What would it mean to your religious beliefs if evolution were true?

[SkepticThinker]

While I don't necessarily see anything wrong with drugs or alcohol, I am not a drug addict, just because I don't believe in God.

My father, on the other hand, was a drug addict and an alcoholic (and also a good, kind person) and guess what else? He was also a Christian. And he thought he was a piece of crap, because that religion told him he was one.

Of course, none of this relates to the point we were discussing.
' I don't see anything wrong with drugs/alcohol'. you just played yourself

You should have kept reading. Now you look silly. Oopsy.

 

[KWED]

What you say reminds me of Alister McGrath's view that religion and science have their own roles. Science explains the 'how' of natural phenomena while religion tells us the 'why' behind it all.

Not sure what the "why" question is, or why it is. Sounds a bit like question begging.

 

[stanberger]

1. Evolution is true. Do you think it might not be?
2. The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, or that even suggests evolution. (You keep making these claims about the Quran but fail to back them up when challenged. Let's see if you back this one up.)
3. So the Quran is wrong about Adam being the first human created by Allah.

1. Evolution is true. Do you think it might not be?
2. The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, or that even suggests evolution. (You keep making these claims about the Quran but fail to back them up when challenged. Let's see if you back this one up.)
3. So the Quran is wrong about Adam being the first human created by Allah.

the final step after man's evolution was god breathing his spirit into him[adam]. that makes us different from all the evolved animals ....they have no conscious they will poop right in front of you

 

[KWED]

could you enlighten us to evolution verses in bible please

could you enlighten us to evolution verses in quran please

 

[KWED]

the final step after man's evolution was god breathing his spirit into him[adam]. that makes us different from all the evolved animals ....they have no conscious they will poop right in front of you

How long ago did this happen. And where.
Did Allah breathe "Adam" into every evolved human on the planet, just one, a few, some?
How did it work, exactly, and what evidence do you have to support it?

I notice you "forgot" to quote the verses in the Quran that describe evolution.

 

[KWED]

no if's or but's. bible untrue.

So you don't believe in Abraham or Moses? Gosh!

no worldwide noah flood. quran says noah floods regional.

Really? You're still spouting this nonsense, even after it has been explained half a dozen times?

The Quran never mentions a "regional flood". It clearly describes a global flood. It would be physically impossible for the events in the Quran to take place without it being global.

earth spherical moves in orbit.

The Quran describes the sun and moon following each other in their orbits.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

quran 'at the hour the moon will split ' yet to happen ....stay out of hate sites mate

Such a dodge.

And no. If memory serves me right, this miracle was supposedly done on request of the polytheists at medina who questioned Mohammed and wanted to test his prophethood claim. The narrative goes that Allah accepted the prayer and split the moon in half for a night, that the polytheists all saw it and instead of believing they accused him of dark magic or some such.

I don't go to "hate sites".
I don't get my intel from "sites".

In any case, you accuse christians of believing in their "miracles". As a muslim you believe in exactly the same type of "miracles". Just different ones.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

the final step after man's evolution was god breathing his spirit into him[adam]. that makes us different from all the evolved animals ....

Every animal species is different from any other animal species.

they have no conscious they will poop right in front of you

/facepalm

 

[stanberger]

could you enlighten us to evolution verses in quran please

quran ' man was created in stages from the earth ' quran ' man created from dust water/mud'. quran 'all living things created from water '

 

[KWED]

quran 'at the hour the moon will split ' yet to happen ....

"Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet." - Sahih Bukhari.
There are many other references in the sunnah.

stay out of hate sites mate

Or perhaps you consider Muhammad's companions and renowned classical scholars to be "Islamophobes" and sunnah.com to be a "hate site"?
It seems that every argument you make and every defence you present simply falls apart at the first look.
Seriously, you should spend some time reading the Quran and sunnah with a classical tafsir rather than just looking at dawahganda videos on YouTube. You might learn something about Islam.

 

[KWED]

you have chosen disbelief and now will turn to drugs and alcohol to get through life. I'm a volunteer at aa I see it all the time. as for e and mine we will stay in islam no alcohol. no drugs just that alone is worth being muslim in life

Are you high? Do you really think that all non-Muslims are alcoholic drug addicts?
With all due respect, perhaps you should get out more?

 

[metis]

Off course I say this as an atheist, but why couldn't the process of evolution be the "divine means" by which "divine creation" occurs?...

So the point he was making is that the god who uses evolution to end up with humans is vastly more impressive and intelligent then the one who goes straight to the end product.

Yep.

When your beliefs don't match the evidence of reality.... it's not reality that is incorrect!

I totally agree.

 

[KWED]

quran ' man was created in stages from the earth ' quran ' man created from dust water/mud'. quran 'all living things created from water '

I asked for the references for the actual verses, not your idea of what you want it to say.
However, there are a few obvious problems with your claims...

1. The Quran does not say "man was created in stages from the earth". And the "stages" refer to the stages of the foetus (sperm drop, blood clot, etc - which is also wrong).
2. The Quran does not say "man was created from dust water/mud". It says "man was created from potter's clay". This is completely wrong. Clay is mostly composted of silica and aluminium - two elements almost completely absent from the human body. Although the idea of gods moulding living things from clay an breathing life into them las long been present in many creation myths from around the world.
3. "All living things created from water" contradicts the "man created from clay" verse. The Quran itself states that if it contains any contradictions it is not from god. (Also, god splitting the earth and the heavens and creating all live from water is from Sumerian mythology - polytheism that predated Islam by many centuries. And all living things are not "created from water".

So we can see that your claims are not reasons for believing the Quran was written by a perfect god. In fact, they show that it was more likely to have been written by 7th century Arabs with a limited understanding of the world, drawing on earlier beliefs and customs.

 

[stanberger]

"Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet." - Sahih Bukhari.
There are many other references in the sunnah.

Or perhaps you consider Muhammad's companions and renowned classical scholars to be "Islamophobes" and sunnah.com to be a "hate site"?
It seems that every argument you make and every defence you present simply falls apart at the first look.
Seriously, you should spend some time reading the Quran and sunnah with a classical tafsir rather than just looking at dawahganda videos on YouTube. You might learn something about Islam.

one guys opinion[hadith] does not take authority of word of god [quran]. 'at the hour the moon split ' yet to happen. back in their time some muslims were pressured by the people of the book to show any miracle of Muhammad. they pointed to this verse ....they should have pointed to the quran. the real miracle

 

[KWED]

one guys opinion[hadith] does not take authority of word of god [quran]. 'at the hour the moon split ' yet to happen. back in their time some muslims were pressured by the people of the book to show any miracle of Muhammad. they pointed to this verse ....

So the sunnah is "one guy's opinion"?
Do you dismiss every hadith in this same, casual manner? Do you have any idea how important the hadith are in Islam?

BTW, the event was also narrated by Anas ibn Malik, Abdullah bin Masud, ibn Umar, Abu Ma'mar, ibn Jubayr. Are you calling all of those sahabah "Islamophobe liars"?

they should have pointed to the quran. the real miracle

OK. What is "miraculous" (has no possible natural explanation) about the Quran?
List your top 3 things and we can examine them.

 

[stanberger]

So the sunnah is "one guy's opinion"?
Do you dismiss every hadith in this same, casual manner? Do you have any idea how important the hadith are in Islam?

BTW, the event was also narrated by Anas ibn Malik, Abdullah bin Masud, ibn Umar, Abu Ma'mar, ibn Jubayr. Are you calling all of those sahabah "Islamophobe liars"?

OK. What is "miraculous" (has no possible natural explanation) about the Quran?
List your top 3 things and we can examine them.

1 even

So the sunnah is "one guy's opinion"?
Do you dismiss every hadith in this same, casual manner? Do you have any idea how important the hadith are in Islam?

BTW, the event was also narrated by Anas ibn Malik, Abdullah bin Masud, ibn Umar, Abu Ma'mar, ibn Jubayr. Are you calling all of those sahabah "Islamophobe liars"?

OK. What is "miraculous" (has no possible natural explanation) about the Quran?
List your top 3 things and we can examine them.

1. even nonmuclim scholars like pastor Bosworth smith concluded ' the quran is the only scripture preserved in its original language ' 2, the science in quran could not have been known by an illiterate man in the desert 1400 yrs ago. the Big Bang of creation evolution. universe expanding. blastocyst that clings/hangs from uterine wall. 3. the quran is archived in a way no other SCRIPTURE has ever been archived it came down as a recitation memorized by millions recited every month of ramadan from start to finish in congregation. its verses used In the 5 daily prayers I have been to mosques in Indonesia to Istanbul to Culver City calif and witnessed a imam forget a word in a verse and two or 3 congregants would remind him from memory .....hpe this answers your question but of course Mose folks will stay ingrained in what they were aught to believe. I left church and examined all the religions before accepting islam in 2002

 

[KWED]

1. even nonmuclim scholars like pastor Bosworth smith concluded ' the quran is the only scripture preserved in its original language '

Meaningless.
There are many literary works still available in their original language, some much older than the Quran.
Also, I thought you rejected anything that was just "one guy's opinion".

