What if the religious right really did hate Gays and Lesbians?

[lilithu]

Why you think that "groups that are in power" which is the only way you described people with opposing views to your own don't go through traumatic experiences? The scenario that you have presented would make anyone wonder if the whole world was against them.
Marginal differences would probably be left aside.

Hello?!! :bonk: Where you do get that by "groups that are in power" I only mean people with whom I disagree??!

I'm not talking about "marginal differences" ie - small differences; I'm talking about the differences in experience between marginalized groups (ie - BGLT, people of color, women, religious minorities) relative to the groups that hold privilege (ie - straights, whites, men, Christian, etc.) Depending on the context of the issue being discussed any person can be either a person of privilege or a marginalized person.

For example, I'm straight. When it comes to sexual orientation, I am a member of the privileged group. I'm a person of color. When it comes to race, I am a member of a marginalized group. See, I can be both at the same time, get it?

Why you think that "groups that are in power" don't go through traumatic experiences?

Jeez louise... I'm sure that everyone has had what they consider to be "traumatic" experiences, but NOT everyone has them based on the issue I'm discussing. Straight people do not have traumatic experiences about being discriminated against based on their sexual orientation.

The scenario that you have presented would make anyone wonder if the whole world was against them.

The "scenario" I presented was relating real life experiences that BGLT face in the hopes that people who are not BGLT can start to understand. The little things you take for granted are denied to others. I was trying to explain why someone would be angry.

 

[Flappycat]

Gee, if that statement isn't full of hatred and spite then I don't know what is.

It clearly demonstrates the principle, though. The gay community in this country has decided that they're no longer going to be messed with or made the underdog. They're not going to be satisfied with table scraps anymore. It just really got old. Push came to shove at some point.

 

[Jaymes]

The last time I checked I didn't have the power to make legislative decisions other than what we all have, so my opinion does not end there.

Sorry, I was a little unclear with the post you quoted. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think people have the right to make or support legislation that specifically discriminates against GLBTQ people.

 

[love]

I will no more give up my right to my thoughts than you, and I think there are alot more things to worry about than someones sexual orientation. Hate grimes against gays are becoming less numeruos everday. Can you think of another reason someone hates you? I know that people hate me because I am a white middle aged male who happens to be Christian.

 

[Flappycat]

I will no more give up my right to my thoughts than you, and I think there are alot more things to worry about than someones sexual orientation. Hate grimes against gays are becoming less numeruos everday. Can you think of another reason someone hates you? I know that people hate me because I am a white middle aged male who happens to be Christian.

I can't think of a single person who has ever hated me for being gay, actually. I'm just offended as a matter of principle by the expectation that I be impressed with table scraps like "civil unions" Same nutritional value, true, but they're still cold and unappetizing.

 

[Jaymes]

I will no more give up my right to my thoughts than you, and I think there are alot more things to worry about than someones sexual orientation. Hate grimes against gays are becoming less numeruos everday. Can you think of another reason someone hates you? I know that people hate me because I am a white middle aged male who happens to be Christian.

You have the right to think everything you want to think, but you don't have the right to push those ideals on me.

While I'm very glad that hate crimes against GLBT people are becoming less numerous, they're certainly not nonexistant. Over 1000 people were attacked for being GBLT or percieved as GLBT in 2005 (we still haven't got numbers for 2006).

 

[Mike182]

You have the right to think everything you want to think, but you don't have the right to push those ideals on me.

While I'm very glad that hate crimes against GLBT people are becoming less numerous, they're certainly not nonexistant. Over 1000 people were attacked for being GBLT or percieved as GLBT in 2005 (we still haven't got numbers for 2006).

and while i don't have them to hand;

1) suicide amongst LGBT youth is higher than straight youth
2) there is a massive LGBT percentage of homeless people in comparison to the LGBT percentage of the general population

these are serious affects of anti-gay oppinions having been pushed through various mediums. yes, the situation is getting better, and i am thankful for that, but i personally was abused and violated in many ways for being a gay youth, and i'm only 19! the problems that anti-gay ideas create still exists on a serious scale in our society today.

i would never say that someone who does not support gay marriage rights is an active supporter of gays being homeless on the streets or killing themselves, but i would ask if they are aware that these things are caused by that very frame of mind.

