No... the question is "why" because those who do commit the unpardonable sin... were forgiven before they committed it.
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What is God responsible for?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Responsibility.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, but it is the best evidence.
Can you present those views? I am open to hearing them.
Yes, that is correct, because I believe that Baha'u'llah was infallible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How would that play out? How would the bodies be brought back?
Why would anyone want to live on Earth forever? I cannot wait to get out of this world to a better place. This world is a world of sorrows, and there is no way it can be transformed into a paradise, because it is a material world and that is what causes all the pain and suffering. In the spiritual world (heaven) we will know only joy and there will be no more death.
“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
While I decided to just directly test (so no need to guess about things like accuracy and such), it becomes eventually an interesting question!
But consider that timing! --- Mark being written down 66-70AD is only about 35 years after Jesus was on Earth.
Statistically, that means living eye witnesses still alive (as a certainty).
The young, like age 12-25 among the tens of thousands that would have heard him speak, back in their youth: some would still be alive when Mark was written down 35 years later, and of course they would have told their accounts (and more than just once or twice no doubt).
In other words, any writer(s) anywhere in the region would have living eye witness accounts to relay.
Nothing else would make mathematical sense. (the statistical odds of everyone dying before age 50 is just 0% -- a portion would live longer than age 50)
Of course the mere question of who did the physical writing is of little to no matter at all.
While among thousands, you'd certainly have some like these:
With basically accurate recall.
I think even that isn't required. If you have hundreds of witnesses say 20 years later, and they are sharing their stories -- the various accounts -- people hearing more than just 1 or 2 would notice what lines up and agrees in the accounts.
So, even without the perfect recall some people have, you'd still get an accurate composite, the things generally agreed to by many.
(But, some think even this clear strong likelihood of just accurate accounts isn't required. Another view is that God would subtly but effectively help (as He would for any true prophet). So, someone(s) with an accurate account would just happen to survive, or an accurate account be relayed through generations, and so on -- it would be aided. The right person would just happen to show up and help. In other words, God as involved in helping us in subtle but needed ways.)
But none of that mattered to me. I just tested, for myself.
Last edited:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As a Baha'i, that is what I believe, that the composite is accurate:
The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet....
The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
(From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice)
The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
(From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice)
How did you do that?
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Adam and Eve were only offered to live on Earth forever, and that would have proved true for their descendants.
Eden was Not a world of sorrows, Eden was already a paradisical garden. Earth was Not a stepping stone to any other place.
Mankind was to enlarge the borders of Eden to the point that edenic beauty would cover the whole Earth.
Since there was No sickness, No death in Eden then that same healthy condition would also be spread world wide.
Remember: In Scripture angels were created first. Angels were to remain angels and humans were to remain humans.
The angels in Heaven are Not former humans.
Yes, there is No death in Heaven and we are asked to pray that joyful heavenly conditions come to exist here on Earth as they do in Heaven.....
The only people called to Heaven are people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 2:10.
The majority of mankind are offered Earth as Adam was offered Earth.
This is why Jesus said meek or mild humble people will inherit ( Not Heaven ) but inherit the Earth.- Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5
Not an Earth filled with sorrows but inherit an Earth minus wicked people. Jesus will do away with the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-16
ALL the healings, ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were earthly physical resurrections.
Revelation 21:4-5 informs us that God will be with man ( mankind ) and 'death will be No more'.
After the end of Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth, over mankind, according to 1 Corinthians 15:26 'enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - Isaiah 25:8
Mahmoud Ali
New Member
Lessons from the Guidance of The Holy Quran, From the Series of Knowing Allah –– Belssings of Allah – 2nd Lesson
Lectured By Mr. Hussein BadrEldein Al-houthi
On 19th JAN 2002, Sa’ada – Yemen
In the name of Allah the Most Merciful.
Praises to Almighty Allah, and peace and blessings of Allah be upon our master Muhammad and his good and pure family.
