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what is judaisms highest priority

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evane123

Active Member
i enjoy taking sayings and turning them into philosophies
hillel: deal with others the way you want to be dealt with
ben zoma
wise:I think i search for more information to try to make better decisions.
might: I think a person who continues to try to master because I think one who is wise and who has might is stronger than one who only has might.
"one who is slow to anger": I think i do not get anger because i deal with others the way i want to be dealt with and i do not want people to control me, so I do not get frustrated and angered when things do not go my way.


I did not enjoy rabban because I think truth at wrong times can cause problems. I think justice might not be just to all till truth comes through the lies to all. I think peace can be horrible, in my case the peace i have makes me want to die because of the suffering i live with.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
evane123 said:
I think (praise)favorable judgment to one over another will cause one to not have understanding about who is better. I think you should deal with everything the same to have a common variable. I think you might be able to think of reasons to have favorable judgment at times of trying to improve the universe and not a single person.

I think I can not pick out a priority other than Praise from that but maybe you think something else. I think i would enjoy your priority in your own words.
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Sorry, you will have to completely rephrase it. I am talking about middle eastern reality, I don't find what you said to touch that in any way.
 
Yona

Yona

Frum Mastah Flex
Caladan said:
Try again. you are not making much sense. talk straight instead of quoting irrelevant verses. what do YOU think? what do YOU have to say? really give me anything to work with.
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I just wanted to say, I love this conversation, lol, carry on. :D
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
evane123 said:
  1. To fear Him Deut. 10:20
I think you are supose to fear god because he could cause you pain, so that would be trying not to feel pain.
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It's worth noting that what Wikipedia dismisses as "somewhat mistranslated," is actually a dramatic and key difference that is vital in understanding what this concept means.

The word translated (wrongly) as "fear" in "Fear YHVH your God" is yir'ah. What the word yir'ah actually means is "awe." The phrase should be translated "You must be in awe of YHVH your God." Which is an enormous difference, and has profoundly affected how Jews think about God and our relationship to Him and His commandments.

We are, because of that meaning of yir'ah, taught that the motivation for relating to God and doing what He commands should not be fear that He will hurt you if you don't. It should be a legitimate desire to please God and do as He asks, for the simple reason that He is our Creator, our Maker, the Source of All Life, Infinite and Eternal, and therefore more worthy of respect, of praise, of loyalty, and of worship than anything else in existence.

According to classical Jewish philosophy, those who obey the commandments purely out of fear of God's retribution are operating at the lowest possible spiritual level. There are a number of levels of spiritual motivation above it, but the average norm that we are told to expect from ourselves is to do what God asks because we trust Him, and we wish to do what is right and just for its own sake, so we presume that what God asks of us is right and just, and do that. The ideal, that we are to strive for, is doing what God asks purely out of love and respect for God as our Creator and partner in Covenant.
 
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evane123

Active Member
Levite said:
It's worth noting that what Wikipedia dismisses as "somewhat mistranslated," is actually a dramatic and key difference that is vital in understanding what this concept means.

The word translated (wrongly) as "fear" in "Fear YHVH your God" is yir'ah. What the word yir'ah actually means is "awe." The phrase should be translated "You must be in awe of YHVH your God." Which is an enormous difference, and has profoundly affected how Jews think about God and our relationship to Him and His commandments.

We are, because of that meaning of yir'ah, taught that the motivation for relating to God and doing what He commands should not be fear that He will hurt you if you don't. It should be a legitimate desire to please God and do as He asks, for the simple reason that He is our Creator, our Maker, the Source of All Life, Infinite and Eternal, and therefore more worthy of respect, of praise, of loyalty, and of worship than anything else in existence.

According to classical Jewish philosophy, those who obey the commandments purely out of fear of God's retribution are operating at the lowest possible spiritual level. There are a number of levels of spiritual motivation above it, but the average norm that we are told to expect from ourselves is to do what God asks because we trust Him, and we wish to do what is right and just for its own sake, so we presume that what God asks of us is right and just, and do that. The ideal, that we are to strive for, is doing what God asks purely out of love and respect for God as our Creator and partner in Covenant.
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I disagree after reading (Amos 2:6,3:11) Thus says the lord: for three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment; because they sell the righteous for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals- Therefore an adversary shall surround the land, and strip you of your defense; and your strongholds shall be plundered.

