What is wrong with idol worship?

[Surya Deva]

Has anyone ever been to a cemetary to visit the grave of someone and found yourself talking out loud or in your mind to the headstone or even just the name on the headstone ? it strikes me as rather similar like a "need" to personify that which isnt there.

The same applies to non-idol worship. They too are personifying something which isn't there, and if we concede the possibility that it might be, then you will also have to concede the possibility that the deceased soul the person in the graveyard is trying to talk to is really there.

 

[Jehonadab]

The object you user to personify God cannot perform any act for you. The bible states at John 4:23, 24 "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind or worship the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." You using an image/idol means you are not worshipping in spirit but based on what your eyes see.

 

[kai]

The same applies to non-idol worship. They too are personifying something which isn't there, and if we concede the possibility that it might be, then you will also have to concede the possibility that the deceased soul the person in the graveyard is trying to talk to is really there.

oh i conceed the possibility, but only just

 

[want to be hindu]

Every day that I drive someplace I see little pictures of people praying before a large cross, on the back of many cars. Is this idol worship? I believe it is not. The cross is just a reminder of your beliefs about Christ.

Some Hindus (not all) use idols to remind us of God. Do we believe that the clay is god ? No we dont. It is all just to remind us of God.

If God comes in the form of a dove, it is holy. But if He comes in the form of a cow, it is heathen superstition; condemn it! That is how the world goes. That is why the poet says, "What fools we mortals be!" How difficult it is to look through each other's eyes, and that is the bane of humanity. That is the basis of hatred and jealousy, of quarrel and of fight.


Swami Vivekananda in 1893 in Chicago, to address the World Religions Conference.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

[/b]Please let us not go down this route: I am well aware that your religion is against idol worship, but the answer, "Idol worship is wrong because it is against my religion" is circular. I am asking for a valid reason why it is wrong .The account you just cited does not help your case, it just makes your religion seem highly intolerant and violent towards others. Your account shows this man Ibrahim smashing to pieces the idols of another religion, what gave him the right to do that? Come on we all know how Islam spread throughout Arabia, Africa, Europe and India, indeed smashing to pieces other religions isn't far from the truth.[/font]

Well, first of all thank you for your peacful talk, it seems you hate muslims and islam, but if this is a personal problem don't mention it here please

I know that islam is a peacful relegion, so don't try to instigate others to hate islam.

anyway lets go back to the "stones and woods" idols ,

and please answer my question

is it necessary to imagine God?

in islam worshipping God means to honor him and to thank him.

so do you thank God by honoring stones and woods [in specific shape]

you have two roads ok !, one of them is straight , the other is crooked

which one would you choose in order reach your target ?

so why won't you worship God directly without a silly mediator?

 

[want to be hindu]

so do you thank God by honoring stones and woods [in specific shape]

you have two roads ok !, one of them is straight , the other is crooked

which one would you choose in order reach your target ?

so why won't you worship God directly without a silly mediator?

Not all Hindus use idols. Some do have idols were they pray. No good Hindu believes that a stone or wood is a mediator for God. The Murti (Idol) of the Hindu is used to remind us of God.
Sacred images are not worshipped as such but are merely meditational aids to help focus on the all-pervading world-soul (Brahman).

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Personally would interpret idol worship this way:
Everything is part of God and so praying anything means that you are bowing [surrendering your EGO} before that essence called god which is everywhere and in everything. It is for the convenience that an image that one like is used for the purpose.
Finally the image is redundant.
Love & rgds

 

[Azakel]

The object you user to personify God cannot perform any act for you. The bible states at John 4:23, 24 "True worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind or worship the Father wants. God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth." You using an image/idol means you are not worshipping in spirit but based on what your eyes see.

But those who use "Idols" in the religion don't worship or God, so why should he care? Why should you?

 

[Surya Deva]

Well, first of all thank you for your peacful talk, it seems you hate muslims and islam, but if this is a personal problem don't mention it here please

I never said I hate anybody. Am I critical of Islam? Yes. Just as I am critical of every religion, including my own.

I know that islam is a peacful relegion, so don't try to instigate others to hate islam.

I am sorry but you instigated possible hatred towards Islam by posting an account where you are showing this man Ibrahim of going around breaking to pieces the objects of worship of other religions as some kind of proof that idol worship is wrong. Please let it be known to you myself belonging to a religion that idol worships, and also there are many people on this forum who are pagans and idol worshippers, posting stuff like this is only going to potentially upset people, especially considering the history.

I welcome critical comments against idol worship and will be more than happy to address them, but if you go down the route of saying idol worship is wrong because your religion destroyed everybody who idol worshipped, then expect more harsh comments. I don't think Muslims of the modern age should be highlighting this kind of past, rather they should highlight the positive areas of their religion, especially considering the attitudes towards them in the world.

in islam worshipping God means to honor him and to thank him.

so do you thank God by honoring stones and woods [in specific shape]

you have two roads ok !, one of them is straight , the other is crooked

which one would you choose in order reach your target ?

so why won't you worship God directly without a silly mediator?

Sorry it is only your assumption by uttering a few words out loud or in your mind you are directly thanking god. The assumption that by worshipping a statue made of stone, wood or metal is also directly thanking god is just as valid.

In my religion both are just as valid as one another. It goes onto say that the best way of thanking 'god' is by serving the world. As the divine is manifest everwhere and his greatest manifestation is the love in all hearts. Touch that love and you directly communicate with 'god'

 

[zenzero]

Friend Mohammad Beruti,,

anyway lets go back to the "stones and woods" idols ,
and please answer my question
is it necessary to imagine God?
in islam worshipping God means to honor him and to thank him.
so do you thank God by honoring stones and woods [in specific shape]
you have two roads ok !, one of them is straight , the other is crooked
which one would you choose in order reach your target ?
so why won't you worship God directly without a silly mediator?

Besides the response from friend Suraj maybe my earlier response could enlighten you which is:

Friends,
Personally would interpret idol worship this way:
Everything is part of God and so praying anything means that you are bowing [surrendering your EGO} before that essence called god which is everywhere and in everything. It is for the convenience that an image that one like is used for the purpose.
Finally the image is redundant.
Love & rgds

Next, the choice mentioned in Sanatna Dharma are more in numbers than covered by any known religion or Paths or Ways mentioned by either Islam, Christianity or others because here there is total freedom to choose the medium to merge with God depending on the individual's nature. If one wants to use his imagination by using a form which even Christians too [every church has the image of Jesus] or meditate simply imagining an imaginary god like muslims.
Zen however do not use either, the just watch their MINDS and their thoughts.
All religions or paths or ways are correct.
If to you something looks SILLY then it only shows your MIND as would say in ZEN.
Understanding is the first step towards the no-mind.
Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend Mohammad Beruti,,

anyway lets go back to the "stones and woods" idols ,
and please answer my question
is it necessary to imagine God?
in islam worshipping God means to honor him and to thank him.
so do you thank God by honoring stones and woods [in specific shape]
you have two roads ok !, one of them is straight , the other is crooked
which one would you choose in order reach your target ?
so why won't you worship God directly without a silly mediator?

Besides the response from friend Suraj maybe my earlier response could enlighten you which is:

Friends,
Personally would interpret idol worship this way:
Everything is part of God and so praying anything means that you are bowing [surrendering your EGO} before that essence called god which is everywhere and in everything. It is for the convenience that an image that one like is used for the purpose.
Finally the image is redundant.
Love & rgds

Next, the choice mentioned in Sanatna Dharma are more in numbers than covered by any known religion or Paths or Ways mentioned by either Islam, Christianity or others because here there is total freedom to choose the medium to merge with God depending on the individual's nature. If one wants to use his imagination by using a form which even Christians too [every church has the image of Jesus] or meditate simply imagining an imaginary god like muslims.
Zen however do not use either, the just watch their MINDS and their thoughts.
All religions or paths or ways are correct.
If to you something looks SILLY then it only shows your MIND as would say in ZEN.
Understanding is the first step towards the no-mind.
Love & rgds

 

[Heneni]

This is why you should not follow or worship idols.

This is what the LORD says:

"What fault did your fathers find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.

 

[Azakel]

This is why you should not follow or worship idols.

This is what the LORD says:

"What fault did your fathers find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.

That's nice, calling other people and the religions worthless.

 

[Heneni]

That's nice, calling other people and the religions worthless.

Was I calling them worthless? Im rather open to other religions, because I believe that god has revealed himself through many civilizations to many nations and to many people.

If you worship an idol, you are worthless...your idol makes you worthless...i dont, neither does god.

God is in the business of making that which is worthless into something that is worthy.

God takes broken lives, and fixes them.

God takes broken hearts, and heals them.

God takes lies, and gives you truth.

While you were still a sinner and completely unworthy of anything good, god gave his son.

God makes something out of 'nothing'.

What has your idol done for you lately?

What has money done for you? Make you happy?
What has celebrities done for you?
What has your family done for you?
What has gossip, lying and pride done for you?

If you think it has made you more of a good person...then you have actually become worthless.

You and I and everybody else, needs to understand that god lifts up...god makes right...god helps....

What has your idol done for you lately?

To what level are humans not willing to go to make themselves feel worthy?

Dont we buy big houses and fancy cars because we wanna feel good about ourselves?
Dont we step on people in business to get ahead so that we can feel like we have made it?

I think that that which we idolize, that which we want and want to become...that which we look up to..is that which you become. And according to god...you are to look unto jesus...who is worthy of your admiration.

If you look unto other things..you will become worhless just like it is worthless.

At least my god is trying to tell you the truth....but alas...if youd prefer to believe somebody else. That is your business. Believe yourself then...if you look up to yourself, you will never become more than yourself. If you look up to god...you will become greater than you are.

If you look unto worthless idols...you will remain worthless.

What worth would you have to an unworthy idol?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Heneni,
Sorry to state that your essay on God only shows that your god is an imaginary thing as in reality god never does anything; it is your own karma. The REAL God is working in YOU, in every cell that you are is god only. That *YOU* or *I* is a shadow or *EGO*.
Love & rgds

 

[blackout]

Was I calling them worthless? Im rather open to other religions, because I believe that god has revealed himself through many civilizations to many nations and to many people.

If you worship an idol, you are worthless...your idol makes you worthless...i dont, neither does god.

God is in the business of making that which is worthless into something that is worthy.

God takes broken lives, and fixes them.

God takes broken hearts, and heals them.

God takes lies, and gives you truth.

While you were still a sinner and completely unworthy of anything good, god gave his son.

God makes something out of 'nothing'.

What has your idol done for you lately?

What has money done for you? Make you happy?
What has celebrities done for you?
What has your family done for you?
What has gossip, lying and pride done for you?

If you think it has made you more of a good person...then you have actually become worthless.

You and I and everybody else, needs to understand that god lifts up...god makes right...god helps....

What has your idol done for you lately?

To what level are humans not willing to go to make themselves feel worthy?

Dont we buy big houses and fancy cars because we wanna feel good about ourselves?
Dont we step on people in business to get ahead so that we can feel like we have made it?

I think that that which we idolize, that which we want and want to become...that which we look up to..is that which you become. And according to god...you are to look unto jesus...who is worthy of your admiration.

If you look unto other things..you will become worhless just like it is worthless.

At least my god is trying to tell you the truth....but alas...if youd prefer to believe somebody else. That is your business. Believe yourself then...if you look up to yourself, you will never become more than yourself. If you look up to god...you will become greater than you are.

If you look unto worthless idols...you will remain worthless.

What worth would you have to an unworthy idol?

You know Heneni,
your god is not trying to tell me anything.

I have never taken anyone off my friends list before,
but I am seriously considering it now.

I am not worthless.
My I-doll(s) are not worthless.