The topic is still about the noble verse: {And that who entrusts ALLAH (God) and His Messenger, and those who have believed, then those (The party of Allah) are the victorious.”(Al-Ma`idah: 56)
And we said: It is very important to know who the soldiers (Entrustees) of Allah are, and to know how to be a soldier. The certain thing to know, is that knowing Allah a sufficient and a wide knowledge, is necessary in order for a person to be among the Soldiers of Allah. Because one of the most prominent characteristics of the soldiers of Allah Almighty is that they have great Trust in Allah, and their trust in Allah is very strong.
Such a Strong trust in Allah is only achieved through knowing Allah a very well knowledge, and we do not mean by his knowledge (glory be to Him the Almighty) what is reconciled to him in the books of theology, but the extensive knowledge of the Almighty through the Noble Qur’an, a knowledge of his perfection, a knowledge of the blessings bestowed upon his servants, a knowledge of the manifestations of his power and evidence of his wisdom, and the manifestations of his mercy. Also knowing the severity of his punishment, knowing what he prepared for his soldiers (Entrusted), and what he prepared for his enemies, knowing the special care which his guardians (Soldiers) will receive from him, and knowing that he is the predominant, this is the extensive knowledge.
Yesterday the topic was about the divinity of Almighty Allah, is to know his divinity, glory be to Him, what does it mean for us, And that is to know that there is no god but Allah, and as the Almighty said to His Messenger Muhammad (may Allah blessings be upon him and his family): {So know that there is no god but Allah, and you shall ask for forgiveness of your mistake and that of the believers} (Muhammad: from verse 19) and whenever we have (by Allah's permission, success and enlightenment) a sufficient knowledge of the meaning of “there is no god but Allah”, sufficient knowledge of the meaning of his divinity, that he is our god and we are his servants, then this is considered as one of the most important benefits and the greatest gains that if a person spends his life Long to establish its meanings in himself then it would be of the greatest blessings he gets throughout his life.
Allah Almighty is our God and we are His servants, and this means that He alone has the right to have the command in us, and the judgment in us, He who has the right to legislate for us, direct us and guide us, He is the only one who has the right to rule over us, He who has the right to manage our affairs ; Because we are his servants, he is the one who has the right not for someone else to interfere in our affairs in a way that contradicts with what he - glory be to Him - wants for us and from us. He is the only one who has the right for us to obey, and we obey whoever obeyed Him from His obedience.
This important rule and wide rule is that which separates you from every god on earth, whether represented in your desires, or represented in a person, or represented in anything of this world. So when you separate yourself from everything to become your God except Allah, then you achieve the meaning of (There is no god but Allah), and then you will be granted from the sources his pride, from the strength of his unity, from the wisdom of his unity, from the knowledge of his unity, as Allah Almighty said in Yusef (Joseph) the profit of Allah and in the Prophet of Allah, Moses: {And when he has reached his strength, we gave to him wisdom and knowledge. And that is how I reward The good-doers} (Yusef: 22)
Lectured By Mr. Hussein BadrEldein Al-houthi
On 19th JAN 2002, Sa’ada – Yemen
In the name of Allah the Most Merciful.
Praises to Almighty Allah, and peace and blessings of Allah be upon our master Muhammad and his good and pure family.
The topic is still about the noble verse: {And that who entrusts ALLAH (God) and His Messenger, and those who have believed, then those (The party of Allah) are the victorious.”(Al-Ma`idah: 56)
And we said: It is very important to know who the soldiers (Entrustees) of Allah are, and to know how to be a soldier. The certain thing to know, is that knowing Allah a sufficient and a wide knowledge, is necessary in order for a person to be among the Soldiers of Allah. Because one of the most prominent characteristics of the soldiers of Allah Almighty is that they have great Trust in Allah, and their trust in Allah is very strong.
Such a Strong trust in Allah is only achieved through knowing Allah a very well knowledge, and we do not mean by his knowledge (glory be to Him the Almighty) what is reconciled to him in the books of theology, but the extensive knowledge of the Almighty through the Noble Qur’an, a knowledge of his perfection, a knowledge of the blessings bestowed upon his servants, a knowledge of the manifestations of his power and evidence of his wisdom, and the manifestations of his mercy. Also knowing the severity of his punishment, knowing what he prepared for his soldiers (Entrusted), and what he prepared for his enemies, knowing the special care which his guardians (Soldiers) will receive from him, and knowing that he is the predominant, this is the extensive knowledge.
