What is a soul/spirit?

[look3467]

What is a soul/spirit?

Answer #1: Consciousness

Evidence: The soul is supposed to be eternal. Well, what has been there the longest, that hasnt changed, and that has always been there sense your birth. Your consciousness. Now, I cant prove to you that Consciousness was there before Birth. But, your mind has changed, so has your body, but your consciousness has remained the same. Even in sleep. The very fact that you know you where unconscious in sleep proves that consciousness was there. When you say I cant see, that proves that seeing is present. Therefore, in all aspects of your life, consciousness has been there, unchanging. Any aparent change in consciousness occurs because of your consciousnesses connection with the body and allowing external things to affect it.

The Spirit of the creator always was/is/shall be!

But we, as individuals, separate spirit entities from the Creators spirit, are a new spirit being, created after the flesh, as born in the flesh.

Therefore, our spirits have not always been, until birth in the flesh come first.

Ref: Jesus said: Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

What that verse implies is that the spirit in us is not yet born in order to enter into heaven.

Of water? Yes, for are we not in the flesh after our mothers womb, immersed in the water?

So we are born of water first, then we need, must be born of the spirit.

Now is the time to understand that procedure, that action that does make us sons of God, via His everlasting Spirit.

The procedure, the action simply is in the rebirth of our dead spirits.

Don't we all know that we all have been concluded under sin and lost, meaning dead spiritually, and in need of a rebirth?

There is no other way!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Beta]

Look3467 , when man was created he was given the 'breath of life' which is the same life-force that animals have (movement of air in our lungs). When that air-supply is cut off we die the same as animals Eccl.3v18,19.
The HS was available to Adam in the tree of LIFE , eternal life from God had he been obedient.
Man was not given God's Holy Spirit as you seem to suggest. The HS is given us upon obedience during our human lifetime Acts 5v32.
The 'breath of life' does no more than give man human / physical life and the ability to get to know God, but we can / will die unless God ADDS His HS.

 

[Etritonakin]

Is a soul or spirit something that can be scientifically measured or is it just speculation? And for that matter, what exactly is it? I am told that it is an energy inside all living things that provides us with emotion and morals..

The data stored in your computer are simply electrons in a certain order. Electrons exist whether the computer is functional or not -and even exist in a certain order on the hard drive even if the computer is not functional. The hard drive may then be placed in another computer.

Likewise, "you" can exist even if your body dies.
"You" -that is -your "spirit" -may then be placed in another body.

Science and science-fiction have considered such possibilities...

Yet it was declared from the beginning...

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Beta]

The data stored in your computer are simply electrons in a certain order. Electrons exist whether the computer is functional or not -and even exist in a certain order on the hard drive even if the computer is not functional. The hard drive may then be placed in another computer.

Likewise, "you" can exist even if your body dies.
"You" -that is -your "spirit" -may then be placed in another body.

Science and science-fiction have considered such possibilities...

Yet it was declared from the beginning...

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Good analogy friend !
The human spirit is much like a disc or hard drive (spiritual of course) that returns to God when we die and is then later used to re-create us (or be born again) in a Resurrection Rom.1v4 ,either into a human body once more or into a spirit- body (as have God and Jesus).

 

[look3467]

Look3467 ,(1) when man was created he was given the 'breath of life' which is the same life-force that animals have (movement of air in our lungs). When that air-supply is cut off we die the same as animals Eccl.3v18,19.
The HS was available to Adam in the tree of LIFE , eternal life from God had he been obedient.
(2)Man was not given God's Holy Spirit as you seem to suggest. The HS is given us upon obedience during our human lifetime Acts 5v32.
(3)The 'breath of life' does no more than give man human / physical life and the ability to get to know God, but we can / will die unless God ADDS His HS.

Point one above (1). You are correct! That is because the bible states: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

That is the difference between the animal kingdom and us.

And because of that we die both physically and spiritually, because we become "as gods".

Point (2). My statement was the same as yours in that mankind requires a rebirth.

And point (3). You make a very important point at the last of your sentence quote"
"unless God ADDS His HS, because the tree of life is what was withheld from mankind until God saw it appropriate to reintroduce it in the form of Jesus.

Jesus then is the tree of life obedient to the will of God in the place of all humanity.

For that is the only way mankind can be saved, and that is God's responsibility, and dully accomplished.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Beta]

Point one above (1). You are correct! That is because the bible states: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

That is the difference between the animal kingdom and us.

And because of that we die both physically and spiritually, because we become "as gods".

Point (2). My statement was the same as yours in that mankind requires a rebirth.

And point (3). You make a very important point at the last of your sentence quote"
"unless God ADDS His HS, because the tree of life is what was withheld from mankind until God saw it appropriate to reintroduce it in the form of Jesus.