I KNOW my I-doll has made me more of a person.

And I know that this entire post is nothing but drivel.

Save this one line...
"I think that that which we idolize, that which we want and want to become...that which we look up to..is that which you become".

And I for one absolutely LOVE and embrace and adore who I am BEcoming.

It is no wonder I am always so hesitant to "accept" christians as "friends".
So often they just have no god dam*ed idea how.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Heneni,
The point happened to miss in my last post was:
Kindly read my response post no. 71.
Love & rgds

 

[Heneni]

Oh yeh ego...i think there isnt anybody on this planet who doesnt have to work on theirs.

My god is not in my imagination. If you judge my god, you put yourself above god. You say god never does anything? God is at work ...he is working...is that doing nothing?

The reality is my god...jesus was not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Why should I shy away from it? Believe what you will, you are responsible for your own descisions and so am I. I'm not worried about public opinion or public praise. If I was id be more worried to keep my mouth shut in order to get another frubal. The same people that deny my god, presume to judge me according to what they think I should be. But you do not have the right to use my god as levearage against me when it suits you, and put god on ignore when it suits you better.

God judges me sometimes harsher than others....but he is very fair. Thats not always a 'good' thing according to some... He doesnt miss any spot or blemish on me...in fact he can spot many more than anybody I know. I still love him. He still loves me.

I'm afraid the truth will only make people angry before it will set them free.

I was angry for a long time...now im free. But i'm a work in progress and god is working on me all the time. I dont presume to have arrived, yet i run the race aiming for the prize. And god is my ultimate reward. What a great reward that is! Is there any reward greater?

Enlightenment is not what i'm after....i thirst and hunger for god. Whatever i can get im not worthy of...and im thankful for anything good that god sends my way.

We can very easily become our own idol. And for some people, enlightenment makes them feel superior to others. But enlightenment without god, is wisdom without understanding. God often works with a fool, because he does not presume to know everything...and then when god does, the world will call them fools, because they know something.

I dont pressume to think that people will like me...if i listen to the word of jesus, they wont. I have many friends dont worry..they are all over the place, looking out for me. They will be clapping their hands when i join them. I will have my comfort and security later. Right now...all i have is dishonor and contempt. But there are things that matter and then there are things that dont....for me...i look to the future with hope knowing that that which i suffer now and the stuff i loose now, is not comparable to that which i will receive in the future.

I'm sorry if i talk about my god in a too personal way. I suppose people would be more comfortable if i talk about god and not MY god, but my god and i have a relationship, i dont have to talk like he is not here, or im not his. If that = ego, then that is your choice.

Heneni

 

[zenzero]

Friend heneni,
Sorry, you miss the point.

Oh yeh ego...i think there isnt anybody on this planet who doesnt have to work on theirs.

My god is not in my imagination. If you judge my god, you put yourself above god. You say god never does anything? God is at work ...he is working...is that doing nothing?

There is no question of judging anyone's god. Love Jesus like an elder brother and so understanding what he experienced stated that:

The REAL God is working in YOU, in every cell that you are is god only. That *YOU* or *I* is a shadow or *EGO*.

Every cell that we have is God, whatever we do is God's doing.
Only on surrendering the *EGO* that one can see God in every action/ deeds/ things/etc.
Love & rgds

 

[.lava]

This is why you should not follow or worship idols.

This is what the LORD says:

"What fault did your fathers find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.

if you don't mind, Heneni, i would like to add something. there is one thing about God that is utterly misunderstood. that is God being omnipresent. it is interpreted as "everything is God" but God is not everything, God is the one who created everything. God also created time. but God is not depend on time. because God has ability to make time zero because God has unlimited velocity. for that matter God could witness any moment of time including past/now and future. we are depend on time. we perceive time linear. for us time passes by. for God, time is just a creature and God is without time and beyond it. so being omnipresent does not mean God is everything. God is omnipresent means God is not in time as we are. that's why verses about Dooms day, hell are said in past time and present in Qur'an. not in future tense.


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