 

[Jaymes]

To clarify: That 1000 was just in the United States. I'm not sure what the statistics are like for other countries.

 

[Flappycat]

Well, the proportion of LGBT homeless may be primarily due to irresponsible parents who think they are Christians. I think lgbt youth make up a fairly large percentage of their age group who are without a home. The last figures that I saw were along the lines of 20%, which is really a huge proportion. Take into account the repercussions of what your politicians say and do. If they are fomenting paranoia for the sake of votes, you may be voting for someone who doesn't mind climbing to power on the broken dreams and wasted lives of innocents. To support this person would make you just as much of a pig and scoundrel, a despicable pervert who would ruin another person's life for a tax cut.

 

[lilithu]

I will no more give up my right to my thoughts than you, and I think there are alot more things to worry about than someones sexual orientation. Hate grimes against gays are becoming less numeruos everday. Can you think of another reason someone hates you? I know that people hate me because I am a white middle aged male who happens to be Christian.

You think people hate you because you're a white Christian male??

Ack!! We're talking about BGLT who are denied the right to marry, who are publicly called "immoral" by military generals, who are too often ostracized by their own families, who are beat up or killed because of their orientation, who's funerals get protested by religious nuts who gleefully keep count of how many days the deceased have been "burning in hell." And you're complaining about people "hating" you because... what? because someone spoke harshly to you?

To quote Charlie Brown, GOOD GRIEF!

 

[Mike182]

I will no more give up my right to my thoughts than you, and I think there are alot more things to worry about than someones sexual orientation. Hate grimes against gays are becoming less numeruos everday. Can you think of another reason someone hates you? I know that people hate me because I am a white middle aged male who happens to be Christian.

without wanting to downplay any hate you may have been the victim of in your life, have you ever been thrown into a trash can by a group of people who think you are the scum of the earth because you are either white of christian?

 

[Flappycat]

without wanting to downplay any hate you may have been the victim of in your life, have you ever been thrown into a trash can by a group of people who think you are the scum of the earth because you are either white of christian?

Well, some black guys once attempted to throw a wastebasket over my head back in high school. They missed, of course, because they were ignorant, regardless of where they came from. However, I think that this might have been predominantly due to my perceived sexual orientation. We had a lot of Jamaican immigrants in the area, and there is a lot of unabashed spite among this lot toward gay men. I wouldn't have been surprised if some racial antipathy had played a role given the self-segregation of this particular bunch, but I don't think that this would have had such a result on its own.

 

[lilithu]

Well, some black guys once attempted to throw a wastebasket over my head back in high school. They missed, of course, because they were ignorant, regardless of where they came from. However, I think that this might have been predominantly due to my perceived sexual orientation. We had a lot of Jamaican immigrants in the area, and there is a lot of unabashed spite among this lot toward gay men. I wouldn't have been surprised if some racial antipathy had played a role given the self-segregation of this particular bunch, but I don't think that this would have had such a result on its own.

One might think that, having been the target of oppression and knowing the anger that has made you feel, you might then have some greater insight and empathy for other marginalized groups... but I guess not.

 

[Mike182]

One might think that, having been the target of oppression and knowing the anger that has made you feel, you might then have some greater insight and empathy for other marginalized groups... but I guess not.

kinda like bullys were bullied themselves logic?

 

[!Fluffy!]

I've took crap most of my life for what I thought or believed. People who thought differently than me tried to label me or accuse me of hatred.

When I joined the military, I took crap about my haircut.
When I came home and let my hair grow, I took crap about that too.
When I became a Pagan and practiced Witchcraft, people said I was going to hell.
When I found Christ, people said I was a hypocrite.
When I became a Republican and started a business, people said a middle aged white guy must be homophobic or a racist or at the very least a sexist.
When it was time for me to hire people, I hired the most qualified people who applied.
The first employee I hired was a gay man. He had the most experience for the job and was the smartest guy I ever knew. He moved on to a bigger company now, but we still remain friends.
I hired women. They got paid more than some of the men who worked for me because they made me more money because they did more work.
At one time, I had more black employees than white. I evaluated each person honestly and paid them what they were worth to me. I have been fortunate to have good people working for me. Without them, I would be nothing.