Jesus then is the tree of life obedient to the will of God in the place of all humanity.

For that is the only way mankind can be saved, and that is God's responsibility, and dully accomplished.

Blessings, AJ

Hi there , It seems to me we still have one or two things to iron out.
In my view to know good and evil (as told by satan Gen.3v5) is not nearly sufficient to be like God,there is much more to it as GOD tells us in Gen.3v22. It would take the addition of the tree of Life (HS) to make man like God. But satan cleverly left that part out and thus deceived mankind.
But yes it does make a difference between man and beast who can not know God.
As far as I know spirit can not die not even the human spirit which is so much inferior than God's HS which Adam never got. Because spirit can not die the human spirit goes back to God when man dies.The human spirit does not give eternal life and only serves as a record (disc, hard drive) of a person's whole being so we can be resurrected through it. It stores our personal identity. We still need God's HS for immortality.
Yes man must be fully re-born (born again) in a resurrection from the dead Rom.1v4.
Certainly Jesus is our Saviour and Redeemer but not sure if we should see him as the tree of life. I think there is a scripture that says only GOD has Life to give and really Jesus came to bring us back to GOD who is greater than Jesus because he is the Almighty Creator of all things. That is how I understand it friend

 

[look3467]

In my view to know good and evil (as told by satan Gen.3v5) is not nearly sufficient to be like God,there is much more to it as GOD tells us in Gen.3v22. It would take the addition of the tree of Life (HS) to make man like God.

Let me ask you a few questions: If I had deceived someone, you suppose I would be held accountable?
You think that the Serpent should be held accountable?

If the answer to both is yes, then the deceived are held guiltless right?

With that in mind read the following verse: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

That verse opens up the understanding that Adam and Eve had no choice in the matter, and that the tree of knowledge is simply the ability given Adam and Eve to make choices between two extremes.

God purposely set that tree in the Garden, or in other words, the tree was given in a creative design, making of Adam and Eve like as gods, lower case g, but not sons of God.

God could not create a vessel with free will without giving the vessel the ability to reason.

An animal can not reason or make a choice between what is good or evil, so an animal cannot be like as gods, as we are, therefore is not subject to the vanity that mankind is.

But as the next verse indicates, it is the responsible one who makes reparation for the creative design fault.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Who does the delivering here? Is it not God, the one responsible?

If that were not so, why then would Jesus have to suffer? Do you suppose that God had to subject His Son to the same vanity in order for Him to redeem our lost souls?
Read: Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

The tree is a symbol both of knowledge of good and evil and.... of life.

Therefore, if the tree of good and evil caused our demise, then by the same token, the tree of life is our blessing.

But the tree of knowledge is a curse as the law defines our lost state.
It is stated: Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Is not the law a curse? Who of us could fulfill the whole law? Therefore cursed we are.

The Serpent is cursed making him accountable, and was hung on the tree.

You recall reading: Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a poleLike a tree maybe?) and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Let me add another verse: Exo 7:9 When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.

Is it not interesting that the rod became a serpent, seeing that it is a miracle of God?

And did the (Rod of Moses)Serpent of God not consume (Swallowed up) the other two serpents rods?

Well, the word consume is a positive word in that God is an all consuming fire!

Adding still another verse: Isa 5:26 And he will lift up an ensign (A standard)to the nations from far, and will hiss (what kind of noise does a serpent make?)unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:

What is the standard seen around the world? Cross?

Zec 10:8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.

But many will: Lam 2:15 All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth?

Is that not the same as ridiculing Jesus on the tree?:

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Mar 15:30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.

Mar 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

After all that, now we have access to the tree of Life via the Son of the living God to become sons of God by birth.

There....you see....that is the beginning of life, not the former, for the former brought death.

Hope I didn't over explain it.

Note: the rest of your post is correct by my view.

Blessings, AJ

 

[logician]

Is a soul or spirit something that can be scientifically measured or is it just speculation? And for that matter, what exactly is it? I am told that it is an energy inside all living things that provides us with emotion and morals..

"Ghosthunters" thinks its something that can be measured, like your weight or height,

I go with the idea that is it mere hopeful speculation.

 

[Etritonakin]

Let me ask you a few questions: If I had deceived someone, you suppose I would be held accountable?
You think that the Serpent should be held accountable?

If the answer to both is yes, then the deceived are held guiltless right?

With that in mind read the following verse: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

That verse opens up the understanding that Adam and Eve had no choice in the matter, and that the tree of knowledge is simply the ability given Adam and Eve to make choices between two extremes.

God purposely set that tree in the Garden,

"In my view to know good and evil (as told by satan Gen.3v5) is not nearly sufficient to be like God,there is much more to it as GOD tells us in Gen.3v22. It would take the addition of the tree of Life (HS) to make man like God. "

In Eden, man knew only good. God knew both good and evil -which is to say that he knew what would sustain the creation -and what would destroy it. However, God does not DO that which will destroy the creation. Even his destructive acts are to sustain it.

