What is wrong with idol worship?

[Heneni]

self deify-be the god,master of your own destiny ,cartographer of your own destination..

And reaper of your own mess...it that be the case.

 

[blackout]

Thank you once again for telling me what I believe.

Very thoughtful indeed.

 

[Sunstone]

Idols have the best candy.

 

[blackout]

And reaper of your own mess...it that be the case.

It is our inheratence.
We are co-Creators IN God Source.

Sometimes we make messes,
especially at first...
like children,
but there is a learning curve.

And after that innitial paradigm shift...
that first awe inspiring Xeper...

we reap only wonder & magic
as we REALize our own transformation.

Even "messes" speak of wonder...
and are often nothing more than the convergence of "matter"
before the breakthrough.

 

[blackout]

Idols have the best candy.

And the MOST frubals!:drool:

Will you be my Idol Phil? :shout:flirt:

 

[Darkwater]

And reaper of your own mess...it that be the case.

If that is your desired destination,which I would doubt,although chaos comes in many forms....Bringing order from chaos is more in line with mapping your own destiny,all you have are the tools you have always had,there being nothing new under the sun & this being exactly the same sh*t,just a different day for our eternal soul.

The very act of self deification would require a mirror image or deity,or both,to create the better you,so as you can become greater in your own image.You actively seek your higher power & inadvertantly *become* this.

I can look myself in the mirror & be very happy at having done my best,in love.

I have met with my entire oversoul & testified before them,as each of them have done,will do & are doing.Then you come to reralise the purpose of your birth,your divine spark,the eternal you.

My oversoul are predominatly male,I have been to female meetings which I find to be very weepy affairs,in great love which I scoffed at a bit....then I/my oversoul testified in front of the Fae,which explained a lot to me...after I met Enki of Sumerian Pantheon,in love.

Before you do begin Xeper by self deification,the past is just your *whatever*.You lay your burden down,approach yourself in love,accept yourself & love yourself ecstatically.your entire self from the time the decision was taken to end our immortality at Xanadu to take ridiculously short carbon based lifespans until it does unify again in love.

Hen I reckon you are still weighed down by baggage of some sort,as such unable to fully accept & love yourself fully to nth degree source energy,you maybe have a blockage or something...this is not my problem,of course.

 

[ax0547]

"I agree but still you seem to be under the illusion that a finite mind can conceive of the infinite. The mind is unable to realize God. If you think that god is different then your self then you too are an idol worshiper. "

- duude when did I say that mind can concive the infinite - logically then that would not be called "infinite". also OK so if mind is unable to realize god, the what is - our eyes - give me a break. Dude clearly we concieve with our senses and it is our barin/mind that makes us realize/self evaluate the information. And what is " If you think that god is different then your self then you too are an idol worshiper" supposed to mean. can you clarify - thinking that god is not a human makes me a idol worshiper? dude the definition of "idol" is "a form or appearance visible but without substance". that is "murati puja"="idol worship" that hindus do. You clearly know that idols are not god, therefore without substance - I don't want to argue on this now - since you are a educated person as you claim.

"No body who understands Hinduism believes this. Why would you say this. It is clear to me that you dont understand what Hinduism is about.Please stop telling us Hindus what we believe. I dont, and every educated Hindu I know dosnt believe this stuff that you claim we believe.

A murti (Idol) is used to focus the mind to calm it down and go into medetation to transend the mind . Hindus do not believe that we can create an accurate image of God. I believe that God is the ground of all being IT is to big to think about.

I could give your same arguement on Idols on the The Sikh practice of remembrance of the divine Name. How could a name represent God.How could any words a human could say represent God. God is to big for a Human to name IT. I would not do this because I know that the Sikhs use the name to focous the mind.I know you believe that God is infinet. I have respect for the sikh faith and would not try to mislead others. "

- Clearly my creating some physical representation is putting finite limits - the words themselves are not physically finite or visible - they are mere representations tha our brain can interpret.

and you should quote the whole context- this is what I said - ---
"Us as humans representing something as God does not make that idol God, God is Unseeable but only realizable - If you think you can represent it with something you create you are totally decieving yourself."
In the line before that I had clearly stated what kind of representation I meant - "representing something as God does not make that )( Idol God)(". I meant a physical representataion.

Also words do not create a physical representation in our mind - especially the one's that mean they are representing some infinte for our minds realization/understanding.

Also if you are so educated, whats the point of offerings to idols that is done is hindu temples.

please answer or comment on this too -
"You see in hinduism most idols represent one god- "or as some say one power aspect of one big god", then you are praying to that one aspect not the wholistic god. And god as a whole is god; if broken down in to pieces for example - sun god lighteing god etc. then that becomes part of god not "god". "

When we sikhs use word to represent god, we are representing with a wholistic meaning, not in parts. Now please don't say this is not concievable - As you are educated you probably know this. I mean all the sikhs realize it as such. Also if god is one and absolute, why pray to "demi-gods", which you yourself say do not exist.

Also please explain me one thing more - according to mahabarta - bhagwan Ram existed, also Krishna Ji, were they demi gods or the "god". and Bhrama ji is supposed to controling the whole world and also talked with Ram ji- how does this all work. Please don't take this as something rude - but I used to watch on TV, but still not able to concieve the relationship of gods as "physically" existant" who talk as humans, look like humans at the same time are representing something not physical, but whose actual words are recorded in vedas? this will be a big help.

 

[Darkwater]

Who says the mind is finite?