2, the science in quran could not have been known by an illiterate man in the desert 1400 yrs ago.

1. There is no "science" in the Quran that was not already known at the time.
All your claims have been refuted in detail, with references. Yet you keep repeating them. It is the height of dishonesty (I won't call it "intellectual dishonesty" for obvious reasons).

the Big Bang of creation

The Quran does not describe the Big Bang in any way. The passage you refer to is not only completely wrong but also originates in polytheist Sumerian mythology.

evolution.

The Quran never mentions evolution.

universe expanding.

Again, no mention. The word in the passage you are referring to describes size and greatness, not expansion. But as you've never read the Quran you wouldn't know this.

blastocyst that clings/hangs from uterine wall.

The description of human embryology in the Quran is inaccurate and incomplete. It is also no better than that described by Galen and Aristotle centuries earlier (and which one of Muhammad's companions had studied at Gundeshapur)

3. the quran is archived in a way no other SCRIPTURE has ever been archived it came down as a recitation memorized by millions recited every month of ramadan from start to finish in congregation. its verses used In the 5 daily prayers

As has already been explained, memorising complex literary works is nothing miraculous (- especially if it is regarded as something important, so people make the effort to fulfil it). People do it every day, all round the world, for a number of reasons .

I have been to mosques in Indonesia to Istanbul to Culver City calif and witnessed a imam forget a word in a verse

So despite the miraculous memorisation miracle, even imams still forget bits of it. How impressive!

I left church and examined all the religions before accepting islam in 2002

It doesn't seem that way. One gets the impression that you chose Islam to antagonise your overbearing pastor father. Your inability to rationalise or defend your decision certainly points in that direction.

 

[stanberger]

Meaningless.
There are many literary works still available in their original language, some much older than the Quran.
Also, I thought you rejected anything that was just "one guy's opinion".

1. There is no "science" in the Quran that was not already known at the time.
All your claims have been refuted in detail, with references. Yet you keep repeating them. It is the height of dishonesty (I won't call it "intellectual dishonesty" for obvious reasons).

The Quran does not describe the Big Bang in any way. The passage you refer to is not only completely wrong but also originates in polytheist Sumerian mythology.

The Quran never mentions evolution.

Again, no mention. The word in the passage you are referring to describes size and greatness, not expansion. But as you've never read the Quran you wouldn't know this.

The description of human embryology in the Quran is inaccurate and incomplete. It is also no better than that described by Galen and Aristotle centuries earlier (and which one of Muhammad's companions had studied at Gundeshapur)

As has already been explained, memorising complex literary works is nothing miraculous (- especially if it is regarded as something important, so people make the effort to fulfil it). People do it every day, all round the world, for a number of reasons .

So despite the miraculous memorisation miracle, even imams still forget bits of it. How impressive!

It doesn't seem that way. One gets the impression that you chose Islam to antagonise your overbearing pastor father. Your inability to rationalise or defend your decision certainly points in that direction.

anyone else get the feeling that this poster is a pastor in church who is realizing christianity is on its last legs Newsweek ' today 54 percent of Americans do not believe Jesus is god ' [that seems low to me]. meanwhile U S A Today. 12/15/17 ' today islam is the second most followed religion in 22 u s states ' remarkable considering the last 22 yrs of islamophobia

 

[SkepticThinker]

anyone else get the feeling that this poster is a pastor in church who is realizing christianity is on its last legs Newsweek ' today 54 percent of Americans do not believe Jesus is god ' [that seems low to me]. meanwhile U S A Today. 12/15/17 ' today islam is the second most followed religion in 22 u s states ' remarkable considering the last 22 yrs of islamophobia

No. And you didn't address the content of his/her post.

 

[KWED]

anyone else get the feeling that this poster is a pastor in church who is realizing christianity is on its last legs Newsweek ' today 54 percent of Americans do not believe Jesus is god ' [that seems low to me]. meanwhile U S A Today. 12/15/17 ' today islam is the second most followed religion in 22 u s states ' remarkable considering the last 22 yrs of islamophobia

Oh, you are funny!
However, it does seem that you are more concerned with Christianity than with Islam. In almost every response to a post about Islam, you talk more about Christianity. There is obviously some strong attachment still there. Perhaps a deep seated feeling of inadequacy in not living up to your pastor father's high standards (was this where the alcohol and drugs came in?) and rather than work towards reconciliation you instead sought to widen the gap by running into the arms of the only thing guaranteed to wind him up more than the substance abuse - Islam. I have a feeling you will be back in the fold once you have resolved your personal issues.
Good luck. I hope it all turns out well for you.