I think god wanted there to be fear of god because the lord said that before doing that.
And you admit there is a level of spiritual motivation that includes fearing god. I think you have that in the wrong order.
I think calling my highest priority stupid does not make sense from a jewish persons perspective.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
evane123 said:
I disagree after reading (Amos 2:6,3:11) Thus says the lord: for three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment; because they sell the righteous for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals- Therefore an adversary shall surround the land, and strip you of your defense; and your strongholds shall be plundered.

I think god wanted there to be fear of god because the lord said that before doing that.
And you admit there is a level of spiritual motivation that includes fearing god. I think you have that in the wrong order.
I think calling my highest priority stupid does not make sense from a jewish persons perspective.
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I think what Amos is saying is not that Israel did not fear God, but rather that they had no fear of sin. Rather than doing what is right for its own sake, they embraced what was wrong, for their own selfish sakes. And lacking therefore a framework of social justice, the society became degraded, debauched, internally weakened by strife, and ripe for conquest-- which God did not stand in the way of, since the people were rejecting Him and His covenant.

I do not think it serves the purpose either of advancing spiritual awareness and connectivity, or of social justice and doing what is right and good, to fear God. Fear blinds one. It paralyzes. It creates chaos and panic. Fear must be focused away from the spirit, away from one's connection to God, and sublimated into productive uses: fear for the wellbeing of others, fear for evil to grow and good to wither, fear that one may not be able to better serve God and the people. These are uses of fear that drive us, that become part of our impulse to do mitzvot. But fearing God only drives us away from Him, for just as we fear what we do not understand, we refuse to understand that which we fear.

Those qualities by which God wishes us to know Him most clearly are those He tells Moshe in the thirty-fourth chapter of Exodus: YHVH YHVH El rachum ve-chanun erech apayim ve-rav chesed v'emet notzer chesed l'alafim nosei avon va'fesha ve-chata venakei. "Hashem, Hashem, a God full of compassion and grace, slow to become angry, great in lovingkindness and truth, giving forth lovingkindness to the thousandth remove, absolving sins of guilt, and sins of defiance, and sins of fault, to acquit." These are not the qualities of a God to be feared, but to hold in awe.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
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evane123

Active Member
Levite said:
I think what Amos is saying is not that Israel did not fear God, but rather that they had no fear of sin. Rather than doing what is right for its own sake, they embraced what was wrong, for their own selfish sakes. And lacking therefore a framework of social justice, the society became degraded, debauched, internally weakened by strife, and ripe for conquest-- which God did not stand in the way of, since the people were rejecting Him and His covenant.

I do not think it serves the purpose either of advancing spiritual awareness and connectivity, or of social justice and doing what is right and good, to fear God. Fear blinds one. It paralyzes. It creates chaos and panic. Fear must be focused away from the spirit, away from one's connection to God, and sublimated into productive uses: fear for the wellbeing of others, fear for evil to grow and good to wither, fear that one may not be able to better serve God and the people. These are uses of fear that drive us, that become part of our impulse to do mitzvot. But fearing God only drives us away from Him, for just as we fear what we do not understand, we refuse to understand that which we fear.

Those qualities by which God wishes us to know Him most clearly are those He tells Moshe in the thirty-fourth chapter of Exodus: YHVH YHVH El rachum ve-chanun erech apayim ve-rav chesed v'emet notzer chesed l'alafim nosei avon va'fesha ve-chata venakei. "Hashem, Hashem, a God full of compassion and grace, slow to become angry, great in lovingkindness and truth, giving forth lovingkindness to the thousandth remove, absolving sins of guilt, and sins of defiance, and sins of fault, to acquit." These are not the qualities of a God to be feared, but to hold in awe.
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I think everything should be feared and I think that makes me want to deal with all intelligent life the same.
Do you think people continue to not fear sin because i think though that does not fit me perfect i think that shows that people do the best they can and should not feel guilt if they do there best.
I think there is a difference between greed and selfishness. I think selfishness is good because i think people lie and using my own selfves mind protects me, i think i might find information that could better society if i search my life to try to find information, I think if i am part of a line of command to action i increase the chances of pain. I think i improve myself if i improve the universe because I think hope of not feeling pain is increased if i improve the universe, I think i fear loss of what i want if i do not improve the universe, I think that if i improve the universe the chances of rewards that will improve myself increases.
What do you think about my selfishness. Do you think god will punish me?(I have a defense against god) Do you think that my selfishness is greedy?
Do you think if there is a way to make social justice, upgrade society, not any way to fight inside the upgrade of society that the Jewish people would return to not fearing sin?

