What Should the West do about Jihadists?

[Nakosis]

For Jihadist, I mean middle eastern folks who hate western culture, western ideas. For example I've see films, documents from Palestine where young boys are taught that western culture is evil. Everything about the west should be despised.

People who believe they are fighting against evil. Any act of violence against the west is justified. How should America, Europe handle these people? Should we write them off. Take any steps necessary to keep them out of the west or should we feel compassion, let them in and hope things will work out? Maybe they need to be deprogrammed. How do we identify them, how do we change their indoctrination into Jihadism?

 

[David1967]

Definitely take measures to keep violent jihadists out of the country. "How", is the tricky part. As far as people who have been indoctrinated since early childhood to hate us? Are they curable? I don't know. To cross reference brainwashed children from another time, A friend of mine who served in WW2 in Europe 1944-45, said of the Hitler Youth, that they were brainwashed since small children and there was no changing their minds. Kinda the same thing.

 

[icehorse]

I think your definitions are a bit off from mainstream. I would say that the folks you described are commonly called "Islamists", to me "jihadist" smacks too much of terrorism.

IMO, the first thing we need to do is get the word out that Islamism is NOT a fringe group, it's a major force and we should deal with it accordingly.

An easy test is that - for the most part - anyone who wants Sharia to the the law is an Islamist and we should not compromise with them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Whatever it is we do with xenophobic, jingoistic, nationalist, militarist, "Make America Great Again" hat wearing Americans.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Some problems do not have immediate answers. Give it time, and someone will think of something. Besides there is no guarantee that the 'West' is going to survive anyway. We can hope that the best parts of western culture do continue, and I believe that they will if we all can keep it together.

...People who believe they are fighting against evil. Any act of violence against the west is justified....

That is unfortunate, but fortunately they are not fighting against evil and are mostly just pointing fingers.

How should America, Europe handle these people? Should we write them off. Take any steps necessary to keep them out of the west or should we feel compassion, let them in and hope things will work out?

Really important world events are not exciting but boring. Getting excited about problems is not the same as caring about the world. I guess the most important thing is to ignore the sensationalist elements on youtube for the most part, ignore sensationalist news and to ignore anybody who is constantly excited about world events. The really important news is the news that you ignore. The sensational news is the news fed to you to make you believe that you care.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

We need to see that we are evil and anything Muslims may have done, or do, is directly our fault. We should let them into our country, without restrictions or limits, so that we can all live in peace together. Maybe, if we're lucky, their natural honor and goodness will rub off on us.

At the very least, women in this country would be treated better, as Islam cherishes and protects women. I imagine our rape culture would probably get better if we had millions of more Muslims transplanted here from Africa, the Middle East, and Southern Asia.

To anyone who doubts this, just look at all the European nations. They have allowed millions of Muslims into their countries over the last decades, and it has resulted in a virtual paradise of peace and prosperity for all.

 

[Augustus]

Stop tolerating the intolerant (and not just for Wahabbis)

Revoke the rights of people who use those rights to call for the removal of other people's rights.

The principle of reciprocity says you should only get the rights that you are willing to accept others have.

 

[Brickjectivity]

For the sake of those who do not have English as a first language: I believe Kilgore may be putting some English onto his language and mean the opposite of what he or she is saying as one places a little spin onto a billiard ball. It is a contextually perceived dynamical and advanced perceptual language tool.

 

[siti]

For the sake of those who do not have English as a first language: I believe Kilgore may be putting some English onto his language and mean the opposite of what he or she is saying as one places a little spin onto a billiard ball. It is a contextually perceived dynamical and advanced perceptual language tool.

Nope - he was just talking through the right wing of his ironic hat!

 

[Nakosis]

Some problems do not have immediate answers. Give it time, and someone will think of something. Besides there is no guarantee that the 'West' is going to survive anyway. We can hope that the best parts of western culture do continue, and I believe that they will if we all can keep it together.
That is unfortunate, but fortunately they are not fighting against evil and are mostly just pointing fingers.
Really important world events are not exciting but boring. Getting excited about problems is not the same as caring about the world. I guess the most important thing is to ignore the sensationalist elements on youtube for the most part, ignore sensationalist news and to ignore anybody who is constantly excited about world events. The really important news is the news that you ignore. The sensational news is the news fed to you to make you believe that you care.

Are you familiar with the booklet "The Search for Peace in the Middle East"? Published in 1970? It's conclusion seems pretty bleak. Especially since things seemed to have only gotten worse is the last 47 years. (1970 seems like ancient history to me now, yet also somehow a familiar time.)

No one can hate the Friends and of course the Friends hate none.

As the world gets smaller, we seem to get more divisive. Also I see some parallels between Rome and the US. I suspect the Romans felt their empire would be able to sustain itself much longer then it did. Parts of western culture came from Rome. I do expect the US to fall at some point. Maybe it's a fantasy to think we can hold onto western culture.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Are you familiar with the booklet "The Search for Peace in the Middle East"? Published in 1970? It's conclusion seems pretty bleak. Especially since things seemed to have only gotten worse is the last 47 years. (1970 seems like ancient history to me now, yet also somehow a familiar time.)

No, I have not seen that.

No one can hate the Friends and of course the Friends hate none.

I am a new visitor to the Quakers and am not a member, but I will probably join. That's right the official name is the Society of Friends, and they tend to be very peace loving. Pacifism is not a requirement, however.