God gave Adam and Eve some simple instructions -and they did have a choice. They were told not to eat of a certain tree. They chose wrongly. They were deceived -but they were not guiltless. They were new creatures, and did not know that God was telling the truth. They were deceived as to God's nature. God holds them responsible for their choice -not for being deceived as to his nature.

God did allow this, but things could have gone differently. Someone would eventually have sinned, but Adam and Eve did not have to do so. God probably knew they would, but he did not make them sin. Being new, they believed Satan rather than God. Satan convinced them of what he had convinced himself long ago -that there was something to gain by disobeying God.

Satan had disobeyed God long before -but two thirds of the angels did not disobey. (Satan corrupted the angels for which he was responsible, and attempted to take God's throne.)

Lucifer did not have to sin -but God knew sin would eventually happen.

In creating new creative beings -with no experience -God created the potential that creativity (at the heart of which is the ability to make choices) could be turned against obedience due to ignorance of God's nature and character.

So -these creative beings needed to learn about God through experience -either by obedience or disobedience -and he allowed it so that the potential for disobedience might one day not exist. There is nothing we can destroy that he cannot renew (except, perhaps, ourselves by choice) -and once the lesson is learned, we can exist for eternity without the potential for sin.

Which is why it is written.....
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Lucifer did not have to sin -but God knew sin would eventually happen.

Just because God gave all in heaven and earth 'free will' does not mean sin would eventually happen.

Although Eve sinned, Adam did not have to sin along with her.
We would not have the problem of human imperfection of mind and body if Adam had not committed a sin/ crime.

If both Adam and Eve remained faithful, or if only one fell away, we would still have the original healthy human perfection of mind and body as Adam was originally created. If sometime in human history as a perfect human, beside the first two people on earth, would have deliberately sinned they would have died, but since others would show themselves faithful there would be no need for them to loose their perfection. Only the sinner would have died not the rest of us.

 

[Etritonakin]

Just because God gave all in heaven and earth 'free will' does not mean sin would eventually happen.

Although Eve sinned, Adam did not have to sin along with her.
We would not have the problem of human imperfection of mind and body if Adam had not committed a sin/ crime.

If both Adam and Eve remained faithful, or if only one fell away, we would still have the original healthy human perfection of mind and body as Adam was originally created. If sometime in human history as a perfect human, beside the first two people on earth, would have deliberately sinned they would have died, but since others would show themselves faithful there would be no need for them to loose their perfection. Only the sinner would have died not the rest of us.

I definitely believe God knew sin would eventually happen -just as parents are certain their children will not be perfectly obedient. Given the ignorance/newness of created beings, coupled with creativity, it was at least extremely probable. Though Adam and Eve had a choice, I do believe God knew how they would choose -somewhat similar to Christ knowing Peter would deny him three times, etc...

Quite true -If Adam and Eve had not sinned, we would still have opportunity to make mistakes ourselves -and so be subject to the death penalty ("the soul that sinneth, it shall die") -and would be cut off from the tree of life -whereas Adam and Eve would not have been.

However, as wonderful as their state was in Eden, they were still only human -they did not have God's spirit IN them.
Scripture says the carnal mind is enmity with God -inherently opposed to God -not able to please God -and that it is impossible for it to be subject to the law of God. (Rom. 8:7)
Given this, I do think God knew sin would eventually happen.
One might wonder why he did not simply put his holy spirit in them then, but they were not prepared for such a responsibility -they were still quite ignorant of all things. It is a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind (2 Titus 1:7) -but one must be prepared to receive it. All that transpired from Eden until Pentecost 31 A.D. (Acts 2) (some say 30 A.D.) was an experience base to prepare mankind for the widespread giving -pouring out -of God's spirit (though the holy spirit was definitely with some few in the old testament, etc..).

This may be a technicality, but God did not give us free will as some might define it. He gave us a choice between life and death. He certainly wants us to choose life -choose to obey him, but our ability to choose not to obey is a by-product of the power of creativity we were given. God purposed to reproduce himself -to literally make more gods...
(Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;..................
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.).
...so he created us with creativity -as creating things is the business of gods. This creativity coupled with ignorance of who God is created the potential for disobedience. God gave instructions, but the new had yet to prove God was the sort of being he declared himself to be....

....and so God gave the creation over to futility in hope. He purposed that we experience doing things contrary to him -or the effects of others doing so, so that he might eventually be proven to us.

To eventually remove all potential for sin, we have to prove that sin indeed causes destruction, and that God is telling the truth about himself.

Eve initially did not know God well enough to not be deceived about him.