I honestly believe I have never hated anyone in my life. I have disliked people before, but hate is such a strong word.

I need to quit rambling and get to my point. No matter what I do or what I believe, there is always someone who wants to profile who I am and saddle me with a label.

Now, I am a minister. I marry people. When I first came to this forum, someone asked me if I would marry a gay couple if it was legal to do so.

I had to think hard about that question because I did not want to give an answer without some thought. I deferred to the Bible. We all know that when I let the bible decide for me, I was instantly labeled a religious fanatic if not a down right Gay hater now.

Since then I have thought much more about this. If I really hated gay folks, why would I not condone their lifestyle and encourage them to marry? If I hated them, would I not take joy in them receiving God's wrath?

If I hated them, would I not go to their rallies and shout rude names? That's what you do when you hate right?

I was watching the news and some children in a religious group went to the town hall in California. They were heckled by Gay and Lesbian groups shouting profanities. Is this not hate and intolerance for the religious right?

I doubt the children would attend their rallies and do the same thing to them.

Why is it not possible for people to think or believe differently without labeling or verbally attacking them?

I'm surprised that you haven't learned Rule #1 in the arena of political correctness: we are to tolerate, defend and embrace the rights of every individual's lifestyle choice, opinion, religion, mores and politics EXCEPT conservatives and Christians. They are to be considered fair game because everybody knows they are intolerant bigots.

Silly pastor. Tsk, tsk.

 

[Flappycat]

One might think that, having been the target of oppression and knowing the anger that has made you feel, you might then have some greater insight and empathy for other marginalized groups... but I guess not.

I don't even grace such a primitive concept as race with acknowledgement. However, I'm not going to speak contrarily to facts simply because its connected with a touchy issue. Modern Jamaican culture actually is contaminated with rather insane levels of homophobia. They form mobs over it on a regular basis. It really is a screwed up situation, and I don't appreciate your vulgar insinuation that I've implicated their skin color for it. I want a retraction and an apology, and I want you to acknowledge the extreme graveness of charging someone with racism. I've been attacked in this way one time too many.

 

[Ðanisty]

I don't even grace such a primitive concept as race with acknowledgement. However, I'm not going to speak contrarily to facts simply because its connected with a touchy issue. Modern Jamaican culture actually is contaminated with rather insane levels of homophobia. They form mobs over it on a regular basis. It really is a screwed up situation, and I don't appreciate your vulgar insinuation that I've implicated their skin color for it. I want a retraction and an apology, and I want you to acknowledge the extreme graveness of charging someone with racism.

I've read about Jamaican homophobia before. It's really extreme.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't even grace such a primitive concept as race with acknowledgement. However, I'm not going to speak contrarily to facts simply because its connected with a touchy issue. Modern Jamaican culture actually is contaminated with rather insane levels of homophobia. They form mobs over it on a regular basis. It really is a screwed up situation, and I don't appreciate your vulgar insinuation that I've implicated their skin color for it. I want a retraction and an apology, and I want you to acknowledge the extreme graveness of charging someone with racism. I've been attacked in this way one time too many.

Gee, You know how that made you feel? That's exactly the same way I feel when I am called a hater. I may disagree with you, but I really hope that some day we might find some common ground.

 

[Flappycat]

Gee, You know how that made you feel? That's exactly the same way I feel when I am called a hater. I may disagree with you, but I really hope that some day we might find some common ground.

Don't you even dare. Lilithu's implicit charge really was baseless. This doesn't in the least clear you of the charge of bigotry or discrimination. And no, being a sensible employer doesn't help you, either. There are plenty who are willing to put aside their so-called morals for profit.

 

[McBell]

Why is there a need for anti-gay protest? That would be different with the gays as the hecklers. I cannot recall an event with anti-gay protesters. Maybe I just don't watch enough of the"news" to know what is going on. That, I don't think is such a bad thing.

Westboro Church Protesters Show Up at Soldier's Funeral in Maryland

Topeka Mayor Alerts Cities of Funeral Protests Despite Lawsuit Threat