israel collectively or to put people to death for committing homosexual acts. He wanted Israel to be kind and loving and righteous.

However, it was Israel’s lack of these qualities, while at the same time making sacred covenants with God (in order to receive the desired blessings and promises), that caused the Lord to make these harsh rules and punishments.

And as far as making sure that marriages are there so as to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise and continue into eternity, just make marriage between homosexuals okey dokey.

That is not possible because that would make God a liar.

The Laws of God have always been and every commandment He has given are predicated upon those Laws.

A fullness of joy can only come to God’s children if they are sealed to their eternal mate and continue to raise up seed.

Anything else is not a fullness of joy.

The world needs to know that any happiness or pleasure experienced by anyone through homosexual practices in this life is temporary.

Upon death, they will not be able to continue in the same relationship they have with their partner. They will be separated and they will not receive a fullness of joy.

Yes, homosexuals will be saved from sin and death. Yes, the joy of redemption through the Atonement of Jesus Christ the Lord will be theirs, but they will not have an increase.

They cannot eventually be perfected or become like God the Father because they were not faithful in all things.

They will have a limit placed upon their potential and they will have an end to their progression.

But how does sharing ones attraction with someone of the same sex interfere with this?

They cannot have an increase. Their kingdom ends with them.

Since they cannot create children in eternity, they will have no way of expanding their kingdom and posterity.

They will be alone. They will have a modicum of joy and contentment, but they will not have a partner or a fullness of joy through their posterity because they cannot have a posterity.

 

[columbus]

I would first like to clarify that God does not make anyone homosexual.

This is not true.
Perhaps if your religion didn't teach you wrong things you would be able to see the facts that are easy to see.
God, if there is one, made me gay. I certainly didn't choose it. I didn't even know what gay meant when I first started realizing that I was one.
Tom

 

[Prestor John]

This is not true.
Perhaps if your religion didn't teach you wrong things you would be able to see the facts that are easy to see.
God, if there is one, made me gay. I certainly didn't choose it. I didn't even know what gay meant when I first started realizing that I was one.
Tom

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I just hope you understand that it is your opinion. Nothing more.

I believe that God gives us all weaknesses and that you happen to suffer from a same-sex attraction.

Having that attraction does not make you a homosexual, however, once you decided to submit to that weakness, rather than to rise above it, and commit homosexual acts - you then could be classified as a homosexual.

Those who suffer from same-sex attractive, yet do not act on it, but resist it and overcome its effects are not guilty of committing the sexual sins of homosexuality.

This is the belief I have which is based on my study of the Word of God, testimonies of Apostles and Prophets and the influences of the Holy Spirit.

In my opinion, any claim that people are born homosexual is a false doctrine of both men and devils.

 

[Skwim]

I would first like to clarify that God does not make anyone homosexual.

He gives us our own individual weaknesses or propensity toward certain sins, to keep us humble, but it is us who decide to act on those weaknesses and commit sin.

I assume then that you consciously decided to be heterosexual, if that's what you are. Remember just when that was; in home room? When playing cowboys and Indians? On your thirteenth birthday?

"You know, I think I'll be attracted to girls rather than boys."​

Is that what went through your head?

I never said that God cared about population growth.

Well, when you said

"He wants His children to pair off, man and woman, and enter into a marriage covenant, live righteously and in complete fidelity, and then to procreate - increasing their joy with their posterity. ​

you do recognize, don't you, that a lot of children are unwanted by their parents, either as unwanted pregnancies or unwanted children; neither of which increases their joy.

Homosexual couples cannot have a continuance in eternity, because they cannot generate any increase.

Then the same must be true of spinsters, bachelors, and the infertile.

AND "because they cannot generate any increase" substantiates your belief that god does indeed care about population growth.

They cannot create as God creates, therefore they cannot become like Him unless they abandon the practice of homosexuality, repent and change their nature.

So heterosexuals create just like god creates? God has sex with . . . . . whom?

I never said that God commanded ancient Israel to execute those who practiced homosexuality because they would not reproduce

No you didn't. The Bible says it.

Leviticus 20:13 (ERV)
13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.​

Therefore, in order to keep Israel pure, as He promised, the Lord commanded that various lifestyles be completely obliterated.

Which goes to my question of why He abhorres homosexuality. Why?

The Lord treated such actions as infections among the people of Israel and commanded that they be burned out, lest they spread.

I know it must be fun, to say nothing about being convenient, to make up stuff like this, but it's gotten old and tiresome.

Have a good day

 

[columbus]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I just hope you understand that it is your opinion. Nothing more.

You're welcome.
The difference between our opinions is that mine is based on evidence and reason, actual facts. Yours is based on blind Faith in the humans who wrote your Scripture.
It is sufficient evidence to me that your God is a human Creation.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do not know what reasons you have for not being interested

I don't care, and couldn't possibly care less, because it's something that has absolutely no bearing or effect on my life.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't care, and couldn't possibly care less, because it's something that has absolutely no bearing or effect on my life.

Fine...

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

A fullness of joy can only come to God’s children if they are sealed to their eternal mate and continue to raise up seed.

I want neither marriage nor children. I don't really see a need.

He wants us to marry and have children because that is the formula of the universe that can cause a fullness of joy.

Not everyone wants to or should be a parent.

Homosexual couples cannot have a continuance in eternity, because they cannot generate any increase.

How does this work? Does heaven ban the childless? Do you only exist in your kids? Do you value children as their own persons or are they just tools, like a hammer or screwdriver?

They cannot create as God creates

We can't make people out of dirt, true, but God hasn't done that in ages, right? Maybe He forgot how?

That change is possible through the merits and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus will force gays to have sex and reproduce with the opposite gender? Is he like those fetishists who just like to watch or something?

The people of Israel had made a covenant with the Lord that they would do all things that He required of them, however they ended up being very stubborn and they were quick to forget the promise they had made with God.

God also promised them a wonderful life outside the lavishness of Egypt, and they ended up in a war-torn desert where supposedly everyone wanted to kill them.

Not only this, but the punishments were harsh, because Israel was so easily swayed to committing various sins.

Maybe God should evaluate the effectiveness of the consequences He thought up?

That was one of the reasons why the Lord required them to destroy all the people of ancient Palestine, because those people had been idolaters and if left to mingle with Israel, the Israelites would have fallen prey to their false gods.

I'm under the impression archaeology shows that Hebrews would simply have been one Canaanite tribe amongst many, plus they didn't kill everyone off, plus Joshua likes to exaggerate his military prowess. Again, maybe they were asking Baal for help because Yahweh promised a lot and they were living hard lives out in Nowheresville when they could've been much better off in Egypt.

Therefore, in order to keep Israel pure, as He promised, the Lord commanded that various lifestyles be completely obliterated.

Racism is an ugly thing and being gay has nothing to do with it.

The Lord treated such actions as infections among the people of Israel and commanded that they be burned out, lest they spread.

Yet you could kill bratty kids, because being a horrible parent was much better for society in general?

It is very important that you understand that the Lord did not want to do any of this. He did not want to judge Israel collectively or to put people to death for committing homosexual acts. He wanted Israel to be kind and loving and righteous.

I don't believe it either. I believe MOSES, MIRIAM AND AARON did. They clearly took those people for a ride and got nearly all of them killed off.

That is not possible because that would make God a liar.

God condemned adultery in the Big Ten and made Hosea keep his adulterous wife. God flip-flops quite often, really.

Anything else is not a fullness of joy.

I don't think my father believed we were his fullness of joy.

How can you seriously tell children from abusive homes that it is better than having loving gay parents?

They cannot have an increase. Their kingdom ends with them.

It's laughable you think kids make you a monarch.

If you want imaginary subjects, go buy some dolls.

Then the same must be true of spinsters, bachelors, and the infertile.

AND "because they cannot generate any increase" substantiates your belief that god does indeed care about population growth.