 

[Beta]

Etritonakin . I do so agree with you !
Mankind NEEDED experience of good and evil in order to make a valid, fair choice. ALL good as A&E had in Eden was only half the story of life or indeed Creation. Our first parents were PHYSICALLY perfect but not mentally/spiritually. They lacked knowledge and experience.
Could God have given them both in their lifetime ? Yes , for they were desined to live 1000 years and the tree of Life (eternal) was available. So God had made provision even though he knew they would disobey. They lacked the mental ability to do right because man (who was to become as God) HAD TO start learning from the bottom up thus make him (man) knowledgable, experienced, caring, compassionate, patient, fair and just when he reached his full potential of being God-like. To become a good Ruler one first has to learn TO BE ruled - but so far MAN has not grasped that concept and persists in his disobedience to God who keeps warning us to hear his voice and obey - even sending us an example in his Son Heb.5v8,9.
MAN has much to learn yet ! :yes: if he will listen !

 

[look3467]

Although Eve sinned, Adam did not have to sin along with her.

Your missing the whole point!

Adam represents the spirit breath of God, and Eve represents the fleshly part of the living soul.

Together, or of twain, becomes one, the living soul is both Adam and Eve.

Look: Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Notice the word "their"?

One cannot be without the other, which means that both were made with free will, which is what made them as gods, to know good and evil.

That is what happened in the creative process which I understand to be a designed fault, of which God the Potter corrected in Jesus.

Very simple.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Beta]

Except you are saying God deliberately created a faulty Human.
That as good as says God WANTED to deceive mankind . Adam had none of God's Spirit in him , does not scripture say the first man Adam was made a living soul from the dust of the ground 1Cor.15v45, Gen.2v7, 'the last Adam (Jesus) was made a 'quickening Spirit.
Definitely a distinct difference !

 

[Etritonakin]

Etritonakin . I do so agree with you !
Mankind NEEDED experience of good and evil in order to make a valid, fair choice. ALL good as A&E had in Eden was only half the story of life or indeed Creation. Our first parents were PHYSICALLY perfect but not mentally/spiritually. They lacked knowledge and experience.
Could God have given them both in their lifetime ? Yes , for they were desined to live 1000 years and the tree of Life (eternal) was available. So God had made provision even though he knew they would disobey. They lacked the mental ability to do right because man (who was to become as God) HAD TO start learning from the bottom up thus make him (man) knowledgable, experienced, caring, compassionate, patient, fair and just when he reached his full potential of being God-like. To become a good Ruler one first has to learn TO BE ruled - but so far MAN has not grasped that concept and persists in his disobedience to God who keeps warning us to hear his voice and obey - even sending us an example in his Son Heb.5v8,9.
MAN has much to learn yet ! :yes: if he will listen !

Why do you say they were destined to only live 1,000 years?

 

[Beta]

Why do you say they were destined to only live 1,000 years?

ONE DAY if they sinned. Adam lived to 930 years = a thousand years for a day principle. I could have expressed it better , sorry.

 

[look3467]

Except you are saying God deliberately created a faulty Human.
That as good as says God WANTED to deceive mankind . Adam had none of God's Spirit in him , does not scripture say the first man Adam was made a living soul from the dust of the ground 1Cor.15v45, Gen.2v7, 'the last Adam (Jesus) was made a 'quickening Spirit.
Definitely a distinct difference !

You decide: Ref:Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

If it were easy to find God, I mean understand God, we won't have so many different variations of who God is.

God does make it to where if we sincerely seek Him, He will give us revelation.

Recall these verses: Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

..."and open the door"... is an action on our part indicating our seeking, finding and then suping with the Lord.

The first Adam was made a living soul, but not for life, while the second Adam was made a living soul with life.

There is a third Adam, if you would like to refer to him/her that way, and that is you and I, born again of the spirit of life, yet as a living soul in the flesh.

Read: Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Blessings, AJ

 

[Beaudreaux]

Is a soul or spirit something that can be scientifically measured or is it just speculation? And for that matter, what exactly is it? I am told that it is an energy inside all living things that provides us with emotion and morals..

What reason do you have for suggesting such a soul exists?

 

[Etritonakin]

ONE DAY if they sinned. Adam lived to 930 years = a thousand years for a day principle. I could have expressed it better , sorry.

Oh -if they DID sin -OK. People definitely lived longer before God limited man's years to 120 (though there are some claims of people living like a year more)

 

[Beta]

Oh -if they DID sin -OK. People definitely lived longer before God limited man's years to 120 (though there are some claims of people living like a year more)

I am not sure we can hold God to the exact year or day of an allotted time when it comes to human life. It would seem there is 'overlap' either way. For one thing we don't even know the year Jesus was born nor the exact day of his return.
And now man is given a period of 3 score years and 10 but how many live well over , myself included . :run: