What will Abraham do if he returns to life? Will he believe in the Trinity

[shmogie]

He went to Hades if we translate that literally. The place in Greek mythology of the dead "shades" also known as spirits of the dead.


Well that's obvious. I never said otherwise.


Jesus had no need to say today in that case. So why does Jesus need to say "truly I say to you today; you will be with me in paradise"?

Why bother saying "today" at all? It makes no sense. The thief already knows that Jesus is telling him "today".

Who talks like that anyway?

So this is just a loop hole for you. Sorry.

Well we can't "know" that. But, no one claimed He went to heaven. If you look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus you will find that Abraham's bosom is in Hades not heaven. That is most likely the paradise Jesus spoke of.

In both Greek and Hebrew beliefs. Hades or in Hebrew Sheol is the place where the dead are. The spirits of those who died. Clearly according to Jesus there; in Hades there is a place for righteous souls; where they will be comforted. This is not to be confused with the resurrection of the just; which does not take place until Christ returns.

Do you contend that the spirit is the same as the soul ?

 

[74x12]

Do you contend that the spirit is the same as the soul ?

No. The soul is you. It's who you are. Your stream of consciousness. The continuation of your thoughts. Your mind, will and emotions.

The soul is like a flame basically. Every flame needs fuel to keep burning. That's where your brain comes in. It's a physical organ of your body that the soul dwells in. But when you die then the soul departs the physical body(the fuel is gone so the flame cannot continue there anymore) but the soul stays in the spirit body. Wherever the spirit body goes; the soul will go with it.

When the resurrection happens; then the just will receive new immortal glorified bodies to live in. In the meantime they are disembodied spirits. But it's not a negative thing.

 

[Thief]

I want to know until I learn

you want to know.....until you learn....

to want
to know
to learn
all in the same sentence and one before the other

well if it is Christian faith you wan to learn.....
know the parables of the Carpenter

 

[shmogie]

He went to Hades if we translate that literally. The place in Greek mythology of the dead "shades" also known as spirits of the dead.


Well that's obvious. I never said otherwise.


Jesus had no need to say today in that case. So why does Jesus need to say "truly I say to you today; you will be with me in paradise"?

Why bother saying "today" at all? It makes no sense. The thief already knows that Jesus is telling him "today".

Who talks like that anyway?

So this is just a loop hole for you. Sorry.

Well we can't "know" that. But, no one claimed He went to heaven. If you look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus you will find that Abraham's bosom is in Hades not heaven. That is most likely the paradise Jesus spoke of.

In both Greek and Hebrew beliefs. Hades or in Hebrew Sheol is the place where the dead are. The spirits of those who died. Clearly according to Jesus there; in Hades there is a place for righteous souls; where they will be comforted. This is not to be confused with the resurrection of the just; which does not take place until Christ returns.

I suggest you speak with a Hebrew rabbi

No. The soul is you. It's who you are. Your stream of consciousness. The continuation of your thoughts. Your mind, will and emotions.

The soul is like a flame basically. Every flame needs fuel to keep burning. That's where your brain comes in. It's a physical organ of your body that the soul dwells in. But when you die then the soul departs the physical body(the fuel is gone so the flame cannot continue there anymore) but the soul stays in the spirit body. Wherever the spirit body goes; the soul will go with it.

When the resurrection happens; then the just will receive new immortal glorified bodies to live in. In the meantime they are disembodied spirits. But it's not a negative thing.

Ok, then do you contend that we are immortal, in one form or another ?

 

[j1i]

you want to know.....until you learn....

to want
to know
to learn
all in the same sentence and one before the other

well if it is Christian faith you wan to learn.....
know the parables of the Carpenter

Thank you brother for sharing and hope you are fine and healthy

my understanding may be weak
But my humanity is ultimate strong

I found honestly until now that Christianity is contradictory and Not configurable
all because the trinity

with respect
and I love you my brothers Cristian's
don't be sad

GOD bless you
AMEN

 

[74x12]

Ok, then do you contend that we
are immortal, in one form or another ?

Those who are saved are.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you contend that the spirit is the same as the soul ?

I find Adam became a living soul at Genesis 2:7. So, Adam had No spirit of life before he became alive.
So, to me ALL of Adam, his body, soul and life's spirit was Adam.
At death Adam became a dead soul or life-less person. All of Adam went to the dust - Genesis 3:19.
Whereas, life's spirit went out just like a burned-out light bulb goes out.
So, it is one's life's spirit that returns to God just as a foreclosed house goes back to its owner.
The house does Not move, the house does Not go anywhere, but just is now in the owner's hands.
The Owner's hands in this case is God, so any future life (resurrection) for that person rests in God's safe hands.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok, then do you contend that we are immortal, in one form or another ?

Since ALL of mortal Adam died at death, then we are mortal being from father Adam.
God did grant immortality (life from within) to His faithful sinless Son according to John 5:26.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

very strange when
Is that the prophecies say frankly that he will be one of the descendants of David
But then they said that he was the son of God
Why did GOD not say clearly that his son would come out of a woman of David genealogy?
with full respect for all

God did Not ascend or descend, but rather God sent his pre-human heavenly Son to Earth to be born of Mary.
I think perhaps Isaiah 32:1 can help about David in that when David is resurrected he will be a Prince on Earth.
Psalms 45:16 says instead of fathers shall be your children..... Princes in all the Earth.
Meaning Not literal little children or minor children, but because Jesus is ' father '(life giver) in the resurrection.
Ezekiel 34:23-24 mentions David as a Prince. So, through Jesus as Messiah and resurrection father, David will be resurrected as a Prince.
Ezekiel 37:24-25 also connects David to be a Prince forever on Earth (due to Jesus will be the one resurrecting dead David).
David has Not yet been resurrected according to Acts of the Apostles 2:34.

 

[viole]

Welcome to my sister and welcome to you
I hope you are well and healthy and well

It is illogical that God descends from heaven to come out of the birth of a woman
While angels descend and are easily formed in human form without the need to be born of a woman
God could have descended into human form without having to be formed into a pregnant woman

Angels VS GOD Because they appear more competent

very strange when
Is that the prophecies say frankly that he will be one of the descendants of David
But then they said that he was the son of God
Why did GOD not say clearly that his son would come out of a woman of David genealogy?

Why was it mentioned that he would be descended from David without mentioning that he would be the Son of God

This prophecy must be very precise because it speaks of Jesus

It clearly shows that the story is wrong


with full respect for all

Thank you. I am well, healthy and well.

I appreciate your appeal to logic. However...

It is also illogical that God sends cabs in the form of winged horses to pick up prophets when He could simply zap them into heaven. Horses, winged or not, are not so comfortable when pressure drops to zero as it usually happens in outer space. That also makes their wings useless.

It is also highly illogical to believe that black meteorites are stones sent by gods, and go worship them, lol.

Ciao

- viole

 

[shmogie]

Thank you brother for sharing and hope you are fine and healthy

my understanding may be weak
But my humanity is ultimate strong

I found honestly until now that Christianity is contradictory and Not configurable
all because the trinity

with respect
and I love you my brothers Cristian's
don't be sad

GOD bless you
AMEN

Since ALL of mortal Adam died at death, then we are mortal being from father Adam.
God did grant immortality (life from within) to His faithful sinless Son according to John 5:26.

 

[shmogie]

The question was for someone else

 

[shmogie]

I find Adam became a living soul at Genesis 2:7. So, Adam had No spirit of life before he became alive.
So, to me ALL of Adam, his body, soul and life's spirit was Adam.
At death Adam became a dead soul or life-less person. All of Adam went to the dust - Genesis 3:19.
Whereas, life's spirit went out just like a burned-out light bulb goes out.
So, it is one's life's spirit that returns to God just as a foreclosed house goes back to its owner.
The house does Not move, the house does Not go anywhere, but just is now in the owner's hands.
The Owner's hands in this case is God, so any future life (resurrection) for that person rests in God's safe hands.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......

Right, but the question was for another

 

[shmogie]

Those who are saved are.

Please provide verses to prove this

 

[74x12]

Please provide verses to prove this

John 11:25-26

 

[j1i]

Thank you. I am well, healthy and well.

I appreciate your appeal to logic. However...