Maybe if He'd stop killing off whole sections of the population at one time, they wouldn't need to breed like rabbits after every disaster.

 

[Sonofason]

While God may tolerate homosexuals (He never really comes out and condemns such people), according to the Bible it's clear He detests homosexual acts, both male and female. He even wants men who engage in homosexuality to be put to death. Three passages in particular address His distaste. (If there are other direct scriptural references feel free to share.)

Leviticus 18:22 (ERV)
22 “Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!

Leviticus 20:13 (ERV)
13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Romans 1:24, 26-27 (ERV)
24 People wanted only to do evil. So God left them and let them go their sinful way.

26 Because people did those things, God left them and let them do the shameful things they wanted to do. Women stopped having natural sex with men and started having sex with other women. 27 In the same way, men stopped having natural sex with women and began wanting each other all the time. Men did shameful things with other men, and in their bodies they received the punishment for those wrongs.​

Currently, it's estimated that from 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the population identify as LGBT.* With the current world population now hitting close to 7.5 billion, and considering God's attitude in Leviticus 20:13, this means there are between 112 - 635 million people (homosexuals) He feels are better off dead.

Pretty drastic of a loving god if you ask me. So the question arises: Just what the heck does God find so abhorrent about homosexual activity? He certainly doesn't leave any clue. Perhaps He may doth protest too much?

Anyone care to take a stab?


*The demographics of sexual orientation and gender identity in the United States have been more accurately studied in the social sciences in recent decades. In the first large-scale government survey measuring Americans’ sexual orientation, the NHIS reported in July 2014 that 1.6 percent of Americans identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent identify as bisexual. In a Williams Institute review based on an June–September 2012 Gallup poll, approximately 3.4 percent of American adults identify themselves as being LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender). An earlier report published in April 2011 by the Williams Institute estimated that 3.8 percent of Americans identified as gay/lesbian, bisexual, or transgender: 1.7 percent as lesbian or gay, 1.8 percent as bisexual, and 0.3 percent as transgender. The 2011 Williams Institute report also states that 8.2 percent of Americans reported that they had engaged in same-sex sexual behavior, and 11 percent reported some same-sex attraction. Studies from several nations, including the U.S., conducted at varying time periods, have produced a statistical range of 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the adult population identifying as LGBT. Online surveys tend to yield higher figures than other methods,[4] a likely result of the higher degree of anonymity of Internet surveys, which elicit reduced levels of socially desirable responding.
Source: Wikipedia


.

According to scriptures the path to destruction is wide, and the path to everlasting life is very narrow.

Friends, the earliest known epistles from the apostle Paul to Timothy were written in Greek. There is certainly no English version of these letters that predate the hand written copy of them that we find in The Codex Sinaiticus; and they were written in Greek. Thus, if we are sincere about understanding Paul's intent and meaning of what he wrote, we must look at the Greek from which all known translations of these epistles came.

Knowing very well that laws are not made for the righteous, but for sinners, Paul compiles a list of the sort of person for which the law was intended;

"for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...)"
(1 Timothy 1:9-10)

I have emboldened the words in question that pertain to this discussion.

Interestingly, if we were to translate these words back into the Greek, they would say, "αυτά που οι ίδιοι μολύνουν με την ανθρωπότητα". But these words are not found at all in the original Greek manuscripts. In fact, in the original Greek, we find only one word in the space allotted for all of these words that we find in the King James version of the Bible. The word, in the Greek was and is, "ἀρσενοκοίταις" It is the only word used and is the same word in all Greek translations of this section of this verse of the Bible.

So what is this word? Many of the words we use in English are closely related to words we find in Greek. So how does this word sound phonetically?
The English transliteration of ἀρσενοκοίταις, is "arsenokoitais".

Do you see the "arse" in this word?
Do you see the "koitais" in this word?

What do these sounds mean to you?
Well, it just so happens that we have definitions for these words in english.

arse -

1. a often vulgar : buttocks —often used in emphatic reference to a specific person <get your A** over here> <saved my a** (edited for profanity)
   b often vulgar : anus
2. usually vulgar : sexual intercourse

Definition of ARSE


koitais (coitus ) - sexual intercourse
Google

Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what Paul is talking about. And the Bible says that the law was made for the kinds of people who engage in these kinds of acts. And I assure you, if the law is made for a kind of person, then the penalties that the Bible prescribes for this kind of person will have a full effect upon them.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

According to scriptures the path to destruction is wide, and the path to everlasting life is very narrow.

Friends, the earliest known epistles from the apostle Paul to Timothy were written in Greek. There is certainly no English version of these letters that predate the hand written copy of them that we find in The Codex Sinaiticus; and they were written in Greek. Thus, if we are sincere about understanding Paul's intent and meaning of what he wrote, we must look at the Greek from which all known translations of these epistles came.

Knowing very well that laws are not made for the righteous, but for sinners, Paul compiles a list of the sort of person for which the law was intended;

"for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...)"
(1 Timothy 1:9-10)

I have emboldened the words in question that pertain to this discussion.

Interestingly, if we were to translate these words back into the Greek, they would say, "αυτά που οι ίδιοι μολύνουν με την ανθρωπότητα". But these words are not found at all in the original Greek manuscripts. In fact, in the original Greek, we find only one word in the space allotted for all of these words that we find in the King James version of the Bible. The word, in the Greek was and is, "ἀρσενοκοίταις" It is the only word used and is the same word in all Greek translations of this section of this verse of the Bible.

So what is this word? Many of the words we use in English are closely related to words we find in Greek. So how does this word sound phonetically?
The English transliteration of ἀρσενοκοίταις, is "arsenokoitais".

Do you see the "arse" in this word?
Do you see the "koitais" in this word?

What do these sounds mean to you?
Well, it just so happens that we have definitions for these words in english.

arse -

1. a often vulgar : buttocks —often used in emphatic reference to a specific person <get your A** over here> <saved my a** (edited for profanity)
   b often vulgar : anus
2. usually vulgar : sexual intercourse

Definition of ARSE


koitais (coitus ) - sexual intercourse
Google

Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what Paul is talking about. And the Bible says that the law was made for the kinds of people who engage in these kinds of acts. And I assure you, if the law is made for a kind of person, then the penalties that the Bible prescribes for this kind of person will have a full effect upon them.

You forgot the "no" between "arse" and "koitais".....so it means no arse sex..

 

[McBell]

God is Our Father and He wants us to become like Him.

Then why all the accusations of "Playing God" from theists?
The claims of interfering with gods plans?

 

[McBell]

I would first like to clarify that God does not make anyone homosexual.

He gives us our own individual weaknesses or propensity toward certain sins, to keep us humble, but it is us who decide to act on those weaknesses and commit sin.

Ah yes, the infamous theist double talk....

 

[Prestor John]

I am disappointed because of your comments Skwim. I thought you handled yourself better than this.

I assume then that you consciously decided to be heterosexual, if that's what you are. Remember just when that was; in home room? When playing cowboys and Indians? On your thirteenth birthday?

"You know, I think I'll be attracted to girls rather than boys."

Is that what went through your head?

I did not consciously decide to be attracted to the opposite sex, but I did consciously decide when, where and with whom I acted on that attraction.

The same goes with those who suffer from a same-sex attraction. They did not consciously decide to be attracted to members of the same sex, but if they decided to act on that attraction, then they did so consciously.

Don’t assume that just because I do not suffer from a same-sex attraction that I do not suffer from other weaknesses that cause me to commit sin. I have many weaknesses and sin regularly.

However, with my knowledge of the truth that can be found in the Lord Jesus Christ, I know I can overcome my weaknesses and be forgiven when I falter.

I do a little better each day.

Well, when you said

"He wants His children to pair off, man and woman, and enter into a marriage covenant, live righteously and in complete fidelity, and then to procreate - increasing their joy with their posterity.

you do recognize, don't you, that a lot of children are unwanted by their parents, either as unwanted pregnancies or unwanted children; neither of which increases their joy.

This was where you began to be belligerent because you did not actually read my comments.

I was talking about what God wants for us. Obviously what He wants for us is based upon His precepts and ideals.

Notice that in my comment I mentioned that God wanted us to “live righteously and in complete fidelity.”

If we live our lives patterned after the example of the Lord Jesus Christ and follow the commandments of His Father, we will marry for the right reasons and both spouses will be honest, supportive and loving one with another.

If you truly love your spouse then you would have a desire to bring their children into the world.

The examples you brought up are created by those who decided not to live by God’s standards, which obviously is NOT what He wants for us.

If we live in obedience to His commands - we will want our children. We will want to nourish and strengthen them. We would live responsibly and within our means.

Please try not to skim my comments and jump to erroneous conclusions.

It makes you look bad.

Then the same must be true of spinsters, bachelors, and the infertile.

AND "because they cannot generate any increase" substantiates your belief that god does indeed care about population growth.

Again, you did not read my comment correctly.

What I said was, “Homosexual couples cannot have a continuance IN ETERNITY, because they cannot generate any increase.” (Caps and Bold added)

The infirmities of this mortal life (such as infertility) will not be with us in eternity.

God does not want His children to be alone, however, if they do not find an eternal mate in this life, they will have the opportunity to find one in the next and be sealed to them in the marriage covenant.

One of the reasons that the practice of homosexuality frustrates God’s plans for His children is because that when this life ends, they will be alone without an eternal mate. Not only this, but the desires that they cultivated in this life will still beset them, which will make it very difficult if not impossible for them to find an eternal mate in the next life.

They will be unable to produce seed in eternity, therefore their kingdom will end with them alone. They will have a modicum of joy ensured by the salvation from sin and death attained by the Lord Jesus Christ, but they cannot have an increase.

Because my comment was about reproduction in eternity, it had nothing to do with the population growth of this world.

So heterosexuals create just like god creates? God has sex with . . . . . whom?

Do not assume that I was suggesting that we use the same process for creation that God does.

All I said was that the ability to create can only be fulfilled by a man and woman in this mortal life.

Just because sex is the process to create life used in mortality, don’t assume that it is the same process used by God or by His righteous children in eternity.

No you didn't. The Bible says it.

Leviticus 20:13 (ERV)
13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Again, you failed to comprehend my comment. I said,

“I never said that God commanded ancient Israel to execute those who practiced homosexuality because they would not reproduce.” (Bold added)

I said this in response to a comment you made in post #300,

“And to put homosexuals to death because they [won’t] reproduce doesn't sound very loving or even understanding at all.” (Bold added)

God never said that the REASON He wanted those who practiced homosexuality to be put to death was because they would not reproduce.

I was merely point that fact out to you.

Yes, God commanded ancient Israel to put to death those who practiced homosexuality among them, but He never claimed that the reason was because they would not reproduce.

Which goes to my question of why He [abhors] homosexuality. Why?

Because it is damning. Literally

Imagine that our potential is like a river flowing unto the perfect day when we become like God the Father.

Living a homosexual lifestyle “damns” that river. It places a limit on the person’s potential. They fail to reach the goal of eternal marriage and increase.

I know it must be fun, to say nothing about being convenient, to make up stuff like this, but it's gotten old and tiresome.

Have a good day

You built up straw men and then burned them down. Talk about being convenient…

 

[Prestor John]

You're welcome.
The difference between our opinions is that mine is based on evidence and reason, actual facts. Yours is based on blind Faith in the humans who wrote your Scripture.
It is sufficient evidence to me that your God is a human Creation.
Tom

And what evidence, reason or actual facts have you presented?

i do not see anything but your opinion.

 

[Prestor John]

I want neither marriage nor children. I don't really see a need.

That’s fine. You will still have your reward.

