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Featured What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by sovietchild, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. sovietchild

    sovietchild Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with destroying the idols?
     
  2. sovietchild

    sovietchild Well-Known Member

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    Source please.
     
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  3. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan Мы дети Богов

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    What is wrong with destroying all those things? It's just a book, it's just a building, and he's just a man.
     
  4. sovietchild

    sovietchild Well-Known Member

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    Is there any benefit in those idols?
     
  5. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Well, it's quite rude for starters. It's very thug like behavior, which is frowned upon because it's destructive and disrespectful to other people.
    You don't see me tearing down Mosques. Because in a civilized society one recognizes that respect should be given to other people and their right to worship (or not worship) anyway they see fit. It's a fundamental human right recognized across the world over. So to destroy idols that one may or may not worship directly deprives someone of that right, thereby persecuting them. Now destroying an idol one owns is the one exception because you officially and legally own it. Still a rather pointless endeavor, I mean you might as well tear up a book you own. What's the point?
    If you destroy an idol that belongs to someone else or even a country (like a landmark or something) then it's actually vandalism and destruction of property, which is illegal in most countries.
    In any case, it comes down to basic civility and respect.
    I mean honestly, manners cost nothing.
     
    #165 SomeRandom, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  6. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan Мы дети Богов

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    And you're still not getting it. Worse, despite dozens of replies and explanations, you're not listening. Are you sure Islam means "peace"? Because it seems to mean "respect us while we trod all over you."
     
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  7. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    Unfortunately, @paarsurrey you have only Muhammad to blame for the continuing misunderstanding here as it is he who personally smashed the statues/idols in the Al Kaaba Al Musharrafah after his forces occupied Mecca. In theory, most human animals would seek to correct a perceived gross injustice and many Muslims seem prone to following your so-called "prophet" in merrily destroying anything they find offensive. A clear difference between the actions of Muhammad himself, the alleged messenger of THE god and that of said god's ramblings in his dreary little book.Please
    Regards?
     
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  8. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    It must be some kind of Ahmadhi revisionist quackery. I've never come across that type of explanation before and I've read extensively about the period. I will defer to @Augustus as he is a walking encyclopedia. :)
     
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  9. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Do you know a hadith or a verse which instructs Muslims to destroy the idols?
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    Beats me, @FearGod. I'm just working from memory here.

    I do not vouch for the accuracy or legitimacy of the following but it seems about right.
    Obligation to destroy idols - islamqa.info
     
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  11. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member
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    The Hadith is not a very good book to read, full of violence.
     
  12. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    If that was true then how can we explain that idols still exist in Egypt till this day?
     
  13. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Can't say it's anything I've read about. As you know, it's certainly not the 'traditional' narrative, which has the idols being broken at Muhammad's request following their victory over the Meccans.

    A tent was pitched for him where he offered prayers of thanks to the All-Mighty Allâh, Who, out of His immense grace, had granted him a splendid victory. But he did not repose long. He, in the company of the Helpers and Emigrants, got
    up and proceeded towards Al-Ka'bah, the Sacred House, which is an emblem of the Oneness and Supremacy of Allâh. It was unfortunately infested with idols that numbered 360. He knocked them down with his bow while reciting the verse of the Noble Qur'ân: "And Say: 'Truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism or this Qur'ân or Jihâd against polytheists) has come and Batil (falsehood, i.e. Satan or polytheism, etc.) has vanished. Surely! Batil is ever bound to vanish.'"[17:81]...
    He denounced these acts of Quraish and ordered that all idolsbe dismantled, images and effigies deleted.

    (The Sealed Nectar)

    Seeing as most of the Sirah was made up centuries after the fact though to explain and contextualise the Quran, the event probably never happened in the first place though (and because, textually at least, the Quran reflects a significantly 'Abrahamic' environment rather than a pagan one).

    I suppose this affords more creative license in how the 'event' can be remembered.
     
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  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    One can only believe that it is because early Muslims never saw it as particularly important to destroy them, suggesting that modern Wahabbi types who are obsessed with destroying idols are engaging in a form of innovation.
     
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  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Fair point. It does not.

    I guess there are people who follow that up with a perceived need to address the injustice with further action.

    Like others in this thread, I commend you for thinking better than that.
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    If one cannot quote a verse where Quran has commanded one to destroy the idols, then please comply at least to the request from friend @FearGod .
    Regards
     
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    paarsurrey said:
    sovietchild said:
    Prophet Luqmaan once said to his son "O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice."

    "O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice."
    The verse does not speak of demolishing the idols. Is it? Please
    Regards
    "O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice."
    The better point is that one concentrates on the reasons/arguments given in the above verse (any many others) namely doing "gross injustice by believing in idolatry". Please
    Regards
     
  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Please attend to post #176 , if one please, and don't be angry.
    That is the core solution.
    Regards
     
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  19. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "fundamental human right"

    Muhammad cared for all the humans rights rather he was the champion of the human rights. We follow Muhammad, not the politically motivated Terrorists of any time and place. Please
    Regards
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    That is one of the focal points. The idolators must answer, if they please.
    Anybody, please
    Regards
     
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