Yesterday the topic was about the divinity of Almighty Allah, is to know his divinity, glory be to Him, what does it mean for us, And that is to know that there is no god but Allah, and as the Almighty said to His Messenger Muhammad (may Allah blessings be upon him and his family): {So know that there is no god but Allah, and you shall ask for forgiveness of your mistake and that of the believers} (Muhammad: from verse 19) and whenever we have (by Allah's permission, success and enlightenment) a sufficient knowledge of the meaning of “there is no god but Allah”, sufficient knowledge of the meaning of his divinity, that he is our god and we are his servants, then this is considered as one of the most important benefits and the greatest gains that if a person spends his life Long to establish its meanings in himself then it would be of the greatest blessings he gets throughout his life.
Allah Almighty is our God and we are His servants, and this means that He alone has the right to have the command in us, and the judgment in us, He who has the right to legislate for us, direct us and guide us, He is the only one who has the right to rule over us, He who has the right to manage our affairs ; Because we are his servants, he is the one who has the right not for someone else to interfere in our affairs in a way that contradicts with what he - glory be to Him - wants for us and from us. He is the only one who has the right for us to obey, and we obey whoever obeyed Him from His obedience.
This important rule and wide rule is that which separates you from every god on earth, whether represented in your desires, or represented in a person, or represented in anything of this world. So when you separate yourself from everything to become your God except Allah, then you achieve the meaning of (There is no god but Allah), and then you will be granted from the sources his pride, from the strength of his unity, from the wisdom of his unity, from the knowledge of his unity, as Allah Almighty said in Yusef (Joseph) the profit of Allah and in the Prophet of Allah, Moses: {And when he has reached his strength, we gave to him wisdom and knowledge. And that is how I reward The good-doers} (Yusef: 22)
I think rebirth is one possibility among many. But I think it's cruel to blame people for a misfortune or abuse that occurred to them, especially in a possible past life they would not even remember. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that whatever hardship or wrong occurred or is occuring is a problem or wrong in of itself and we should help that person, should they need it. And we can hope some ultimate good comes of it.
How could a free-willed person be forgiven before they commit a sin.
Un-repentant wicked people are Not forgiven - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35
Remember: Jesus' ransom covers MANY according to Matthew 20:28
Jesus died for all, but all will Not end up following Jesus, and that is why verse 28 says MANY people and does Not say ALL.
One could look at it this way.
Suppose someone did something wrong to you... maybe robbed your wallet. You then faced him and said "I forgive you" and his response was un-repentant "I really don't care if you forgiven me. Does that mean you didn't forgive him? Or he didn't receive his forgiveness.
Psalms 103:12 says: As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
and at the Cross:
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
So sin has been dealt with.
It is true that many people won't follow Jesus... but that didn't mean that Jesus didn't forgive them... they just rejected the gift offered to them.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
For those that really do believe in Christ Jesus, they will want to listen to Him, such as all He says in Matthew chapter 7 for a very important set of answers. His Words are true. More true than any reduction of course, more true than some doctrines. True. Far better than the many conflicting doctrines people have come up with to try to avoid just listening to Him.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Dear Trailblazer
God is responsible for the Code/Word; the rest is Ego.
The consequences of not loving God are not felt in the afterlife; they are felt here - everyday.
Humbly
Hermit
There isn't a point I can disagree here with! Very true!
Yes, sin has been dealt with but that does Not mean the wicked are forgiven. Psalm 103:12 does Not include the unrepentant wicked.
It is when a person repents and seeks forgiveness that transgression is removed,
It is either ' repent ' or ' perish' ( perish meaning be destroyed ) according to 2 Peter 3:9
Jesus was telling the truth at Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10 about there being an unforgivable sin.
Any comments about Hebrews 10:26 ___________________________
Yes, I believe God created the original people, whose offspring we are.
So when a person has a desire to reject God, the ultimate source of that desire is God himself... right?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, I know that only too well, but I think they will also be felt in the afterlife since that is simply a continuation of this life. The difference is that we won't have the free will to change our mind about God after we die so it is best that we get right with God in this world.