Just don’t expect to become like our Father in Heaven or to receive a fullness of joy in the next life.

There is a place for you and you will be happy.

Not everyone wants to or should be a parent.

God wants us to become like Him and to receive a fullness of joy.

If people don’t want either of those things then He won't force it on them. There are places set aside for them. There are many kingdoms within His kingdom.

If, however, His children were living righteously, they would want to marry and have children.

How does this work?

Well, when a man and a woman love each other – they can make a baby.

When a man loves another man, or a woman loves another woman – they can’t make a baby.

We do not know the exact process by which this is done in eternity, but we do know that only a man and a woman who have been sealed together in the covenant of marriage can produce seed there.

Does heaven ban the childless?

No, I do not think so.

I am not talking about salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ suffered for all. Salvation is an individual thing. No one needs to be married or have children in order to be saved.

I am talking about what happens after we are saved.

A homosexual person can be saved, but then after they are saved they cannot have an increase, because they are alone.

Do you only exist in your kids?

No.

Take God for example. His existence and supremacy are independent of us, His children.

However, even though He is all-powerful and all-knowing, He spends His time and effort having children, teaching them, testing them and giving those who are worthy a portion of His divinity.

He does these things because they bring Him endless joy and glory.

Do you value children as their own persons or are they just tools, like a hammer or screwdriver?

I honestly don’t know what led you to this question.

My wife and children are one of my main sources of joy in this world and I know that we are one of God’s main sources of joy.

Perhaps you don’t understand because you have no desire to marry and have children.

We can't make people out of dirt, true, but God hasn't done that in ages, right? Maybe He forgot how?

This has nothing to do with what I said.

First, who is to say that God is not currently making more bodies for His children from the dust of the other worlds He continues to create?

He might be making another person right now on another world.

Lastly, the reason He does not make more bodies out of dust in our world is because He covenanted with Adam and Eve, our first parents, and gave the responsibility of creating more bodies for His children to Man.

Jesus will force gays to have sex and reproduce with the opposite gender?

No. No He will not. Where did you get this idea from? When have I spoken about “force” at all?

Through the merits and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we can change our nature and become Saints in this life and godly Beings in the life to come.

In this life, it is possible for someone who has a same-sex attraction to overcome that desire and enter into the covenant of marriage with their eternal mate of the opposite sex.

Is he like those fetishists who just like to watch or something?

No, He is your Lord and God who has given you everything you have and are.

I won’t respond to any other ridiculous questions like this one.

God also promised them a wonderful life outside the lavishness of Egypt, and they ended up in a war-torn desert where supposedly everyone wanted to kill them.

Yes, that is what happened because, as I said, the Israelites continually did not live up to their end of the bargain.

God made both unconditional and conditional promises to Abraham and his seed.

The Israelites would have had a much more enjoyable mortal existence had they been obedient to all the commandment of God.

Maybe God should evaluate the effectiveness of the consequences He thought up?

He did. The Law given to Moses was very effective.

I'm under the impression archaeology shows that Hebrews would simply have been one Canaanite tribe amongst many, plus they didn't kill everyone off, plus Joshua likes to exaggerate his military prowess.

The Bible clearly records that God commanded the Israelites to destroy all the peoples in Canaan and it also records that they did not do as He commanded.

They left some people alive.

Their disobedience led to many centuries of war and sin among them.

This is also an example of you not knowing the Bible. You seem to have just enough knowledge of it to sound like you know what you are talking about when you are actually ignorant of it.

Again, maybe they were asking Baal for help because Yahweh promised a lot and they were living hard lives out in Nowheresville when they could've been much better off in Egypt.

The disobedience of Israel led to their hard lives. Many of them did worship false gods, like Baal. Their lives would not have been better in Egypt because they were slaves there.

Racism is an ugly thing and being gay has nothing to do with it.

I agree and again I have no idea why you brought any of that up considering that it has nothing to do with my comment.

Yet you could kill bratty kids, because being a horrible parent was much better for society in general?

