what is the only thing that God did not create?

[PolyHedral]

So, this bring us back to the original post. Definitively God created the universe. Or even if you believe in the big bang, how would you call that unstopable moment that was passing during the creation of the universe?

This is what I've been saying. At all points in time, the universe existed. Saying that there was a single moment in which the universe was created leads to contradiction.

 

[Koldo]

In this case, it does. Sorry. (There's a bunch of mathematics behind the idea that it's not worth going into, since both of us will get lost)

I would disagree with this until i checked how people came to this conclusion. Anyway, i suppose we have better things to do than trying to figure this out.

Under the current models, it does not make sense to say the universe was created, because the universe includes time as a component. There was no point where time and therefore the universe did not exist.

So you mean that time is a part of the universe, so there was nothing before it. I am having a hard time trying to imagine this.

 

[BruceDLimber]

No, time is created because absent anything to measure, there is no time!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Vendetta]

In order for God to think, time must exist before He does.
In order for time to exist, spacetime must exist.
In order for spacetime to exist, the big bang must have happened.
It is therefore impossible for God to have created the universe. (Unless God is [youtube]vY_Ry8J_jdw[/youtube]
the Doctor, which is unlikely.)

I disagree.....

 

[Mike214]

The best way to cope with this dilemma is accepting the truth. God and Time are the same and always existed. The only thing new was the concept of time for the purpose of measuring events. If you disassociate yourself from the idea of measuring the duration of particular events and look at time as a whole, you will have a better understanding of God's true nature. Forget the duration of events, and try to visualize the continuos and eternal time in its universal dimension.

 

[PolyHedral]

Then stop using redundant terms. There's no reason to have semi-mystical notions about "God" when "spacetime" describes the exact same thing.

 

[outhouse]

I would disagree with this until i checked how people came to this conclusion. Anyway, i suppose we have better things to do than trying to figure this out.



So you mean that time is a part of the universe, so there was nothing before it. I am having a hard time trying to imagine this.

heres the simple version

we are two dimesional creatures living in a multi dimensional universe.

its hard to wrap your head around that I know, we see space and time. There is a great possibility an almost certainty that there is more. Its fact I believe among those who are educated in the field

 

[Thief]

Events on the microscopic scale take place entirely at random, with no possible cause. Although it's true that all causes lead to effects, not all effects have traceable causes.

I don't believe that.

And no one should.

Cause and effect are two sides of the same coin.
Can't have one without the other.

That you can't trace it...doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[Thief]

heres the simple version

we are two dimesional creatures living in a multi dimensional universe.

its hard to wrap your head around that I know, we see space and time. There is a great possibility an almost certainty that there is more. Its fact I believe among those who are educated in the field

We are...in a three dimensional reality.

The rest of the dimensions are on a chalkboard...along with the quotient we call 'time'.

Time is not a substance...nor a force.
It is a number...a measurement...nothing more.

 

[PolyHedral]

I don't believe that.

And no one should.

Cause and effect are two sides of the same coin.
Can't have one without the other.

That you can't trace it...doesn't mean it's not there.

It is what is implied by the uncertainty principle. Random, causeless effects are unavoidable, because no system can be measured perfectly, no matter how perfect the apparatus used.

We are...in a three dimensional reality.

Four.

 

[Thief]

It is what is implied by the uncertainty principle. Random, causeless effects are unavoidable, because no system can be measured perfectly, no matter how perfect the apparatus used.


Four.

And of course...four ...refers to that measurement I mentioned earlier.

And principles that are uncertain......are certain of what? (rhetorical)

 

[Mike214]

Then stop using redundant terms. There's no reason to have semi-mystical notions about "God" when "spacetime" describes the exact same thing.

I never mentioned space. Or you believe that everything that you see is God. Are you suggesting that God is evolving as our universe? Are you suggesting that you are God rather than part of His creation? The only thing that you posses from God is His Spirit which makes you live in Him, not your sinful body.

 

[PolyHedral]

I never mentioned space. Or you believe that everything that you see is God. Are you suggesting that God is evolving as our universe? Are you suggesting that you are God rather than part of His creation? The only thing that you posses from God is His Spirit which makes you live in Him, not your sinful body.

I am suggesting that "time" is also a vague notion. Spacetime is the more useful construct.

Statements like "God is time" are silly, because it means you are inventing terms where they don't need to be invented.

 

[Mike214]

I am suggesting that "time" is also a vague notion. Spacetime is the more useful construct.

Statements like "God is time" are silly, because it means you are inventing terms where they don't need to be invented.

I haven't invented anything. That is one of the cornestones of my church's doctrine, and one of my strongest convictions. Silly may be trying to refute another person's belief without convincing evidences. However, we believe that your viewpoint is also acceptable. There is no right or wrong, but variable perspectives, as Escalona, The Last Prophecy's author states.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

God did not create me.

 

[Thief]

God did not create me.

Sounds like a title for a thread.

Go for it.

 

[Breathe]

I'm surprised nobody said "Himself"...

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm surprised nobody said "Himself"...

Timey-wimey.

 

[Breathe]

Timey-wimey.

Wibbly wobbly.

 

[Mike214]

God did not create me.

God even led you to write down those words. What you are thinking now, and what you will be doing tomorrow.