I am completely with you Ax..having experienced revelations & breakthroughs I never felt possible before,in greater love.

Before we can define alien we must first define human.

 

[blackout]

Every-thing is God.
God is All.

God speaks of different things...
well... through different things.
(idols)

And because each (potential)idol
illuminates as I-doll...
to the unique individual which it is "speaking"...

it also speaks of different things, at different times.

The Living Sentient & Evolutionary UniVerse speaks to me all the time.

In all kinds of things.
It speaks deeply and personally,
things I need to know to BEcome & REALize more fully.

I am always open for "things" to speak to me.
(objects, syncronistic situations....etc)
Sometimes they Deify.
Most things at most times remain as "potential" deification,
serving (presently) their more ordinary function(s).

(which is also an aspect of "God")

Of course all things are already Deity.
But the All usually prefers masterful Orchestration
to cacaphony...
when offering communication.

Though cacaphony certainly speaks of cacaphony.

Have I been clear?

 

[Surya Deva]

Also if you are so educated, whats the point of offerings to idols that is done is hindu temples.

It has nothing to do with education. It has to do with ones spiritual evolution. Are you capable of sitting down in prayer and directly entering into that divine realm without any kind of external means, a picture, a mantra, word? If you are, then congratulations, you are one of very few people in this world that have that ability. The rest of us have to rely on something. But eventually we too will evolve beyond using external objects to enter the divine.

When it comes to worship, just live and let live. As long as its harming nobody else, let whoever wants to worship, worship as they want. It is simply our means of contacting the divine and it is better than nothing.

 

[Darkwater]

Crystal Vi,

no-one's could descri BE better.......this is also known as *mirror magic* .....complexity flowing naturally & fully from simplicity.

Wow,how you have surpassed me on all things.

*holds your hand tighter*

in great love.

DW

 

[Don Penguinoini]

If you put your faith in something that, ultimately, will fail you, what is right about it?

Whether its a jar of rocks, the stock market, or a pop icon, and you idolize, you are setting yourself up for failure. People think that idolatry is just accrediting blame/praise to something inanimate or invisible, but it's more than that. Idolatry is ACTUAL RELIANCE, and it's foolish.

Oh, but praying to something you cannot see, hear, smell is better. A visual representation of god is powerful since it gives a person to thing about god when they see that image.

Does god care how he/she is worshipped? Shouldn't God be more worried about people and not how is he/she is worshipped?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Why waste time with an idol or image when you, yourself, acting as your own agent, can pray to the real God?

Since when were idols agents? The REAL god? What are you praying to in your head when you pray? A dark empty space? At least when i pray i have a visual image to remind me of god.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Idols are man-made, so they can not (and never will) resemble anything close to whatever God is actually like. Idol worship is an exercise in the celebration of man-made things (including some gods which they represent).

Its as close as we'll get.

Something is better than nothing.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I think people are hostile toward idol worshiping and polytheism in general because its so foreign to traditional beliefs. I was learning about Hinduism and their roots in Jainism and Buddhism in AP World History today. No offense, but the Veda just seems like a huge collection of fairy tales derived from nothing. I mean how does one reach the conclusion that there are 3 gods, they come in many disguises, and often hive thousands of eyes and mouths?? Hinduism represents such a wide array of beliefs that I hesitate to call it a religion.

First Hinduism has its roots in no religion, its the other way round.

And i hesitate to call your religion a religion. After such faithful muslims said "Behead those who do not believe in Islam" in the placquards (i have no clue how to spell that ) in London. You also believe you like a 100 virgins if you blow up a few hundred people.

Religion at its finest.

The conclusion is that there is one god in Hindusim. Pay attention to class.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

"I agree but still you seem to be under the illusion that a finite mind can conceive of the infinite. The mind is unable to realize God. If you think that god is different then your self then you too are an idol worshiper."

The finite mind cannot concieve the infinite mind. You are right. But, as i said, its the best that can be done, something is better than nothing.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Idols are not percieved to be directly god, just a representation of God. It seems to me that it is easier to have something physical to associate with God then NOTHING. A physical image sticks in the mind better than nothing.

 

[ax0547]

The finite mind cannot concieve the infinite mind. You are right. But, as i said, its the best that can be done, something is better than nothing.

sorry this is not my quote - apparently i did not know how to use quotes , but now I figured our.

 

[ax0547]

Idols are not percieved to be directly god, just a representation of God. It seems to me that it is easier to have something physical to associate with God then NOTHING. A physical image sticks in the mind better than nothing.

you seem to be not getting the point -you yourself are saying that physical image sticks easily - is that really god? - that is deception.

Yes thers no where that god says worship me- but in order to know what god is you need to study/understand/realize it = worship. and us saying god you are great or not great during hymns etc really does not matter to god/ no way to know if it does.

 

[ax0547]

It has nothing to do with education. It has to do with ones spiritual evolution. Are you capable of sitting down in prayer and directly entering into that divine realm without any kind of external means, a picture, a mantra, word? If you are, then congratulations, you are one of very few people in this world that have that ability. The rest of us have to rely on something. But eventually we too will evolve beyond using external objects to enter the divine.

When it comes to worship, just live and let live. As long as its harming nobody else, let whoever wants to worship, worship as they want. It is simply our means of contacting the divine and it is better than nothing.

hey suraj this is debate section - i won't go out there and start killing idol worshipers - thats you religious freedom.

also what does offering to idols means - that you know has no point- since idols are not god.

you need better rasons that this please.