It is also illogical that God sends cabs in the form of winged horses to pick up prophets when He could simply zap them into heaven. Horses, winged or not, are not so comfortable when pressure drops to zero as it usually happens in outer space. That also makes their wings useless.

It is also highly illogical to believe that black meteorites are stones sent by gods, and go worship them, lol.

Ciao

- viole

Peace be upon you
I appreciate you sharing this interest and opening frank topics and this I like

There are two logic
Reasonable logic and unreasonable logic totally
You know that the Queen of Britain puts the jewels on the crown on her head as a kind of luxury
Will the gemstone increase the value of the British Queen
I mean will she get forgiveness?
As well as Muslims put the white stone, a rare stone as part of the construction of the Kaaba as a grateful
We do not worship the stone but it was put to honor the Kaaba for its majesty
Mecca (bakka) mentioned in the Bible a weeping valley or crying

The Issue of moving through a horse ride is a miracle, even if it came back a thousand years ago, people will not believe that NASA exists

And also the images in the ancient ruins show the presence of a winged horse and that exists

hmmmmm
Qilin in korea
kirin in japan
pegasus
Flying horses - Wikipedia
List of winged horses - Wikipedia


The totally unreasonable logic is the extreme cognitive dissonance
We know that God is great and he is the creator of the all universe
Then some people claim that God is born in the form of a baby coming out of the womb of a woman
While the angels are human in a manner appropriate to them

At least denying the horse does not mean that logically convinced of The idea of the contradictory Trinity > _ < Or leave faith in God in Islam like Abraham mosses and others before Jesus
God is the origin of existence and If we start counting, we start from one and this is God. He is the first
I am not convinced that God will bring down His flame to be picked up by others to enslave us
I will not accept slavery to creatures, even if they are scientifically superior

It is not fair that I have a disability in walking challenge a sportsman deserved to win
Is this handicap binding to the worship of the athlete for his superiority?
The sports man gets the prize only, but it does not mean that people are humiliated and should worship him
Only a medal honored
God is one for all mankind and for all the world



note
about stone (very rare element) in kaaba
if I get married a woman
I will buy for her the best jewels and necklaces that suits her value
Love is arrhythmia

God bless you
AMEN

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Right, but the question was for another

...and I was hoping you would make a comparison to the answer for another with what I posted.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Nobody has *the fullness of truth*. God never has revealed every detail of every thing... We're likely being spoon-fed, one bite at a time.

Truth takes in so much...like science, past history, etc.

I like the way you put that...."one bite at a time"! Nicely stated!

 

[j1i]

Thank you. I am well, healthy and well.

I appreciate your appeal to logic. However...

It is also illogical that God sends cabs in the form of winged horses to pick up prophets when He could simply zap them into heaven. Horses, winged or not, are not so comfortable when pressure drops to zero as it usually happens in outer space. That also makes their wings useless.

It is also highly illogical to believe that black meteorites are stones sent by gods, and go worship them, lol.

Ciao

- viole

Peace be upon you
I am very happy to communicate with you and with all friends
I believe that the difference does not spoil the friendliness

I love who criticizes and asks
Because the answer is a way of communication between peoples, they must know each other

Regarding our dialogue on logic
And about the flying horse
I want to inform you that Muhammad did not say that the horse has two wings

In the Qur'an he places beautiful references on the space scientifically and I will remember a small part of them

chapter (the compassionate 55)
33. O society of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the bounds of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and pass. But you will not pass except with authorization.

34. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

35. You will be bombarded with flares of fire and brass, and you will not succeed.
second translate
35 will send you a shrapnels of fire and copper, so you will not win
how muhammed know that meteorite contents cooper metal
This is unusual for reference
There is no historical book mentioning that some meteorites contain copper

also

chapter 72 (the jinn) said
1. Say, “It was revealed to me that a band of jinn listened in, and said, ‘We have heard a wondrous Quran.
2. It guides to rectitude, so we have believed in it; and we will never associate anyone with our Lord.
3. And Exalted is the Grandeur of our Lord—He never had a mate, nor a child.
4. But the fools among us used to say nonsense about God.
5. And we thought that humans and jinn would never utter lies about God.
6. Some individual humans used to seek power through some individual jinn, but they only increased them in confusion.
7. They thought, as you thought, that God would never resurrect anyone.
8. We probed the heaven, and found it filled with stern guards and projectiles.
9. We used to take up positions to listen in; but whoever listens now finds a projectile in wait for him.
10. We do not know whether ill is intended for those on earth, or if their Lord intends goodness for them.
11. Some of us are righteous, but some of us are less than that; we follow divergent paths.
12. We realized that we cannot defeat God on earth, and that we cannot escape Him by fleeing.
13. And when we heard the guidance, we believed in it. Whoever believes in his Lord fears neither loss, nor burden.


