What is the Message of the Book of Job?

[Shadow Wolf]

If anyone cannot see how that infinitely demeans any individual human life, then they are not reading properly.

I wouldn't say it's an issue of reading it properly, but failing to understand and realize just how cruel such a thing is - but even that is not so much an individual failure as it is the Conservative culture at large excusing even the worst behaviors found as the Bible as good because it's "God's will" and he has his ways and we can just never know or understand it. Which is an issue with much of that Bible, and a very real problem with such a literal interpretation. Life has no real value because life is nothing more than god's play thing, and Jehovah is up there with Zeus when it comes to abusing his power.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Nicodemus wasn't very "spiritual" . He thought being born again meant climbing back into his mothers womb and coming out again. So it would seem Jesus was right telling Nicodemus he needed to be born again of Spirit, to be able to interpret things spiritually, rather than literally.

Who said so, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of John? Obviously, what's new? How could a wise man of the kind of Nicodemus be that stupid? A dumb street person would not think that way.

 

[Kemosloby]

Who said so, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of John? Obviously, what's new? How could a wise man of the kind of Nicodemus be that stupid? A dumb street person would not think that way.

A dumb street person would not think what way?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Nicodemus wasn't very "spiritual" . He thought being born again meant climbing back into his mothers womb and coming out again. So it would seem Jesus was right telling Nicodemus he needed to be born again of Spirit, to be able to interpret things spiritually, rather than literally.

A Doctor in Law, perhaps with a PhD equivalent, thought that to be spiritually born again, one had to climb back into his mother's womb and come out again!!! Was that for the laughs or for the gags?

 

[Ben Avraham]

They weren't seeing eye to eye. Jesus said the the Pharisee.

"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?

Jesus was also an Israel's teacher. It means that the question was not his but of the Hellenist who wrote that gospel.

 

[Kemosloby]

Jesus was also an Israel's teacher. It means that the question was not his but of the Hellenist who wrote that gospel.

It makes more sense when you think of Jesus as the Lord who established the law of Moses, the author of what was to be taught.

 

[Kemosloby]

A Doctor in Law, perhaps with a PhD equivalent, thought that to be spiritually born again, one had to climb back into his mother's womb and come out again!!! Was that for the laughs or for the gags?

He said it, yes not getting what "born again" meant. he gave the smart response asking if he should go back into his mothers womb.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How do you interpret Job?

"Suffering exists in the world because God wills it. It isn't your place to question this or ask for a deeper answer because might makes right."

 

[Ben Avraham]

He said it, yes not getting what "born again" meant. he gave the smart response asking if he should go back into his mothers womb.

Oh! Sorry! I forgot that you guys believe by faith. That's why Paul said that Christians must walk by faith and not by sight which means understanding. (II Corinthians 5:7)

 

[Ben Avraham]

It makes more sense when you think of Jesus as the Lord who established the law of Moses, the author of what was to be taught.

Jesus established no law whatsoever. He fulfilled the laws down to the letter (Mat. 5:17-19) and warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Kemosloby]

Oh! Sorry! I forgot that you guys believe by faith. That's why Paul said that Christians must walk by faith and not by sight which means understanding. (II Corinthians 5:7)

You don't have to believe in Jesus to try and read it as if he is who he says, Lets say for instance it was a story, and the story goes, Jesus is God in the flesh, talking to one of the created beings named Nicodemus. Who walks only by what he can see, such as born again can only mean crawling back into his mothers womb then coming out again. But a man with inner sight, understanding which comes by faith, might get what Jesus meant.

 

[Kemosloby]

Jesus established no law whatsoever. He fulfilled the laws down to the letter (Mat. 5:17-19) and warned us all to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Where did Moses get the law?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Where did Moses get the law?

From communing with HaShem up on the Mount Sinai. Forty days were just enough to come out with the Decalogue.

 

[Ben Avraham]

You don't have to believe in Jesus to try and read it as if he is who he says, Lets say for instance it was a story, and the story goes, Jesus is God in the flesh, talking to one of the created beings named Nicodemus. Who walks only by what he can see, such as born again can only mean crawling back into his mothers womb then coming out again. But a man with inner sight, understanding which comes by faith, might get what Jesus meant.

What Jesus meant is in his own gospel aka the Tanach. What is claimed about him in the NT, was produced by the Hallenists former disciples of Paul who wrote the gospels.

 

[Ben Avraham]

He said it, yes not getting what "born again" meant. he gave the smart response asking if he should go back into his mothers womb.

Okay, as you wish!

 

[Kemosloby]

From communing with HaShem up on the Mount Sinai. Forty days were just enough to come out with the Decalogue.

It took longer than you might expect. It seems like the 40 days had some sort of symbolic meaning, or Moses was a very slow chiseler, a time and materials job even. So if a person had some sort of spiritual understanding they might grasp the significance of the 40 days.

 

[Ben Avraham]

It took longer than you might expect. It seems like the 40 days had some sort of symbolic meaning, or Moses was a very slow chiseler, a time and materials job even. So if a person had some sort of spiritual understanding they might grasp the significance of the 40 days.

Well, let's say Moses enjoyed the company with HaShem and stayed up there 40 days. What do you care? Are you gonna build your golden calf because he seemed to be taking too long?

 

[psychoslice]

The book of Job is a Jewish poem, its really up to you to whatever the message is, it all depends on your level of Consciousness, there is many meanings within the poem, take what you need, that which is helpful to you.

 

[Kemosloby]

Well, let's say Moses enjoyed the company with HaShem and stayed up there 40 days. What do you care? Are you gonna build your golden calf because he seemed to be taking too long?

Not enough gold. Noah was 40 days in the ark. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, therefore had Gods law in him. Moses 40 days in a mountain writing down God's law, which they put in an ark. Jesus fasted for 40 days then the devil tested him on the law. hmmm Can't say that I get it...

 

[Ben Avraham]

Not enough gold. Noah was 40 days in the ark. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, therefore had Gods law in him. Moses 40 days in a mountain writing down God's law, which they put in an ark. Jesus fasted for 40 days then the devil tested him on the law. hmmm Can't say that I get it...

I also agree that the Law was already with our patriarchal fathers before it was officially given to Moses in the Mount Sinai. Now, if what you mean by "The Devil tested Jesus on the Law" is according to the literal Devil of Christianity, it didn't exist. Devil is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.