As the world gets smaller, we seem to get more divisive. Also I see some parallels between Rome and the US. I suspect the Romans felt their empire would be able to sustain itself much longer then it did. Parts of western culture came from Rome. I do expect the US to fall at some point. Maybe it's a fantasy to think we can hold onto western culture.

Maybe not. Psychologically the West is still recovering from WWII. In fact the venom in Palestine is largely a transfusion from that war through Arafat I think. When fathers are killed they can no longer provide sage advice to the headstrong children, and so many fathers have died in wars. There was bound to be trouble and so there has been. I am fortunate to have had two grandfathers. They were both survivors of WWII, but not everyone has had such luck.

I'm saying there is more than one way to account for the bad luck we've experienced over the last 47 years. There are a lot of evils we're recovering from. Russia was even harder hit then we were in both world wars, plus the whole thing with Stalin and another string of bad luck with meteors and famines and so forth. They are still recovering just like we are. I don't expect the US or Europe or Russia to stop being the west, not any time soon. Old enemies will become friends again. I think what's changed is now we are going to add Africa, South America and China as major world powers into the mix, and memories of old wars are going to have to fade.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Whatever it is we do with xenophobic, jingoistic, nationalist, militarist, "Make America Great Again" hat wearing Americans.

... make them President of the United States..?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

For the sake of those who do not have English as a first language: I believe Kilgore may be putting some English onto his language and mean the opposite of what he or she is saying as one places a little spin onto a billiard ball. It is a contextually perceived dynamical and advanced perceptual language tool.

... called 'sarcasm'.

 

[Nakosis]

No, I have not seen that.

You might find it interesting.
https://www.afsc.org/document/search-peace-middle-east

I am a new visitor to the Quakers and am not a member, but I will probably join. That's right the official name is the Society of Friends, and they tend to be very peace loving. Pacifism is not a requirement, however.

I had a friend, acquaintance really who was a Quaker. I was pretty impressed with their view of, everything, really. Had thought at one time if there was a religious group I'd join it'd be the Quakers. Just no meetings/churches nearby. Apparently theism is not required either.

 

[Milton Platt]

For Jihadist, I mean middle eastern folks who hate western culture, western ideas. For example I've see films, documents from Palestine where young boys are taught that western culture is evil. Everything about the west should be despised.

People who believe they are fighting against evil. Any act of violence against the west is justified. How should America, Europe handle these people? Should we write them off. Take any steps necessary to keep them out of the west or should we feel compassion, let them in and hope things will work out? Maybe they need to be deprogrammed. How do we identify them, how do we change their indoctrination into Jihadism?

A better question to ask might be "How should the Middle Eastern countries handle jihadists" since the problem seems to originate in their culture and religion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

... make them President of the United States..?

Damn, didn't think of that.

 

[idav]

For Jihadist, I mean middle eastern folks who hate western culture, western ideas. For example I've see films, documents from Palestine where young boys are taught that western culture is evil. Everything about the west should be despised.

People who believe they are fighting against evil. Any act of violence against the west is justified. How should America, Europe handle these people? Should we write them off. Take any steps necessary to keep them out of the west or should we feel compassion, let them in and hope things will work out? Maybe they need to be deprogrammed. How do we identify them, how do we change their indoctrination into Jihadism?

Educate the people who want to see the world end in order to trigger Christs second coming. There are a lot of eager Christians too, it isn't just jihadists waiting for Jesus to come back.

 

[Brickjectivity]

You might find it interesting.
https://www.afsc.org/document/search-peace-middle-east

Thanks I've downloaded it now and skimmed each page -- not seeing anything new. A suggestion: I sometimes look at the Council on Foreign Relations web site cfr.org and have found their resources worthwhile as well as up-to-date. The Quaker AFSC is a very active institution in the pursuit of peace, however it is not an expert on Judaism, Israel, Gaza and West Bank or Islam though it does have some knowledge of each.

I think the paper by the AFSC does not pick up on Israel's long term perspective of peace. It focuses on all the wrongs done to all the parties in the ME by the Europeans, the Arab nations and the international committees, and it gets lost looking at the trees wondering how to bring peace about in the short term as if that is the only way to get peace. Claiming eternal war is the #1 mistake Gaza makes. It threatens war without end, and to Israel that is a ridiculously impossible claim, because eventual lasting peace is an article of faith. Israel will sit with guns pointed at it for a hundred thousand years and continue to believe in and expect a final lasting peaceful relationship with its neighbors. If Gaza simply recognizes this idea of a possible eventual lasting peace it will make huge strides in negotiations. Its a tiny thing, a slight change that Gaza can make with huge implications for negotiations.

I had a friend, acquaintance really who was a Quaker. I was pretty impressed with their view of, everything, really. Had thought at one time if there was a religious group I'd join it'd be the Quakers. Just no meetings/churches nearby. Apparently theism is not required either.

Fellowship is considered a worshipful act and Quakers say there is 'Of God in everyone'. If there is of God in everyone, then serving them is still serving God whether they are theists or not.

 

[Augustus]

I had a friend, acquaintance really who was a Quaker. I was pretty impressed with their view of, everything, really. Had thought at one time if there was a religious group I'd join it'd be the Quakers. Just no meetings/churches nearby. Apparently theism is not required either.

Quakers were one of the major forces in the abolitionist movement from the 17th C onwards and Quaker business owners were pioneers of ethical capitalism during/after the industrial revolution, and other social justice movements.

They are a disproportionately influential group in Western history.

 

[psychoslice]

Simple, kill them all.