"Fear blinds one. It paralyzes. It creates chaos and panic."-you. I think you are not talking about fear i think you are talking about panic. I think i should change my word to worry to make it less panicky. I think panic is caused by a change in priority to trying not to feel pain and i think that some people are not ready to deal with that priority because they are using guidance that has comfort at a higher level of priority that trying not to feel pain. I think jails are made to try to change peoples priority from comfort to trying not to feel pain.

I think fearing god can be healthy because the fear makes me want to protect myself. I think since the fear of god, devil, man, etc. that I thought of a system at child birth that would put a child in a false reality and till they did not harm they would not get what they want. I think it could be used on god, devil, man, nazis, etc. I think i did not go into much detail.

I personally do not get anger ever because i think people do the best they can from the information they have and i do not try to control people because i want to deal with others the way i want to be dealt with, not controlled by others.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
evane123 said:
I think everything should be feared and I think that makes me want to deal with all intelligent life the same.
Do you think people continue to not fear sin because i think though that does not fit me perfect i think that shows that people do the best they can and should not feel guilt if they do there best.
I think there is a difference between greed and selfishness. I think selfishness is good because i think people lie and using my own selfves mind protects me, i think i might find information that could better society if i search my life to try to find information, I think if i am part of a line of command to action i increase the chances of pain. I think i improve myself if i improve the universe because I think hope of not feeling pain is increased if i improve the universe, I think i fear loss of what i want if i do not improve the universe, I think that if i improve the universe the chances of rewards that will improve myself increases.
What do you think about my selfishness. Do you think god will punish me?(I have a defense against god) Do you think that my selfishness is greedy?
Do you think if there is a way to make social justice, upgrade society, not any way to fight inside the upgrade of society that the Jewish people would return to not fearing sin?

"Fear blinds one. It paralyzes. It creates chaos and panic."-you. I think you are not talking about fear i think you are talking about panic. I think i should change my word to worry to make it less panicky. I think panic is caused by a change in priority to trying not to feel pain and i think that some people are not ready to deal with that priority because they are using guidance that has comfort at a higher level of priority that trying not to feel pain. I think jails are made to try to change peoples priority from comfort to trying not to feel pain.

I think fearing god can be healthy because the fear makes me want to protect myself. I think since the fear of god, devil, man, etc. that I thought of a system at child birth that would put a child in a false reality and till they did not harm they would not get what they want. I think it could be used on god, devil, man, nazis, etc. I think i did not go into much detail.

I personally do not get anger ever because i think people do the best they can from the information they have and i do not try to control people because i want to deal with others the way i want to be dealt with, not controlled by others.
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OK, I have to confess I am not sure what you just said here.
 
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evane123

Active Member
the second line is difficult to grasp. what i meant was do you think people continue to not fear sin. I do not sin because i do the best i can from the information i have and I do not feel guilt.

did you get the third line and the questions after?

eighth line. did you understand that?

eleventh line. I think this is very important to the jewish people because i think it is a defense i created to stop horrible people like the nazis. I think if you do not get the idea that you should ask more questions.

thirteenth line. I think you said that god gets anger so i explained why i never get anger.
 
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Philosopher8659

New Member
The question is anthropomorphic, and thus does not make sense at all.
What is stated in scripture, to achive the knowledge of good and evil. The text is written in such a manner to tests the readers judgmental abilities and thus appears ot be a psychological treatis.
Simply put, it seems that the goal of the author of the text is that mankind should reach a certain level psychological evolution--as that is the method used to "seal" the text.
 
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evane123

Active Member
Philosopher8659 said:
The question is anthropomorphic, and thus does not make sense at all.
What is stated in scripture, to achive the knowledge of good and evil. The text is written in such a manner to tests the readers judgmental abilities and thus appears ot be a psychological treatis.
Simply put, it seems that the goal of the author of the text is that mankind should reach a certain level psychological evolution--as that is the method used to "seal" the text.
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what question?
what author?
 
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