this verse is open my mind for something
8. We probed the heaven, and found it filled with stern guards and projectiles.(meteorites)

I concluded
1- The existence of a capper belt probably
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

2- The creatures at that time before 1400 were also able to view space with sophisticated techniques
I mean the creature of the jinn which isolated beings
3-The Jinn was shocked and impressed by the fake idea that Jesus was the Son of God (trinity)
They wanted to make sure these words were true to go to heaven but They were not authorized

4- The jinn can fly into space But Muhammad rode with Gabriel and not with demons or jinns



with respect
GOD bless you and all people
AMEN

 

[viole]

Peace be upon you
I am very happy to communicate with you and with all friends
I believe that the difference does not spoil the friendliness

I love who criticizes and asks
Because the answer is a way of communication between peoples, they must know each other

Regarding our dialogue on logic
And about the flying horse
I want to inform you that Muhammad did not say that the horse has two wings

In the Qur'an he places beautiful references on the space scientifically and I will remember a small part of them

chapter (the compassionate 55)
33. O society of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the bounds of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and pass. But you will not pass except with authorization.

34. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

35. You will be bombarded with flares of fire and brass, and you will not succeed.
second translate
35 will send you a shrapnels of fire and copper, so you will not win
how muhammed know that meteorite contents cooper metal
This is unusual for reference
There is no historical book mentioning that some meteorites contain copper

also

chapter 72 (the jinn) said
1. Say, “It was revealed to me that a band of jinn listened in, and said, ‘We have heard a wondrous Quran.
2. It guides to rectitude, so we have believed in it; and we will never associate anyone with our Lord.
3. And Exalted is the Grandeur of our Lord—He never had a mate, nor a child.
4. But the fools among us used to say nonsense about God.
5. And we thought that humans and jinn would never utter lies about God.
6. Some individual humans used to seek power through some individual jinn, but they only increased them in confusion.
7. They thought, as you thought, that God would never resurrect anyone.
8. We probed the heaven, and found it filled with stern guards and projectiles.
9. We used to take up positions to listen in; but whoever listens now finds a projectile in wait for him.
10. We do not know whether ill is intended for those on earth, or if their Lord intends goodness for them.
11. Some of us are righteous, but some of us are less than that; we follow divergent paths.
12. We realized that we cannot defeat God on earth, and that we cannot escape Him by fleeing.
13. And when we heard the guidance, we believed in it. Whoever believes in his Lord fears neither loss, nor burden.


this verse is open my mind for something
8. We probed the heaven, and found it filled with stern guards and projectiles.(meteorites)

I concluded
1- The existence of a capper belt probably
Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

2- The creatures at that time before 1400 were also able to view space with sophisticated techniques
I mean the creature of the jinn which isolated beings
3-The Jinn was shocked and impressed by the fake idea that Jesus was the Son of God (trinity)
They wanted to make sure these words were true to go to heaven but They were not authorized

4- The jinn can fly into space But Muhammad rode with Gabriel and not with demons or jinns

I believe you make the same mistake that. Christians do. Quoting your sacred book as if it had any authority to us. We believe those books have been written by men (literally) and are just made up stories that share the same plausibility as Mickey Mouse adventures. Why people believe one and not the other is just a mere accident of birth.

If you were born in ancient Greece you would now proselytize the virtues of Apollo.

So, using them as evidence to skeptics of anything is frankly ridicolous.

with respect
GOD bless you and all people
AMEN

Yoh could have saved some typing by saying only “God bless all people” since I am a member of that set.

But thanks anyway.

Ciao

- viole