I find it interesting that you instantly consider the parents of a “bratty” child to be “horrible.”

Again, the harshness of the Law of Moses was what made it so effective.

I don't believe it either. I believe MOSES, MIRIAM AND AARON did. They clearly took those people for a ride and got nearly all of them killed off.

I believe that Moses was led by the Lord.

When did Israel nearly get killed off?

Are you talking about when God claimed that He would destroy them all and Moses begged on their behalf to spare them?

God condemned adultery in the Big Ten and made Hosea keep his adulterous wife. God flip-flops quite often, really.

The Lord commanded Hosea to marry Gomer so that He could demonstrate His own relationship with Israel.

God often referred to Israel as His “bride”, yet Israel was continually unfaithful to Him. Just as Gomer was not faithful to Hosea.

However, the Lord will never forsake Israel.

You can’t use a very specific instance where God set up a life lesson (like how He commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac) to try to paint the entirety of His Being.

I don't think my father believed we were his fullness of joy.

It is not possible to achieve perfection or a fullness of joy in this life. It comes after the Resurrection and Final Judgment.

However, we are supposed to try to live our lives as perfectly as possible and by so doing receive happiness in this life.

My children know that they are a great source of joy for me and I’m sorry that your father did not express that to you.

How can you seriously tell children from abusive homes that it is better than having loving gay parents?

I never said that. I honestly don’t believe that.

However, I do care that many religious organizations were forced to stop offering adoptions because of homosexual couples.

It's laughable you think kids make you a monarch.

I never said this either.

I am a monarch because I am a son of the King of the Universe.

Each and every one of us is a “kingdom” or a “world”. We all have the potential to increase our kingdom.

My kingdom will continue to grow because I have been sealed to my wife and we will continue to have increase throughout eternity.

The kingdom of a homosexual will end with them because they cannot have an increase.

If you want imaginary subjects, go buy some dolls.

Our God and Father has promised us that we can reign alongside Him if we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, do as He has commanded and remain faithful.

Maybe if He'd stop killing off whole sections of the population at one time, they wouldn't need to breed like rabbits after every disaster.

We have been talking about our families in eternity.

I don’t think you are mature enough or know enough about this topic to continue.

 

[Sonny]

This is not true.
Religion is everywhere and always has been. It was probably the main justification for the persecution of the Mormons in Missouri in 1833.
It's only been very recently that homosexuals could be at all open about themselves without being persecuted just as much as the Mormons 150 years ago. And it wouldn't be a big deal if people like the Mormons didn't feel entitled to persecute them, based on their religious beliefs.
Tom

Not sure how you can relate a homosexual lifestyle choice and Mormonism but...you ought to do 'some' unbiased (and personal) research before you accuse folks of doing what they didn't do, such as persecuting the early Mormons. Explanations are available if ur interested. And Hahn's Mill has a back story that you should read.

 

[columbus]

you ought to do 'some' unbiased (and personal) research before you accuse folks of doing what they didn't do, such as persecuting the early Mormons.

It was @Prestor John who posted about the persecution of early Mormons.

It did happen, the evidence is easy to find, but it was a Mormon comparing 200 year old persecution to current persecution.
Tom

 

[Sonny]

It was @Prestor John who posted about the persecution of early Mormons.

It did happen, the evidence is easy to find, but it was a Mormon comparing 200 year old persecution to current persecution.
Tom

Oh, ok. Thanks.
But just to be clear, it didn't happen as the LDS would have you to believe. Remember, there are 2 sides to every story. Simply bc one side keeps telling it their way often and loud does not make it true. Food for thot for the wise at heart and mind.

 

[Prestor John]

Not sure how you can relate a homosexual lifestyle choice and Mormonism but...you ought to do 'some' unbiased (and personal) research before you accuse folks of doing what they didn't do, such as persecuting the early Mormons. Explanations are available if ur interested. And Hahn's Mill has a back story that you should read.

Are you claiming that the early Latter-Day Saints were not subjected to persecutions?