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What is the Church?

Discussion in 'Ecclesiology DIR' started by SpentaMaynu, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. SpentaMaynu

    SpentaMaynu One /G\god(s)[dess]

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    What is your idea on what the church is? As far as I know there are two words normally used in greek, one is kurious meaning belonging to the Lord and the other is eklesia meaning to get together. Some say church is the people or the Body of Christ and other say it is just the building or the organization where Christians worship. So what's your opinion?
     
  2. Theodore A. Jones

    Theodore A. Jones Active Member

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    The scriptures describe the church as the body of Christ. However the contemporary 'churches' are not the same animal the scripture refers to as the body of Christ.
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Generally speaking with how it's used in context, probably the closest word is "community".
     
  4. Freducator

    Freducator Member

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    If I know my Greek, kyríous (κυρίους) would be "for the Lords", not "of the Lord". That would be kyríou (κυρίου).

    Anyway, my definition relies on Mt 18:20.

    Matthew 18:20
    "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

    So, to me, the church is very much the "ekklēsía".
     
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  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    The Church, in a spiritual sense, is the Kingdom of God on Earth, in Heaven and in Purgatory. It is the spiritual community of believers in Christ and even death cannot divide us.
     
  6. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    It is the pillar and ground of the Truth, the Body of Christ that cannot fall into heresy, though there may be a lot of numbskulls in the picture. It's a hospital for sinners, and only the Head Physician is free of the disease, and has many medicines and therapies for us. And of course, it is also the ark of salvation and the vehicle of the Apostolic Tradition, helping us to better walk with Christ.
     
  7. Nada

    Nada #

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    What people think of a church today is not what Jesus meant in the holy scriptures.Jesus was speaking of an assembly or congregation of true Christians.
    One true organization.Not a church building where people go to worship God.
     
  8. jtartar

    jtartar Well-Known Member

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    Saint Frankenstein,
    I have studied the Holy Scriptures for over 50 years, and I cannot seem to find any scriptures that even hint of a purgatory.
    Please give me some scriptures to read so that I can understand the whole precept of purgatory.
     
  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Ekklesia meaning assembly or called out ones.

    Is it physical? Or spiritual?

    God is a spirit John 4:24
    Jesus the image of God came in the flesh but did not form an ekklisia in the flesh. Now he is spirit in the image of The Father. He says "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest...." Matthew 11:28

    On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink." John 7:37

    All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. John 6:37

    ..... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age Matthew 28:20

    If I am with Jesus as these command and you are with Jesus too, then we are gathered together. It is possible to want Jesus but not me. Then you and I must take to heart this:
    not forsaking our assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another; and so much the more, as you see the Day approaching. Hebrews 10:25

    Draw close to God and he will draw close to you. James 4:8
     
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Someone might say it is also a physical gathering together. The reason why I don't think so are these:

    Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ

    Galatians 2:4
    This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

    1 Timothy 5:8
    Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    2 Timothy 2:12
    if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us

    2 Timothy 3:6
    They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires

    Titus 1:16
    They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

    1 Peter 2:8
    "A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

    2 Peter 2:1
    But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

    2 Peter 2:2
    Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

    Acts 15:24
    We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

    Galatians 1:7
    which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

    Galatians 5:10
    I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty.

    What will happen to You if you are standing next to a "brother" who will "have to pay the penalty"?

    Numbers 16:26
    He warned the assembly, "Move back from the tents of these wicked men! Do not touch anything belonging to them, or you will be swept away because of all their sins."
     
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The scriptures say there will definitely be bad people gathered to God's people. It also warns about associating with them so.....how is it God warns us about forsaking the physical gathering together?

    It is not bad to meet together physically sometimes in harmony with the will of God but the church makes it a prerequisite for a person's salvation and it has turned the command of Jesus to be gathered to him into a command to be gathered to each other. How does a person gather to each other and at the same time avoid bad men?
     
  12. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    REGARDING THE MEANING OF ΕΚΚΛΕΣΙΑ (eng. “Church”)

    For me, the word "church" / εκκλησια has taken on a deeper meaning as I consider a "Church" as a part of an eternal plan of a loving God. The word most often used for “church” in the New Testament Greek is εκκλησια. It is a compound word made up of the work used for a “calling”, an “invitation”, a “naming” (distinguishing one thing from another thing), καλεω and the Greek word for “out”, εκ.. It was used also for an assembly of people. (e.g. a town meeting)

    I believe that this word, in its’ most broadest religious contextual sense is that it represents those individuals who have accepted the invitation God extends to all individuals toward faith and moral/social progression. In the narrower Christian context I believe it represents those who have accepted the more narrow invitation God, at some point, extends to all individuals toward faith in Jesus Christ and in the adoption and mastering of moral and social laws Jesus wants us to live. I do not think one needs to have a perfectly correct understanding of any doctrine in order to be part of those who are in the process of assembling and learning what it is that Jesus expects of them and then learning to do what Jesus expects of them. Thus, I do not expect members of this group to be in agreement on all things (though that is an ultimate goal). The Εκκλησια, is, as I view it, a part of an eternal “process” of planting and gathering “good fruit” who respond to the invitation towards moral/social “improvement”. I think this may have been what Origen meant when he defined evil as “the refusal to progress.” This is simply a base model for me and I am very willing and wanting to modify it as I find better data.

    Historically, the concept of εκκλεσια as a reference to a process of “inviting” towards specific moral and social principles, was seen as a process that had ALWAYS existed in heaven before the creation of the earth. Thus the writer of 2nd Clement taught : Quote: “the books and the Apostles declare that the church not only exists now, but has been in existence from the Beginning. (2 cl 14:3).”

    The process of organizing and gathering towards certain principles has ALWAYS existec, but He says it was “revealed [restored] in the last days”, thus the one on the earth is only a copy of the original “spiritual” organization . This is why the early christians claimed that a form of christianity was the original religion. : quote: “Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but judaism in christianity” (Ign to Magnesians 10:3).

    Speaking in this same context and from a christian world view, Ignatius taught the Christians of his era : Quote: “We also love the prophets because they anticipated the gospel in their preaching and set their hope on him; because they also believed in him” (Ign to Phillipians 5:2).

    In Hermas’ vision he is speaking to an angel regarding the vision wherein the church was represented as “an elderly woman” (he is speaking to an angel who is explaining the vision). Quote: “Who do you think the elderly woman..was.... “The Church” he replied. I said to him “Why, then, is she elderly?” “Because,” he said, “she was created before all things; therefore she is elderly, and for her sake the world was formed.” (Her 8:1) That is, the world exists for the education of and organization of and then the gathering of individuals around certain principles. (the book of Hermas is in early 4th century Sinaiticus New Testaments).

    Thus, for me, the word "εκκλεσια" is not simply a "congregation" but also a process of "calling out" and gathering of individuals towards specific moral and social principles that are designed to prepare and enable them to ultimately live in a social heaven in joy and harmony for ever.

    Clear
    ειειακειω
     
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